Wednesday 13th July 2005

Is VW about to buy Lotus?

Rumours swirl after speech by top Proton advisor

---

VW Exige. Does that sound right?

Could VW become Lotus' next owner?

According a speech by a senior Proton man, reported in Autocar, the German giant could be about to take a controlling interest in Proton, Lotus' parent company. This much is hinted at with the manufacturing deals that VW already has with Proton in Malaysia by Proton advisor, Mahathir Mohamad.

Other reports suggest that Proton would be willing for VW to buy a stake in the company; Mitsubishi already owns some 18 per cent. Apparently, the biggest fear in Proton is that whomever buys the company might stop making Protons and make their own in the company's plants instead. Question is, would that be a great loss for the car industry?

Links

• Interview with Mahathir Mohamad
• More rumours

[a666j]

It's gotta be cheaper than vee-dub doing their own Elise as planned some time ago... apparently the boss liked his daughter's Lotus so much...

Could this be a way to improve Lotus 'quality'? Or will it mean the Elise is yet another Golf/A3/Leon/Octavia clone...?

[Tim Netherton]

Elise TDi anyone?

[cdp]

The next Elise won't have an alloy chassis. It will be made from 10mm boilerplate with a diesel locomotive engine hung out well ahead of the driven front wheels.

With regards to Proton, because Skoda have moved so far upmarket (and price) they don't have a budget brand anymore. In anycase loss of a maker is always a loss as it reduces competition, even if the cars are rather dull.

[pentoman]

So what could happen?

Platform sharing ("efficiency" might increase; but that would mean less bespoke machines and more conformity. How about the next Lotus being engineered to share a platform with the next Golf? I don't see how much that VW has (except money) will improve Lotuses.

Use of VW turbo engines? They're OK but far from ideal and not very fitting for a Lotus IMO.

VW narrow angle 2.8/3.2 V6 engine? This would work nicely in a small Lotus.

Improvements in quality would be nice too.

However IMO Lotus would be better being owned by, say, Toyota or Honda, as they understand making light, good to drive cars and aren't scared to make bespoke cars & engines (Honda S2000 anyone?).

Can you see a VW group company making an S2000, without seeing the extra possibilities in engineering it to allow the fitment of sat-nav, turbo diesel engines, skoda badges, and many other fattening things, ending up with a car 200kg heavier and invariably powered by the rather yawnful 1.8 or 2.0 turbo engines?


However that's what the bulk of consumers want (yes, blame ourselves!), and that tactic seems to work for building a brand, so it will probably help Lotus, if not those who like Lotuses how they are now.


Russell

[jackass]

I'd quite like an Elise TDI and an improvement in build quality is never a bad thing.

[horton]

an elise with DSG and gti turbo engine would be quite nice

[Wildfire]

But it would be another make to fall prey to the VAG machine.

[ubergreg]

And they can set up a Lifestyle Marketing Department to extend the reach of the brand, like they did with Bentley!

They could also restore hallowed names:
- Elan CC folding tin-top, based on the Golf platform
- a flagship 6.0L twin-turbo, W12, 4-wheel-drive Esprit with room for four adults, plus ABS, DSG, EBD, ESP, DSC, GDP and USB

I'll have mine in Teutonic Silver with 23" rims

[sturner]

Aren't we forgetting Lamborghini? By most accounts by far the most sorted, best built cars they've ever made have been under VAG's watch.

On the other hand - talk of a Bentley SUV (against Bentley boss' wishes) doesn't exactly reassure.

[r988]

sturner said:

Aren't we forgetting Lamborghini? By most accounts by far the most sorted, best built cars they've ever made have been under VAG's watch. On the other hand - talk of a Bentley SUV (against Bentley boss' wishes) doesn't exactly reassure.

Then again Lamborghinis were so poor that they couldn't really go anywhere but up

[Liteweight]

I see it as being a good thing for Lotus. VW has resources that lotus can only dream of now as well as a recent history of improving the brands they aquire with out compromising the basic core appeal. Look at both Lambo and Bentley. Both have had improvements in quality and reliability/driveability while staying true to the brand ethos. It would also be nice to see the Lotus engineers getting involved in the other VAG products. Maybe we could yet have an audi that properly challenges BMW in the handling stakes?

[Tuna]

Liteweight said:

It would also be nice to see the Lotus engineers getting involved in the other VAG products.

The way VAG works, it seems more likely that VAG engineers would get involved in the Lotus products

VAG build quality in by overengineering every component. Particularly with regards to things like the Golf, weight has gone through the roof in order to reach safety and reliability standards. How well that will work with Lambo's in the long term is still undecided - the ethos has changed (probably in tune with the times, but we'll see) in the new models. To me they seem to be closer to "what Audi engineers would do with a free reign" than "what Lambo engineers would do with a free engineering department".

Lotus is unique in the focus on low technology and low weight to maintain performance, and (relatively) low prices as a result. Whether VAG wants that, or just the halo effect of the badge would be the deciding factor. They may also be concerned with competition within the VAG group - Audi, Skoda, Seat and VW differentiate similar products with different styling. None of them are a leap ahead of the others in the marketplace. Put the proposed Elise coupe against the TT and that might upset the balance a bit.

[bunglist]

Talking of companies being bought by big multi national companies are the rumours true that TVR is up for sale from the russian and ford maybe looking to buy.

Has anyone else heard these rumours or is somebody feeding me a load of sE

[zebedee]

Tuna said:

Put the proposed Elise coupe against the TT and that might upset the balance a bit.

eh? what proposed elise coupe? the exige, which is already being built?

[Tuna]

zebedee said:

Tuna said: Put the proposed Elise coupe against the TT and that might upset the balance a bit. eh? what proposed elise coupe? the exige, which is already being built?

No the 'Lotus Europa' - currently gracing the front page of this week's Autocar magazine.

[cdp]

On the cover of Autocar they have a new "Europa". A slightly larger more comfortable Elise with hatchback for about 35K. They reckon it will have a Vauxhall 2L Turbo, so really it's based on the VX220 Turbo (IIRC that had a 4cm longer wheelbase).

I took a quick look on their website for a link but couldn't find one so I'm afraid you'll have to buy the magazine, like I did. It's well worth it.

[fire99]

Hi Guys,

please remember VW's build quality is nothing like it used to be and i have had personal experience (with friends) of the last of the MK4 Golf's having serious problems..

I also think the risk you have with a company like VAG owning Lotus is that it will start sharing too many components of the Existing VW line and will lose its uniqueness..

And to lose Proton would be yet more competition disappearing (regardless of quality) and do we want the worlds car market being owned by about 4 players??

[andy_b]

they arent new shots (just as the AC website says Autocar carries exclusive Saab 95 updated photos - I saw those a couple of weeks ago!)

see here:- www.carspyshots.net/zerothread?id=13332

[jackass]

fire99 said:

I also think the risk you have with a company like VAG owning Lotus is that it will start sharing too many components of the Existing VW line and will lose its uniqueness..

But Lotus steals its parts from other people parts bins anyway - they just all match now

[klassiekerrally]

www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=14&t=191946

>> Edited by klassiekerrally on Wednesday 13th July 16:46