RE: Lotus to make new Esprit abroad?
Monday 4th April 2005
Lotus EspritThe next generation Lotus Esprit looks likely to be made in Malaysia, according to an Autocar report. It's a favoured option both because production costs will be lower, and it's the home of parent company Proton.
Lotus to make new Esprit abroad?
Rumours swirl as workforce waits with jobs at stake
Lotus Esprit
The Elise will stay at Hethel, said a Lotus source. The source said the Lotus is considering other production possibilities but hasn't yet made up its mind. The news though is said to be an open secret among Lotus's 400-strong workforce, who will be bitterly disappointed should the decision fall in Malaysia's favour. With the ending of the production of the Vauxhall VX220 at the end of 2005, new projects such as the Esprit could save their jobs.
Scheduled for launch in 2007-8, the mid-engined, all-alloy £75,000 car may house the Mercedes SLR McLaren's AMG V8 powerplant.
Links
Read about the last Esprit here
Discussion
As far as I'm concerned I won't be buying one, that's a right kick in the teeth for British industry, I think there bang out of order if they go ahead with this. I know proton aren't British but they invested in a British company, do you really want to trust these other guy's building your high performance Car 
Boggy
Boggy
Personally, I am adopting a "wait and see" attitude, as the "engine" thing is still speculation. They could do a lot worse than using the McMerc engine. Also, Lotus do have a long history of using other people's engines and then tuning them to their own specs...
...By the way, aren't the Nobles fabbed in South Africa?
Wait and see - that's me. Final product will help me decide between (1)The Esprit replacement (still not sure the name will stay), (2)AMV8 Vantage or (3)Keep the old V8 until the wheels fall off
ErnestM
...By the way, aren't the Nobles fabbed in South Africa?
Wait and see - that's me. Final product will help me decide between (1)The Esprit replacement (still not sure the name will stay), (2)AMV8 Vantage or (3)Keep the old V8 until the wheels fall off
ErnestM
klassiekerrally said:
Oh oh...
First a Bentley that is made in Germany, and now the Esprit that may be made abroad (India?).
And with a german engine! A very fine one, that's for sure, but...
A pity that they won't use an engine they developed themselves.
I tend to agree. I don't care so much that my VW is made in mexico, but I have certain expectations from British cars (yes, I have heard of Lucas).
Almost makes me wish I bought that Jensen-Healey a few years ago, with the original Lotus 907 engine with enough power to be still on par with most of the roadsters of today.
i too would like it to stay in britain but unfortunatly this is the way things are heading in the next few years a lot more manufactors will be moving porduction abroad were its a lot cheaper.
lotus have taken a big hit on the elise stateside due to exchange rate problems the company needs to stay profitable, despite what ppl say about proton being awash with cash there not an are severly limited in there home market lotus needs to generate its own money hand outs from malaysia as per the past are not gonna happen
>> Edited by peter450 on Monday 4th April 18:24
lotus have taken a big hit on the elise stateside due to exchange rate problems the company needs to stay profitable, despite what ppl say about proton being awash with cash there not an are severly limited in there home market lotus needs to generate its own money hand outs from malaysia as per the past are not gonna happen
>> Edited by peter450 on Monday 4th April 18:24
boggy said:
do you really want to trust these other guy's building your high performance Car
Boggy
Erm...recent TVR's??? OLD Lotus'???
I hate to say it, but UK workforces don't have the best reputations for building cars. I can add to the above two plants close to home:-
Solihull
Longbridge
And it's the Asian manufacturers that have typically produced the more reliable cars. I'd be more worried about the Merc 5.5 S/charged than I would about Malaysian build quality.
As for the whole "but it's not british" thing. Well along with Lotus, Jaguar and Aston haven't been for years. TVR isn't now. It's a global industry, who cares, so long as the car is built right, performs right, and costs a fair price.
havoc said:
do you really want to trust these other guy's building your high performance Car
Boggy
Erm...recent TVR's??? OLD Lotus'???
I hate to say it, but UK workforces don't have the best reputations for building cars. I can add to the above two plants close to home:-
Solihull
Longbridge
And it's the Asian manufacturers that have typically produced the more reliable cars. I'd be more worried about the Merc 5.5 S/charged than I would about Malaysian build quality.
As for the whole "but it's not british" thing. Well along with Lotus, Jaguar and Aston haven't been for years. TVR isn't now. It's a global industry, who cares, so long as the car is built right, performs right, and costs a fair price.
A LOT OF PEOPLE DO CARE.
Let's stop the BS.
If it's not designed and manufactured by LOTUS in the UK, then it's not a Lotus.
It's a car with a Lotus badge on the front.
Meaningless.
Colin Chapman must be turning in his grave.
For good or bad, TVR are still built in England.
Britain has the greatest engineers in the world, and if we make something crap, it's generally in trying to compete with cheaper labour overseas, which we cannot do. The reasons why production is so expensive in this country is down to the government, do not blame the British workforce for lower standards.
And... breathe.
Sorry, I work in engineering and have seen all the big batch stuff go abroad over the last few years, but the company I work for still makes a profit because they have concentrated on higher precision/prototype work.
We may be expensive, but that's irrelevent when we're the only people who can make the product.
Think of the greatest automotive feats of engineering, and they're all British.
0-100-0 anyone?
Land speed record.
Fastest accelerating road car.
Fastest lap of the Nurburgring (road legal)
I can't help it, I know it can be quite shitty some times, but I really do LOVE MY COUNTRY.
(I do not sport a skinhead, or own 14 hole cherry red DMs)
And... breathe.
Sorry, I work in engineering and have seen all the big batch stuff go abroad over the last few years, but the company I work for still makes a profit because they have concentrated on higher precision/prototype work.
We may be expensive, but that's irrelevent when we're the only people who can make the product.
Think of the greatest automotive feats of engineering, and they're all British.
0-100-0 anyone?
Land speed record.
Fastest accelerating road car.
Fastest lap of the Nurburgring (road legal)
I can't help it, I know it can be quite shitty some times, but I really do LOVE MY COUNTRY.
(I do not sport a skinhead, or own 14 hole cherry red DMs)
Really don't know what to think...
If the car is designed by Lotus, I suppose it would be a Lotus wherever it was built. (Going on the assumption that Proton isn't designing the thing... never really specified in anything I've read). Kind of like the Soviet Union liscencing out the design of a mig. The thing is still a mig wherever it's built.
I would be disappointed if the Esprit wasn't made in England, but I won't quality goods can't be built anywhere. It really does depend on how much oversight Lotus has to the production of the car and the methods used.
it's more acceptable that cars like the Bentley and Mini are no longer British... probably because Germany at least has high percieved standards of engineering and a reputation of car making. Unlike Malaysia who build rebadged old Mitsubighis and call them Protons.
All that said, Malaysia would be close to my last choice if my own personal will ruled at Lotus. Perhaps that will make it cheap enough for me to afford however
As for the Merc. V8... it at least gives the car a bit more popular appeal and will put out the goods. And I personally don't mind the renderings Lotus has put out too much (on the understanding that they must be fairly inaccurate and very stylized
dan
If the car is designed by Lotus, I suppose it would be a Lotus wherever it was built. (Going on the assumption that Proton isn't designing the thing... never really specified in anything I've read). Kind of like the Soviet Union liscencing out the design of a mig. The thing is still a mig wherever it's built.
I would be disappointed if the Esprit wasn't made in England, but I won't quality goods can't be built anywhere. It really does depend on how much oversight Lotus has to the production of the car and the methods used.
it's more acceptable that cars like the Bentley and Mini are no longer British... probably because Germany at least has high percieved standards of engineering and a reputation of car making. Unlike Malaysia who build rebadged old Mitsubighis and call them Protons.
All that said, Malaysia would be close to my last choice if my own personal will ruled at Lotus. Perhaps that will make it cheap enough for me to afford however
As for the Merc. V8... it at least gives the car a bit more popular appeal and will put out the goods. And I personally don't mind the renderings Lotus has put out too much (on the understanding that they must be fairly inaccurate and very stylized
dan
86turbo said:
it's more acceptable that cars like the Bentley and Mini are no longer British... probably because Germany at least has high percieved standards of engineering and a reputation of car making. Unlike Malaysia who build rebadged old Mitsubighis and call them Protons.
Ehrm, heard of the 14.000 cars Mercedes called back due to problems with the electronics?
They are getting famous for their lack of build quality!
And as for building british cars in Asia or Germany:
Look at the British car industry as something very...
... British! And then picture this:
Buckingham Palace in Amsterdam would still be Buckingham Palace. Looks the same, probably will last as long. But it just doesn't belong there.
The fact that a VW built in Brazil is OK, is because a Golf is like a Microwave oven or a mixer. You use it, you don't love it. And you don't care where it comes from.
With a british car you choose to buy something British. Therefore it is harder to accept that it is built outside the UK.
Edited to say:
WHOAH!!! The drawing in the Autocar story even LOOKS like a Mercedes!!!
>> Edited by klassiekerrally on Tuesday 5th April 07:12
It's not the quality that's the problem:
Despite the 'quality-risk' people buy TVR's or other British cars.
With cars where emotion is most important (and with that I don't mean Honda, VW or the likes - they are like kitchen-appliances) it IS important where they are built.
Would you buy a Ferrari which is built in Poland?
Despite the 'quality-risk' people buy TVR's or other British cars.
With cars where emotion is most important (and with that I don't mean Honda, VW or the likes - they are like kitchen-appliances) it IS important where they are built.
Would you buy a Ferrari which is built in Poland?
I can sort of see the point...it's to do with the "emotion" of a brand.
But if it makes it £5k cheaper, and it's built on a modern, efficient production-line which doesn't force compromises (Longbridge?!?) and which should mean more consistent standards. Then I think most buyers will be happy!
e.g. how many people would prefer to buy a Tuscan at £5k cheaper with better build and reliability, but it was built overseas, as against the recent one (not so much the Tuscan-2, I know that's supposed to be substantially improved), built here in Blackpool???
But if it makes it £5k cheaper, and it's built on a modern, efficient production-line which doesn't force compromises (Longbridge?!?) and which should mean more consistent standards. Then I think most buyers will be happy!
e.g. how many people would prefer to buy a Tuscan at £5k cheaper with better build and reliability, but it was built overseas, as against the recent one (not so much the Tuscan-2, I know that's supposed to be substantially improved), built here in Blackpool???
I think if Hethel can make the Elise work on the production line then they can make the Esprit work too. Yes the costs are greater in the UK but the market says what it thinks out loud and if the car says 'Made in England' on in with a little Union flag then that will only help sell it. Of course the build quality has to be good but when you charge £70000 for a car its not difficult to put quality nuts and bolts on an extruded aluminium chassis is it? Hell, if Ultima can source the highest quality parts from UK fabricators and put them together then Lotus should find this a piece of PI55!
TVR used to add up how much it cost to make a car plus overheads, wang on some profit and Bobs-yer-uncle. A profitable business. (OK they had the quality control issue too but cars did sell)
My opinion: make it in England or don't bother.
Otherwise I would just buy a passionless euroblob or hammered out asian thing instead. Second thoughts I would buy a classic Lotus and keep it going with modern parts. Far more fun. No road tax. Index and middle finger to Gordon (scumbag) Brown.
TVR used to add up how much it cost to make a car plus overheads, wang on some profit and Bobs-yer-uncle. A profitable business. (OK they had the quality control issue too but cars did sell)
My opinion: make it in England or don't bother.
Otherwise I would just buy a passionless euroblob or hammered out asian thing instead. Second thoughts I would buy a classic Lotus and keep it going with modern parts. Far more fun. No road tax. Index and middle finger to Gordon (scumbag) Brown.
havoc said:
But if it makes it £5k cheaper, and it's built on a modern, efficient production-line which doesn't force compromises (Longbridge?!?) and which should mean more consistent standards. Then I think most buyers will be happy!
You're deluding yourself if you think the savings will go anywhere near consumers. They'll be converted to pure profit.
benfell100 said:
Otherwise I would just buy a passionless euroblob or hammered out asian thing instead.
Yep, been doing that for years...and my current (factory standard) hammered-out asian thing eats stock Elise's on-track...and it packs my track-wheels, another set of rubber, a toolkit, 2 overnight bags and a passenger. And it's got a better exhaust note while you're at it!!!
Oh, it's got aircon, elec windows and a fairly decent stereo.
AND, best of all, IT'S BUILT WELL!!!
It was released at the same time as the S1, cost a little less than the S1, and offers nearly as much entertainment...in fact Evo voted it 2nd (ABOVE the Elise and behind something called a P1...think that's Japanese too!?!) in their real-world drivers car feature a few years back.
So...what was so great about something being built here again?!?
Sorry to go on, but when I hear such ill-considered jingoism, I just have to put someone down.
I've actually got a lot of time for the Elise, was just making a point.
M100 said:
Not sure why anyone is getting worried as It just ain't going to happen.
The leak is intentional to attract government / EU funding to keep the jobs at Hethel.
If things go t1ts up It might backfire though :-(
Tend to agree - Lotus have a big production facility all geared up for this sort of work at Hethel. Even if Proton really pushed for build in Malaysia, I'm guessing the cost of setting up a facility there to the right standards would be significant. On the other hand, with the pressure of the dollar, maybe making some proportion of Lotus' output there would reduce the financial impact of exchange rate fluctuations. If anything I'd expect shared production rather than everything moving out east.
I'm really not sure about the latest Autocar renderings - it's got a certain 50's jet car look about it, and the nose does nothing for me. I don't like Max Power stylings, but something a little bit more muscular than this would appeal. Perhaps some more defined haunches? After the very cab-forward style of the last few years, this seems rather weakly balanced, but I guess you can never tell how it would work in the flesh.
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