Elise/Exige to Mk1 Elan
Discussion
I have lost of experience driving Elise S1/2`s in various forms, Exige V6`s and Evora`s...how does the original Elan compare in terms of fun and involvement...or are they just too different to make a comparison?
My preconception is they ride well, very light and nimble with typical Lotus steering feeback, very controllable at or above the limit, but may feel a little fragile.
My preconception is they ride well, very light and nimble with typical Lotus steering feeback, very controllable at or above the limit, but may feel a little fragile.
Frankly, if you like the later Lotus cars and the driving experience of a modern car then I suspect you'll be disappointed in the 60s Elan. Yes, they are great to drive, I love mine and will never sell it but you've got to remember they are 1960s cars. Although they must have been phenomenal back then, times and our expectations have changed.
If you want to drive around lanes, day trips or the odd track day then they're great but if you intend to use them daily, cold foggy mornings or motorway trips with lorries throwing spray all over, then not so much. Ok, the cars were made for daily use (and I've got that T shirt) but modern cars are way better at doing the job. Even the standard S1 Elise is more practical, goes faster, stops quicker, handles better and will even demist the front screen..... eventually.
Your preconceptions aren't that far out. In standard form they are softly sprung, light to drive and you feel you know what's happening at every corner; you are connected in a way that's hard to describe. I wouldn't say they are particularly fragile and with subtle changes (electric ignition, alternator, etc) they can be improved without spoiling that 60s experience. There are owners with starship mileages on their cars but the key is maintenance - these cars have grease points !
Whether you get an Elan or the Elan+2 you'll be wearing an ear to ear grin & feel like the car is flying along. But when you go round a bend and look at the speedo, you'll realise you could have been 10/20/whatever mph faster in your modern (90s onwards) Lotus. Great cars, love 'em but (IMO) it's tough to draw anything other than emotional comparisons.
If you want to drive around lanes, day trips or the odd track day then they're great but if you intend to use them daily, cold foggy mornings or motorway trips with lorries throwing spray all over, then not so much. Ok, the cars were made for daily use (and I've got that T shirt) but modern cars are way better at doing the job. Even the standard S1 Elise is more practical, goes faster, stops quicker, handles better and will even demist the front screen..... eventually.
Your preconceptions aren't that far out. In standard form they are softly sprung, light to drive and you feel you know what's happening at every corner; you are connected in a way that's hard to describe. I wouldn't say they are particularly fragile and with subtle changes (electric ignition, alternator, etc) they can be improved without spoiling that 60s experience. There are owners with starship mileages on their cars but the key is maintenance - these cars have grease points !
Whether you get an Elan or the Elan+2 you'll be wearing an ear to ear grin & feel like the car is flying along. But when you go round a bend and look at the speedo, you'll realise you could have been 10/20/whatever mph faster in your modern (90s onwards) Lotus. Great cars, love 'em but (IMO) it's tough to draw anything other than emotional comparisons.
Modern Lotus are far too wide & heavy to replicate any 60's lotus, on decent B roads no elise can keep up with my 1970 Lotus7 they're simply NOT agile enough.
on A roads and motorways the modern lotus cars are much bettter, and my 7 is an also ran
Times change and what was awesome in 60's & early 70's now seems lost in time for today's drivers - but on a decent 'B' road try to catch a well driven old car - but watch out for the ditches they love swallowing up your nice new fat/wide/heavy Lotus
on A roads and motorways the modern lotus cars are much bettter, and my 7 is an also ran
Times change and what was awesome in 60's & early 70's now seems lost in time for today's drivers - but on a decent 'B' road try to catch a well driven old car - but watch out for the ditches they love swallowing up your nice new fat/wide/heavy Lotus
Maybe I can comment as I've got a 69 Elan, 03 Esprit V8 and an Exige S2 (bought standard but which has evolved to a (kind of) road legal time attack machine.
The Elan has a steering feel that is hard to describe, its amazingly direct, gives incomparable feedback and has a very fast ratio. It is also VERY slow compared to even an Elise S1, however it incites you into a flowing style of driving rather than nailing the throttle and loading it up in the corners. That said, driving it is sublime, although you're going to have to make peace with the fact that you'll be dealing with 70's brakes and small tires, which mean much lower limits, but much easier to have fun with at rational speeds. I would never consider taking a classic Elan on track unless it was a 26R spec/prepped for the occasion which would destroy its day to day drivability (fouling plugs, running hot etc).
The Esprit feels (and is) heavier compared to both, and is more of a GT. It exceeds all expectations comfort wise bar the fact that it lacks a 6th gear for motorway cruising. The latter year cars are more pricy, but worthwhile the investment as they're the ones which had the issues the earlier models suffered from sorted. It's hard to hustle it in twisty roads, and the gear change is as bad as they say it is, slow and precise is the only way to make it work. That said, it delivers huge torque (with a remap, air filter and sports exhaust) and can be best describes as a bazooka. Exit corner, point, shoot, brake, take apex and repeat on exit.
The Exige on the other hand is a sniper rifle. The limits rest firmly with the driver's talents, and the limited power output of the standard engine. Feedback is direct and you can place the car in the apex with telepathic precision. Mess up or hesitate though and it will bite you, and although I've only spun it twice (on track) there's no catching it once it goes. At 430 BHP at the wheels, mine still feels like the chassis can handle more power, yet even in standard spec you need to load up the corners properly and 'take a set' if you're going to explore its handling. Handled too gently it feels 'washy' and underwhelming. It's also a b
d to live with as a daily unless you simply commute to work and back in no traffic.
As an aside, I'd think it would be mad to use an Elan as a daily, while beautiful and sublime to drive on occasion, nostalgia tends to make us forget how much cars have improved over the past decades.
The Elan has a steering feel that is hard to describe, its amazingly direct, gives incomparable feedback and has a very fast ratio. It is also VERY slow compared to even an Elise S1, however it incites you into a flowing style of driving rather than nailing the throttle and loading it up in the corners. That said, driving it is sublime, although you're going to have to make peace with the fact that you'll be dealing with 70's brakes and small tires, which mean much lower limits, but much easier to have fun with at rational speeds. I would never consider taking a classic Elan on track unless it was a 26R spec/prepped for the occasion which would destroy its day to day drivability (fouling plugs, running hot etc).
The Esprit feels (and is) heavier compared to both, and is more of a GT. It exceeds all expectations comfort wise bar the fact that it lacks a 6th gear for motorway cruising. The latter year cars are more pricy, but worthwhile the investment as they're the ones which had the issues the earlier models suffered from sorted. It's hard to hustle it in twisty roads, and the gear change is as bad as they say it is, slow and precise is the only way to make it work. That said, it delivers huge torque (with a remap, air filter and sports exhaust) and can be best describes as a bazooka. Exit corner, point, shoot, brake, take apex and repeat on exit.
The Exige on the other hand is a sniper rifle. The limits rest firmly with the driver's talents, and the limited power output of the standard engine. Feedback is direct and you can place the car in the apex with telepathic precision. Mess up or hesitate though and it will bite you, and although I've only spun it twice (on track) there's no catching it once it goes. At 430 BHP at the wheels, mine still feels like the chassis can handle more power, yet even in standard spec you need to load up the corners properly and 'take a set' if you're going to explore its handling. Handled too gently it feels 'washy' and underwhelming. It's also a b
d to live with as a daily unless you simply commute to work and back in no traffic.As an aside, I'd think it would be mad to use an Elan as a daily, while beautiful and sublime to drive on occasion, nostalgia tends to make us forget how much cars have improved over the past decades.
I have the two opposite ends of the spectrum, an Elan 26R and a Lotus Motorsport Elise (the race derived version of the S1 Exige, with central seat, and now Hewland sequential and Duratec 2.3).
Equally rewarding but in completely different ways! When the Elan gets to 'retirement', I will convert to road use and it will be a great pub run car but nothing more than that really.
I drove a friend's Elan and felt really exposed with the roof down on the M25, where even normal cars tower above you. It was still enormous fun though. It wasn't quick, but you have the exhaust to play a tune with as you heel-and-toe down the gears, and there is a surprising amount of grip (and roll!) for what is an old car.
They are too far removed to start saying senitmental things like "you can tell there is a blood line", because they are two completely different propositions. But as a pure Summer 3rd car, I would go for an Elan over an Elise/Exige personally.
Equally rewarding but in completely different ways! When the Elan gets to 'retirement', I will convert to road use and it will be a great pub run car but nothing more than that really.
I drove a friend's Elan and felt really exposed with the roof down on the M25, where even normal cars tower above you. It was still enormous fun though. It wasn't quick, but you have the exhaust to play a tune with as you heel-and-toe down the gears, and there is a surprising amount of grip (and roll!) for what is an old car.
They are too far removed to start saying senitmental things like "you can tell there is a blood line", because they are two completely different propositions. But as a pure Summer 3rd car, I would go for an Elan over an Elise/Exige personally.
Interesting comments. I've gone back to an Elan (s4) after several Elise (and variants).
For me it was the handling fun I get at 'sensible' road speeds. Outright speed, in my mind, does not mean FUN.
I found in the Elise' (ditto 911's and other moderns), that the fun factor was only there at frankly stupid, selfish road speeds.
Then on track although Elises are faster and handle beautifully, the grip and tyre combinations made faster lap times but again simply not as much FUN:
In Elans, on their narrow tyres its quite easy to do glorious 4 wheel drifts, with good control.
Whilst I'm sure folk with Hamiltonesque car control skill might do the same, in an Elise/Exige at much higher speeds, I found pulling similar moves gave sweaty palms and very fast approaching barriers - and, at least for me, just not as much fun.
For me it was the handling fun I get at 'sensible' road speeds. Outright speed, in my mind, does not mean FUN.
I found in the Elise' (ditto 911's and other moderns), that the fun factor was only there at frankly stupid, selfish road speeds.
Then on track although Elises are faster and handle beautifully, the grip and tyre combinations made faster lap times but again simply not as much FUN:
In Elans, on their narrow tyres its quite easy to do glorious 4 wheel drifts, with good control.
Whilst I'm sure folk with Hamiltonesque car control skill might do the same, in an Elise/Exige at much higher speeds, I found pulling similar moves gave sweaty palms and very fast approaching barriers - and, at least for me, just not as much fun.
Edited by Mark77a on Wednesday 1st April 19:30
thelostboy said:
They are too far removed to start saying sentimental things like "you can tell there is a blood line", because they are two completely different propositions.
I'd agree with this (I've owned two Elises, and four Elans/Plus 2's over the years).The steering feel is better on the Elise, and obviously it has much higher cornering and braking limits.
The Elan has much better gearchange. That of the Elise is frankly awful in comparison.
The straight line performance isn't as different as you might think, on the lower-powered Elise variants (especially given that many Elans have now been upgraded to 145bhp 'Sprint Plus' spec. on QED420 cams, or simillar). A well-tuned Twin Cam engine will actually feel a lot 'gutsier' (torquier) than an unsupercharged Elise-variant, due to being 8 valve. Modern 16-valves have a much more linear and anodyne power delivery. A well-driven Elan can still keep up with the lower-powered Elise variants on public roads.
The Elan's handling feels much 'softer', though, due to much more compliance in the tyre walls and lower levels of damping (as standard).
Elans are undeniably very fragile, and need constant pampering. Elises (in my experience) are very reliable indeed.
I'd agree with virtually everything above. Since 1975 I've owned classic Elans, Europa Twin Cam, +2, M100 Elans and an Elise S2. They've all been great in their own way, sadly I had to sell my Elise last year due to difficulty getting out but I've still got the M100 after 21 years.
My Elise was only the 1.8 S but a brilliant driving machine, totally reliable in the four years I owned it. The gearchange was ok but nowhere near as good as the classic Elan.
I owned my second classic Elan for eight years. As soon as I bought it my mechanic mate went right through it and once sorted it was totally reliable and only needed normal routine servicing.
As I don't do as much driving nowadays as I used to I'm having thoughts about changing my Boxster (competent but a bit dull) for a classic Elan but I must admit the fragility is an issue for me.
My Elise was only the 1.8 S but a brilliant driving machine, totally reliable in the four years I owned it. The gearchange was ok but nowhere near as good as the classic Elan.
I owned my second classic Elan for eight years. As soon as I bought it my mechanic mate went right through it and once sorted it was totally reliable and only needed normal routine servicing.
As I don't do as much driving nowadays as I used to I'm having thoughts about changing my Boxster (competent but a bit dull) for a classic Elan but I must admit the fragility is an issue for me.
Nyloc20 said:
I'd agree with virtually everything above. Since 1975 I've owned classic Elans, Europa Twin Cam, +2, M100 Elans and an Elise S2. They've all been great in their own way, sadly I had to sell my Elise last year due to difficulty getting out but I've still got the M100 after 21 years.
My Elise was only the 1.8 S but a brilliant driving machine, totally reliable in the four years I owned it. The gearchange was ok but nowhere near as good as the classic Elan.
I owned my second classic Elan for eight years. As soon as I bought it my mechanic mate went right through it and once sorted it was totally reliable and only needed normal routine servicing.
As I don't do as much driving nowadays as I used to I'm having thoughts about changing my Boxster (competent but a bit dull) for a classic Elan but I must admit the fragility is an issue for me.
I noticed this thread while looking for something else so might as well update it following recent developments.My Elise was only the 1.8 S but a brilliant driving machine, totally reliable in the four years I owned it. The gearchange was ok but nowhere near as good as the classic Elan.
I owned my second classic Elan for eight years. As soon as I bought it my mechanic mate went right through it and once sorted it was totally reliable and only needed normal routine servicing.
As I don't do as much driving nowadays as I used to I'm having thoughts about changing my Boxster (competent but a bit dull) for a classic Elan but I must admit the fragility is an issue for me.
I did sell the Boxster, good car for long distance cruising but lots I didn’t like about it. Due to the buoyant market and the cars spec and condition I hardly lost anything in 18 months which was a bonus.
I bought a Fiesta ST Line for running around locally, absolutely love it, I’d be happy to do long journeys in it but my wife’s Focus will be better suited.
Then during a chance telephone chat with a long time mate in our local Lotus club it turned out he was thinking of selling his Elan Sprint so it’s now at my mechanic mate for a check over and should be in my garage for the weekend. Happy days!
Nyloc20 said:
snip...Elan Sprint so it’s now at my mechanic mate for a check over and should be in my garage for the weekend. Happy days!
Good job!I've got an Elan GTS race car and will one day have an Elan road car I'm sure. The GTS is absolutely astonishing. Magnificently quick with its 190bhp motor (which is a bit fragile - I'm trying to get more than one race per engine rebuild!), but super agile and sideways like it was going out of fashion.
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