Elan +2 or Excel?
Discussion
I've owned an Excel (briefly around 2012, it wasn't a pleasant experience due to damp damage inside) but drove nicely if a little underpowered.
I've owned an S4 (baby) Elan (in 1988) and again not the best experience as it seemed to keep falling apart (ending up with a collapsed chassis).
(I've also owned an S2 Seven (totally rebuilt it back in the 1980's).
Keep looking at the 4 seater route to replace the TVR I currently run and whist I see asking prices for both the Excel and the Elan +2 rising (TVR isn't) I wonder if either would be a good option. Would need to be able to use it regularly not just sunny days to a car show and experience with a leaky Excel and a rusty chassis Elan make me wonder if I'm in cloud cuckoo land.
The Excel is possibly the more practical, larger and galv chassis but my old one leaked badly. The Elan might be water tight but it's older, possibly more fragile and so dwarfed by these stupid big 4x4 things on the road I'd worry about it's safety and worry about parking it in a Tesco car park now and again in case it got damaged. (Talking dwarfed by modern, I also have a Caterham)
Any thoughts from people who have owned either, or both?
I've owned an S4 (baby) Elan (in 1988) and again not the best experience as it seemed to keep falling apart (ending up with a collapsed chassis).
(I've also owned an S2 Seven (totally rebuilt it back in the 1980's).
Keep looking at the 4 seater route to replace the TVR I currently run and whist I see asking prices for both the Excel and the Elan +2 rising (TVR isn't) I wonder if either would be a good option. Would need to be able to use it regularly not just sunny days to a car show and experience with a leaky Excel and a rusty chassis Elan make me wonder if I'm in cloud cuckoo land.
The Excel is possibly the more practical, larger and galv chassis but my old one leaked badly. The Elan might be water tight but it's older, possibly more fragile and so dwarfed by these stupid big 4x4 things on the road I'd worry about it's safety and worry about parking it in a Tesco car park now and again in case it got damaged. (Talking dwarfed by modern, I also have a Caterham)
Any thoughts from people who have owned either, or both?
I can only add that my Dad ran an Elan+2 a couple of years ago and even though it went through quite an extensive restoration process it still didn't fill my Dad (or me) with any confidence. Lotuses of that era will always be problematic so I'd say you might not be in cloud cuckooland just yet but you're definitely flying close 
I've owned an Excel SE for 16 years and never had a serious problem. It's never let me down such that I needed a tow back home.
It's dry(!), reliable, and fun - fast enough for most roads, although compared to modern hot hatches it will show its age.
In each of the last 3 years I've done summer tours of France, taking in the Pau and Dijon classics, without any problem. A number of people on www.lotusexcel.net use theirs as a daily drive.
The Excel is a great car, and fantastic value. You can buy a good one for £10,000.
It's dry(!), reliable, and fun - fast enough for most roads, although compared to modern hot hatches it will show its age.
In each of the last 3 years I've done summer tours of France, taking in the Pau and Dijon classics, without any problem. A number of people on www.lotusexcel.net use theirs as a daily drive.
The Excel is a great car, and fantastic value. You can buy a good one for £10,000.
Thanks to both of you for your honest answers.
My Excel stunk inside having been stood outside for too long before I bought it. Could not get rid of the smell which transferred to your clothes in minutes. Leather on dash was peeling and it was generally horrible to be in. That said the gearbox was the nicest I've used in 48 years of driving. Thought it was in need of a few more horses though.
The Elan I had was one that had been cobbled together I suspect as it had a later reg on it than it should. Gorgeous to look at, it drew attention everywhere but was continually in a state of not quite there, due partially to the bodges of previous owners I have to admit. When the front turret folded in I gave up and sold it. I think an Elan would be a mistake, except possibly for the free tax & no MoT required bit. I'd constantly worry about leaving it anywhere and worry too about chassis corrosion. I have however heard of Excels with chassis rust too, so although galvanised they can rot.
There's a +2 come up for sale about an hour from me (there's not a lot only an hour from me in Oban) and this is what sparked the question.
My Excel stunk inside having been stood outside for too long before I bought it. Could not get rid of the smell which transferred to your clothes in minutes. Leather on dash was peeling and it was generally horrible to be in. That said the gearbox was the nicest I've used in 48 years of driving. Thought it was in need of a few more horses though.
The Elan I had was one that had been cobbled together I suspect as it had a later reg on it than it should. Gorgeous to look at, it drew attention everywhere but was continually in a state of not quite there, due partially to the bodges of previous owners I have to admit. When the front turret folded in I gave up and sold it. I think an Elan would be a mistake, except possibly for the free tax & no MoT required bit. I'd constantly worry about leaving it anywhere and worry too about chassis corrosion. I have however heard of Excels with chassis rust too, so although galvanised they can rot.
There's a +2 come up for sale about an hour from me (there's not a lot only an hour from me in Oban) and this is what sparked the question.
If you thought that the Excel was lacking in horsepower, you'll definitely be disappointed with the Plus 2, especially if you're used to the torque of the Chimp (I owned a Griffith 500 for a while, and while I personally loathed the thing and wouldn't go near another TVR, I have to admit that the straight-line performance was in another league altogether).
Forget the fanboi owners who try to tell you that the Plus 2 is nearly as quick as the 2-seater Elan. It isn't (I've owned two of each): it is a much bigger, significantly heavier car and so is both slower and less nimble. As what is basically an Elan with extra weight (so extra strain on components) and more complicated electrics, and in some examples a very dodgy 5-speed gearbox (avoid these at all costs!), it's even more fragile and temperamental than the 2 seater.
The Elan/Plus 2 is a wonderful car, and I love them to bits, but you need to be a real enthusiast to run one even as a weekend car.
Ironically, the one thing you probably don't need to worry about any more is chassis rust. Fatigue cracks, yes (around the engine fork and more especially the differential torque rod mounts - particularly if it's been converted to solid driveshafts), rust, no. Almost all have had replacement chassis by now, and have lead sheltered lives since, even if those chassis weren't galvanised or one of the powder coated Spyder spaceframe jobs.
I actually think that the Grimaera generation TVR's will out-appreciate the Excel in the very near future (and I reiterate that I say that as someone with no love for them whatsoever - just a degree of pragmatic realism), so I'd seriously consider hanging on to the Chimp, unless you're desperate for 4 seats, to be honest.
Forget the fanboi owners who try to tell you that the Plus 2 is nearly as quick as the 2-seater Elan. It isn't (I've owned two of each): it is a much bigger, significantly heavier car and so is both slower and less nimble. As what is basically an Elan with extra weight (so extra strain on components) and more complicated electrics, and in some examples a very dodgy 5-speed gearbox (avoid these at all costs!), it's even more fragile and temperamental than the 2 seater.
The Elan/Plus 2 is a wonderful car, and I love them to bits, but you need to be a real enthusiast to run one even as a weekend car.
Ironically, the one thing you probably don't need to worry about any more is chassis rust. Fatigue cracks, yes (around the engine fork and more especially the differential torque rod mounts - particularly if it's been converted to solid driveshafts), rust, no. Almost all have had replacement chassis by now, and have lead sheltered lives since, even if those chassis weren't galvanised or one of the powder coated Spyder spaceframe jobs.
I actually think that the Grimaera generation TVR's will out-appreciate the Excel in the very near future (and I reiterate that I say that as someone with no love for them whatsoever - just a degree of pragmatic realism), so I'd seriously consider hanging on to the Chimp, unless you're desperate for 4 seats, to be honest.
Equus said:
If you thought that the Excel was lacking in horsepower, you'll definitely be disappointed with the Plus 2, especially if you're used to the torque of the Chimp (I owned a Griffith 500 for a while, and while I personally loathed the thing and wouldn't go near another TVR, I have to admit that the straight-line performance was in another league altogether).
Forget the fanboi owners who try to tell you that the Plus 2 is nearly as quick as the 2-seater Elan. It isn't (I've owned two of each): it is a much bigger, significantly heavier car and so is both slower and less nimble. As what is basically an Elan with extra weight (so extra strain on components) and more complicated electrics, and in some examples a very dodgy 5-speed gearbox (avoid these at all costs!), it's even more fragile and temperamental than the 2 seater.
The Elan/Plus 2 is a wonderful car, and I love them to bits, but you need to be a real enthusiast to run one even as a weekend car.
Ironically, the one thing you probably don't need to worry about any more is chassis rust. Fatigue cracks, yes (around the engine fork and more especially the differential torque rod mounts - particularly if it's been converted to solid driveshafts), rust, no. Almost all have had replacement chassis by now, and have lead sheltered lives since, even if those chassis weren't galvanised or one of the powder coated Spyder spaceframe jobs.
I actually think that the Grimaera generation TVR's will out-appreciate the Excel in the very near future (and I reiterate that I say that as someone with no love for them whatsoever - just a degree of pragmatic realism), so I'd seriously consider hanging on to the Chimp, unless you're desperate for 4 seats, to be honest.
Interesting comments and probably covers most of my thoughts although I don't use all the V8 torque much anymore.....Forget the fanboi owners who try to tell you that the Plus 2 is nearly as quick as the 2-seater Elan. It isn't (I've owned two of each): it is a much bigger, significantly heavier car and so is both slower and less nimble. As what is basically an Elan with extra weight (so extra strain on components) and more complicated electrics, and in some examples a very dodgy 5-speed gearbox (avoid these at all costs!), it's even more fragile and temperamental than the 2 seater.
The Elan/Plus 2 is a wonderful car, and I love them to bits, but you need to be a real enthusiast to run one even as a weekend car.
Ironically, the one thing you probably don't need to worry about any more is chassis rust. Fatigue cracks, yes (around the engine fork and more especially the differential torque rod mounts - particularly if it's been converted to solid driveshafts), rust, no. Almost all have had replacement chassis by now, and have lead sheltered lives since, even if those chassis weren't galvanised or one of the powder coated Spyder spaceframe jobs.
I actually think that the Grimaera generation TVR's will out-appreciate the Excel in the very near future (and I reiterate that I say that as someone with no love for them whatsoever - just a degree of pragmatic realism), so I'd seriously consider hanging on to the Chimp, unless you're desperate for 4 seats, to be honest.
I’ve had experience of baby and +2 Elan ownership in the distant past and would echo all the above.
Similarly I’ve just moved on from a TVR but only needed 2 seats, hence a rally spec. Lancia Fulvia Coupe. If you want 4 seats and reasonable solidity dare I suggest a Scimitar GTE or a Gilbern or - as this is a Lotus forum - a Sunbeam Lotus.
Similarly I’ve just moved on from a TVR but only needed 2 seats, hence a rally spec. Lancia Fulvia Coupe. If you want 4 seats and reasonable solidity dare I suggest a Scimitar GTE or a Gilbern or - as this is a Lotus forum - a Sunbeam Lotus.
moffspeed said:
I’ve had experience of baby and +2 Elan ownership in the distant past and would echo all the above.
Similarly I’ve just moved on from a TVR but only needed 2 seats, hence a rally spec. Lancia Fulvia Coupe. If you want 4 seats and reasonable solidity dare I suggest a Scimitar GTE or a Gilbern or - as this is a Lotus forum - a Sunbeam Lotus.
Funnily enough I had a Fulvia way back then too. Paid £190 for it, painted it red (in plant enamel, it was blue) and ragged it ridiculously for months until I burnt a valve. Head off, new valve off I went again. Lovely piece of machinery if a little prone to rust. Oft thought it would still do well in the up to 1400 class (roadgoing).Similarly I’ve just moved on from a TVR but only needed 2 seats, hence a rally spec. Lancia Fulvia Coupe. If you want 4 seats and reasonable solidity dare I suggest a Scimitar GTE or a Gilbern or - as this is a Lotus forum - a Sunbeam Lotus.
GTE deoesn't do it for me, although a GTC would. I have a Volvo 940 Estate which is better in most aspects than a GTE.
Gilbern looks lovely, especially the S3 Invader, Know someone who has had his since the 1970's!
Lotus Sunbeam another favourite but prices are following Escorts! (I also had a 1 litre Sunbeam for a while in the 1980's)
OP,
As a Plus 2 owner, I would say that they are a very practical and undervalued classic with a fantastic chassis - not as 'darty' as an Elan but with lovely neutral handling characteristics and a very comfortable and compliant ride (almost modern in feel). Not as quick as an Elan but neither are they slow - however the less frenetic feel suits the 'mini GT' vibe of the car. Paul Matty's favourite classic Lotus - he rates them over the Elan due to their more 'grown up' handling owing to the longer wheelbase and wider track.
They are not a 4 seater by any sense of the term so best lay that one to rest. Not sure how the Excel compares as I've never been in one - strange comparison though as to my mind they are from different Lotus eras, certainly in styling terms. Personally I'm not a fan of the wedge era.
For every one who says you cannot use a Plus 2 everyday there will be at least another two who say you can - so long as you keep up on maintenance. Over on Elan net there are several Plus 2 owners who use their cars as a daily one of whom has done a few hundred thousand miles. They are after all a very simple car but come from an era where certain items were 1,000 mile service intervals - you need to enjoy spannering but once reliable they stay that way with only routine and timely attention.
I would not use mine as a regular car but still manage 3-4k a year, mostly for fun or mini road trips. I did the NC500 in 2017 and it never missed a beat.
I would recommend one, just make sure it has a good body and paint as that's the killer cost to do properly.
PS: I have a nice S2 Alfa Spider for sale if you fancy a bit of Italian!
As a Plus 2 owner, I would say that they are a very practical and undervalued classic with a fantastic chassis - not as 'darty' as an Elan but with lovely neutral handling characteristics and a very comfortable and compliant ride (almost modern in feel). Not as quick as an Elan but neither are they slow - however the less frenetic feel suits the 'mini GT' vibe of the car. Paul Matty's favourite classic Lotus - he rates them over the Elan due to their more 'grown up' handling owing to the longer wheelbase and wider track.
They are not a 4 seater by any sense of the term so best lay that one to rest. Not sure how the Excel compares as I've never been in one - strange comparison though as to my mind they are from different Lotus eras, certainly in styling terms. Personally I'm not a fan of the wedge era.
For every one who says you cannot use a Plus 2 everyday there will be at least another two who say you can - so long as you keep up on maintenance. Over on Elan net there are several Plus 2 owners who use their cars as a daily one of whom has done a few hundred thousand miles. They are after all a very simple car but come from an era where certain items were 1,000 mile service intervals - you need to enjoy spannering but once reliable they stay that way with only routine and timely attention.
I would not use mine as a regular car but still manage 3-4k a year, mostly for fun or mini road trips. I did the NC500 in 2017 and it never missed a beat.
I would recommend one, just make sure it has a good body and paint as that's the killer cost to do properly.
PS: I have a nice S2 Alfa Spider for sale if you fancy a bit of Italian!
It's an interesting topic. I can't say that I've seen an elan +2 on the road for an absolute age and other than admiring them from afar I have no knowledge of the practicalities of driving one. I have had a couple of scimitar gte's which were fun cars and true 4 seaters but not rapid by any imagination. If it has to be fibreglass and an occasional +2 how about a tvr 350i 2+2? I may however be somewhat biased
FHCNICK said:
It's an interesting topic. I can't say that I've seen an elan +2 on the road for an absolute age and other than admiring them from afar I have no knowledge of the practicalities of driving one. I have had a couple of scimitar gte's which were fun cars and true 4 seaters but not rapid by any imagination. If it has to be fibreglass and an occasional +2 how about a tvr 350i 2+2? I may however be somewhat biased
2+2 FHC 350i in the store marked hens teeth...Actually did they do a 2+2 350? Thought that was the 280 V6 but you have more knowledge than me on that subject. My only experience of a 350i was one I owned a while back. Column shake and flexi chassis but a nicer sound than my current Chimaera
After two Caterhams, including one with nearly 250bhp, I started a family and decided that because of that, and the fact that I had "done" the Caterham thing, I wanted something that had a roof and 4-seats.
I test drove a Spyder Elan +2 which was a beautifully built car. A 200bhp Zetec and 5-speed box, as well as modern brakes took nothing away from the original but made it a car you could use every day.
But I bought a Cerbera. I thought the +2 was missing some of the performance my Caterham had. The Cerbera was monumental. Of course it was the mental-monumental 4.5 litre version which propelled the car to the ¼ mile marker a full second quicker than the Caterham... but a TVR is a project. It'll never be finished.
In retrospect I wish I had gone for the +2 but I was younger and could drive more aggressively whereas today I'd be happy at 75%. If I had bought the +2, I might still have it whereas the Cerbera lasted barely 18 months before I ran out of interest with the list of jobs I had prepared for its future.
I now drive a massive SUV so feel free to discard my ramblings.
I test drove a Spyder Elan +2 which was a beautifully built car. A 200bhp Zetec and 5-speed box, as well as modern brakes took nothing away from the original but made it a car you could use every day.
But I bought a Cerbera. I thought the +2 was missing some of the performance my Caterham had. The Cerbera was monumental. Of course it was the mental-monumental 4.5 litre version which propelled the car to the ¼ mile marker a full second quicker than the Caterham... but a TVR is a project. It'll never be finished.
In retrospect I wish I had gone for the +2 but I was younger and could drive more aggressively whereas today I'd be happy at 75%. If I had bought the +2, I might still have it whereas the Cerbera lasted barely 18 months before I ran out of interest with the list of jobs I had prepared for its future.
I now drive a massive SUV so feel free to discard my ramblings.
Skyedriver said:
2+2 FHC 350i in the store marked hens teeth...
Actually did they do a 2+2 350? Thought that was the 280 V6 but you have more knowledge than me on that subject. My only experience of a 350i was one I owned a while back. Column shake and flexi chassis but a nicer sound than my current Chimaera
They did yes but single digits volume produced. The 280 is more common and probably has very similar performance to the excel.Actually did they do a 2+2 350? Thought that was the 280 V6 but you have more knowledge than me on that subject. My only experience of a 350i was one I owned a while back. Column shake and flexi chassis but a nicer sound than my current Chimaera
Having had of one the 37ish 280 +2 it isn't much of a 4 seater. As it's the same body as the later Tasmins they made space for the rear seats by changing the fuel tank, quite ingeniously in some ways. Instead of sitting either side of the backbone ahead of the axle, it it above the axle and provided the seat back. The seat bases are where the fuel tanks are on the 2 seater Tasmins. The main downside to them as 4 seaters is, like many +2s, there isn't much if any rear legroom but also, because the fuel tank moves, the boot isn't very large, especially as the spare wheel lives in there.
Gassing Station | General Lotus Stuff | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff