Tyres for your classic Lotus
Discussion
Initially I asked this Q in the PH 'Classic car' section but didn't really get any useful replies. Most people who use this tyre size appear to never use their cars performance
so never really got to experience what the cars drove/handled like on the roads with these modern tyres fitted - [at least thats my impression based on the answers in that thread] that's not being negative - but the replies didn't answer my original post Q's?
The tyres I've used for last 16 years on my 1970 Lotus 7 have recently become unavailable - hence these threads. the tyres in Q were the awesome Yokohama Ao21R in 185/70x13" size which was a perfect tyre for my cars handling & performance.
After a lot of research online its clear that modern tyres in this size are manufactured differently to those that were made during 1970's [see proof in pics below] - hence the current problems when using modern tyres on my 1970 Lotus 7 and then attempting to use the cars full performance.
After the original thread I was contacted by a PH'er - who had several NOS of the Yoko's for sale [which I bought - many thanks Richard C
] so at least for now my problems have been solved, however during my online research I came up with a couple of possible alternatives:-
1. Another option for some cars may include using the much smaller radius185/60x13" - fitted to some modern Caterhams, however the tyre radius is signifcantly lower which reduces the ground clearance enough on my car to smash the sump pan [I've done this twice using 60 section tyres - see photo of the tyre size differential] - so for me this option is a no go.
>Tyre size differences:-
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2. Use Pirelli Cinturato CN36 or Blockley's radials - both of which appear to be manufactured to suit the Lightweight sportscars of the 1970's [at least that's what the online writeup would have you believe with different [oldstyle] tyre carcasses featuring 'rounded' tread corners being used on these tyres] - Can anyone comment on either of these tyres performance whilst using your cars full performance potential - especially related to cornering behavior/grip, and importantly what car were they used on?
>Pirelli & Blockleys
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The Lotus 7 is a performance car, correct tyres are essential - IMO modern designed tyres ain't it, if you fit modern tyres to your Lotus 7 [and probably 1970's Elan's & Europa's] be aware of the possible consequences. Surely other PH'ers have had similar problems??
Rene
so never really got to experience what the cars drove/handled like on the roads with these modern tyres fitted - [at least thats my impression based on the answers in that thread] that's not being negative - but the replies didn't answer my original post Q's?The tyres I've used for last 16 years on my 1970 Lotus 7 have recently become unavailable - hence these threads. the tyres in Q were the awesome Yokohama Ao21R in 185/70x13" size which was a perfect tyre for my cars handling & performance.
After a lot of research online its clear that modern tyres in this size are manufactured differently to those that were made during 1970's [see proof in pics below] - hence the current problems when using modern tyres on my 1970 Lotus 7 and then attempting to use the cars full performance.
After the original thread I was contacted by a PH'er - who had several NOS of the Yoko's for sale [which I bought - many thanks Richard C
] so at least for now my problems have been solved, however during my online research I came up with a couple of possible alternatives:-1. Another option for some cars may include using the much smaller radius185/60x13" - fitted to some modern Caterhams, however the tyre radius is signifcantly lower which reduces the ground clearance enough on my car to smash the sump pan [I've done this twice using 60 section tyres - see photo of the tyre size differential] - so for me this option is a no go.
>Tyre size differences:-
>
>
>
>
2. Use Pirelli Cinturato CN36 or Blockley's radials - both of which appear to be manufactured to suit the Lightweight sportscars of the 1970's [at least that's what the online writeup would have you believe with different [oldstyle] tyre carcasses featuring 'rounded' tread corners being used on these tyres] - Can anyone comment on either of these tyres performance whilst using your cars full performance potential - especially related to cornering behavior/grip, and importantly what car were they used on?
>Pirelli & Blockleys
>
>
>
>
>
The Lotus 7 is a performance car, correct tyres are essential - IMO modern designed tyres ain't it, if you fit modern tyres to your Lotus 7 [and probably 1970's Elan's & Europa's] be aware of the possible consequences. Surely other PH'ers have had similar problems??
Rene
If you want something period in tread and profile Michelin XAS are the way to go and a lot of the Classic Elan boys are using them. Very expensive however.
Saying that I use modern Cinturatos on my Elan +2 and they are great and not expensive
I used to use Toyo R888 on my Caterham - brilliant in the dry but lethal in wet/standing water.
Check out Longstone Tyres if you're after a 'period' tyre
Saying that I use modern Cinturatos on my Elan +2 and they are great and not expensive
I used to use Toyo R888 on my Caterham - brilliant in the dry but lethal in wet/standing water.
Check out Longstone Tyres if you're after a 'period' tyre
Lotobear
Longstone for period tyres - maybe but do those 'PERIOD' tyres work like tyres of years ago did or do they merely look like they use to??
Its Interesting - Michelin XAS have never been mentioned. Like the Pirelli CN36 Cinturato's I'd call them 'Normal' type road tyres, whether they are made to the same standards and behave like 1970's manufactured tyres when fitted to my car is questionable? Also you mentioned they are V expensive, IF they are suitable of course the £ price is a secondary consideration, However I owned a similar Lotus7, which I bought new and built from the kit in 1971. I did 56K miles in that car in 5 years [it was my only car at the time] and I only bought 2 sets of tyres plus the new set of Goodyear G800's which came with the car during the time I owned it!! So I think it's fair&reasonable to say 1970's tyres were infinitely superior to todays offerings, they had enough grip and lasted at least 20K miles/set. This is the point I can't understand - why are today's tyres so poor in comparison?? Today's regular/normal 'DITCHFINDER' 185/70x13" tyres simply don't work on my car [ the Yokohamas I mentioned and shown in photo were awesome for grip - they lasted about 3000/miles set] 1400miles on rear & 4.5Kmiles or so on front But at £45/corner they were a bargain for such a great tyre - the Cinturato's at £135/corner and the Blockleys at £84/corner are expensive in comparison, especially if/when they are not as good as the Yoko's?? I'm reluctant to buy a set of either if I have to bin them after the first use [because they have no grip] and make my car impossible to drive like Lotus intended it to be driven.
Has anyone tried them or the Michelin XAS on a Lotus or other lightweight sportscar?
Clearly it's possible for todays manufacturers to produce good tyres for lightweight cars [the Yoko's prove this] - Why don't they??
Longstone for period tyres - maybe but do those 'PERIOD' tyres work like tyres of years ago did or do they merely look like they use to??
Its Interesting - Michelin XAS have never been mentioned. Like the Pirelli CN36 Cinturato's I'd call them 'Normal' type road tyres, whether they are made to the same standards and behave like 1970's manufactured tyres when fitted to my car is questionable? Also you mentioned they are V expensive, IF they are suitable of course the £ price is a secondary consideration, However I owned a similar Lotus7, which I bought new and built from the kit in 1971. I did 56K miles in that car in 5 years [it was my only car at the time] and I only bought 2 sets of tyres plus the new set of Goodyear G800's which came with the car during the time I owned it!! So I think it's fair&reasonable to say 1970's tyres were infinitely superior to todays offerings, they had enough grip and lasted at least 20K miles/set. This is the point I can't understand - why are today's tyres so poor in comparison?? Today's regular/normal 'DITCHFINDER' 185/70x13" tyres simply don't work on my car [ the Yokohamas I mentioned and shown in photo were awesome for grip - they lasted about 3000/miles set] 1400miles on rear & 4.5Kmiles or so on front But at £45/corner they were a bargain for such a great tyre - the Cinturato's at £135/corner and the Blockleys at £84/corner are expensive in comparison, especially if/when they are not as good as the Yoko's?? I'm reluctant to buy a set of either if I have to bin them after the first use [because they have no grip] and make my car impossible to drive like Lotus intended it to be driven.
Has anyone tried them or the Michelin XAS on a Lotus or other lightweight sportscar?
Clearly it's possible for todays manufacturers to produce good tyres for lightweight cars [the Yoko's prove this] - Why don't they??
XAS are made specifically for period performance cars, to reproduce the original characteristic of the OEM equipment. They are a serious performance tyre not a 'period pastiche'
They are used extensively by Lotus Elan drivers but they do cost almost £200 each which is a lot for a 165 x 13 tyre!
...'reassuringly expensive', to borrow the old Stella Artois strapline
PS: or fit a dry sump system!
They are used extensively by Lotus Elan drivers but they do cost almost £200 each which is a lot for a 165 x 13 tyre!
...'reassuringly expensive', to borrow the old Stella Artois strapline
PS: or fit a dry sump system!
Edited by Lotobear on Friday 26th April 16:00
Interesting discussion re suitable tyres for a S3 Lotus 7. Unlike lots of people I've never really been a massive fan of the Yokohamas, yes they produce good lap times but they can't compare to the feel of the car compared to an L or M section Dunlop crossply on track. A lot of sevens were fitted with the Goodyear NCT in the eighties and nineties, which were probably fine for a Golf GTI but not a lightweight car like the Seven.The best tyres I've experienced have been Bridgestone Potenza RE720 (are they still available), I preferred them to the AVON CR500 and they looked more suitable on an older car. If I was having to purchase a new set I would be considering Avon CR6ZZ, Michelin TB15 or Michelin XASFF. The Michelins are expensive but the XAS would last a long time on a light car like a 7 and don't seem to suffer from age cracking to the same degree as certain other brands. While I like the look of the crossply Blockley I don't think the radial tyre looks nearly as nice.
Probably not relevant but its a rare memory that sticks with me. I owned a Dolly Sprint back in the Late 80s through the 90s and it had Pirelli Cinturatos fitted in the 180/70x13 size, unlikely they are the same as any tyre with the same name produced today, but by god they were the worst tyres I ever had the misfortune to run on the sprint. Mine was tweaked a tad and used to scare 205GTis when given the opportunity and on decent rubber. The Cinuratos just understeered on corner entry then oversteered on exit. I think the good rubber I used is now NLA , I had a fondness for Colway Tarmac road rally rubber but treat those Pirellis as touring last option only until proven otherwise imo.
for the early Elan Pirelli now make a 145R13 CA67 which is perfect. The car will feel so nimble again if you take off something modern and oversized.
For most standard sizes Michelin make an XAS 155R13 and 165R13. They are fantastic.
These little light weight cars handle best on thin nimble tyres, and importantly period carcasses which are designed to compliment the chassis compared to modern more numb cumbersome tyre carcass design which are designed to work in a different enviroment. so if you are going to go larger Pirelli also now make the CN36 which is epic on '60s and '70s cars giving you more contact but still remaining progressive. https://www.lucasclassictires.com/175-70VR13-PIREL...
if you want to fit modern tyres for racing or because they are cheap you have to add advers camber and stiffen the springs etc to get any benefit, which of course compromises the car for road use. the race track is a wholey different enviroment. you cannot drive anything like you do on the track on the road.
For most standard sizes Michelin make an XAS 155R13 and 165R13. They are fantastic.
These little light weight cars handle best on thin nimble tyres, and importantly period carcasses which are designed to compliment the chassis compared to modern more numb cumbersome tyre carcass design which are designed to work in a different enviroment. so if you are going to go larger Pirelli also now make the CN36 which is epic on '60s and '70s cars giving you more contact but still remaining progressive. https://www.lucasclassictires.com/175-70VR13-PIREL...
if you want to fit modern tyres for racing or because they are cheap you have to add advers camber and stiffen the springs etc to get any benefit, which of course compromises the car for road use. the race track is a wholey different enviroment. you cannot drive anything like you do on the track on the road.
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