Discussion
Having purchased my new 2004 Exige here in Australia
I’m interested to know if you guys in the UK have any problems with build quality
My Car has the following problems
Loud squeaking from left side of car, roof area
Loud knocking from left side car, seems to come from left hand front speaker area
Drivers seat loose on its rails, rocks back and forth under braking and acceleration
Engine wants to stall under braking in traffic
The dealer has been unable to fix any of the above when reported at first service
Major blemishes on paint job (chrome Orange) has several dimples in Fibre glass that have been painted over.
Different colour paint line that runs down from just behind the fuel filler cap and across the flat above the rear wheel arch
Looks like they ran out of paint at that point and had to rub back and continue on at a later date.
Only noticeable from certain angles under good light
I love the style and performance of this car, but feel the build quality
Should be a lot better
Am I being overly picky, the car cost me a lot of dosh down here
$97,734 base price
+$10,831 Luxury Car Tax
+$ 4,875 Stamp Duty
+$ 2,689 Extreme Paint
+$ 2,450 Dealer Charge
+$ 1,793 T45 Roll Bar
+$ 500 Registration
TOTAL $120,872 = 49,929 pounds
I’m interested to know if you guys in the UK have any problems with build quality
My Car has the following problems
Loud squeaking from left side of car, roof area
Loud knocking from left side car, seems to come from left hand front speaker area
Drivers seat loose on its rails, rocks back and forth under braking and acceleration
Engine wants to stall under braking in traffic
The dealer has been unable to fix any of the above when reported at first service
Major blemishes on paint job (chrome Orange) has several dimples in Fibre glass that have been painted over.
Different colour paint line that runs down from just behind the fuel filler cap and across the flat above the rear wheel arch
Looks like they ran out of paint at that point and had to rub back and continue on at a later date.
Only noticeable from certain angles under good light
I love the style and performance of this car, but feel the build quality
Should be a lot better
Am I being overly picky, the car cost me a lot of dosh down here
$97,734 base price
+$10,831 Luxury Car Tax
+$ 4,875 Stamp Duty
+$ 2,689 Extreme Paint
+$ 2,450 Dealer Charge
+$ 1,793 T45 Roll Bar
+$ 500 Registration
TOTAL $120,872 = 49,929 pounds
Sounds as though you are very unlucky. I had an early producution ('97) S1.
Yes, you could tell it was a lightweight sportscar, but it didn't suffer from any specific rattles or squeaks (apart from MMC brakes being very squealy unless you gave them a bit of abuse every now and then). I thought that teh build quality was excellent, given the nature of the car, and apart from a seized rad. fan (common fault), it was totally, 100% reliable during my ownership.
Yes, you could tell it was a lightweight sportscar, but it didn't suffer from any specific rattles or squeaks (apart from MMC brakes being very squealy unless you gave them a bit of abuse every now and then). I thought that teh build quality was excellent, given the nature of the car, and apart from a seized rad. fan (common fault), it was totally, 100% reliable during my ownership.
the squeaks are normal for a lotus just about every model has a rattle or squeak somewere granted some more noticable than others but they all do it.
My excel makes a funny tapping sound its the speedo, at around the 30mph reading it seems to vibrate slightly.
The loud thumping not so sure that might be somthing that you can get sorted if it really is loud then i think you should pursue that with the dealer, the seat should most certainly not be wobbly an that you should insist on being repaired or replaced,
The paint job also sounds unacceptable the finnish on lotus cars nowadays is as good as that of steel bodied car's ur paint job might have been ok in the 80's an 90's but standards of finnish are very high at lotus now so insist your cars paint it properly sorted out.
As for the stalling there is a discusion on the seloc board regarding a ecu reflash aimed at rough idleing/stalling maybe you should look at getting this done heres the link to it paste the last line into ur browser address thing.
http://forums.seloc.org/viewthread.php?tid=44436
My excel makes a funny tapping sound its the speedo, at around the 30mph reading it seems to vibrate slightly.
The loud thumping not so sure that might be somthing that you can get sorted if it really is loud then i think you should pursue that with the dealer, the seat should most certainly not be wobbly an that you should insist on being repaired or replaced,
The paint job also sounds unacceptable the finnish on lotus cars nowadays is as good as that of steel bodied car's ur paint job might have been ok in the 80's an 90's but standards of finnish are very high at lotus now so insist your cars paint it properly sorted out.
As for the stalling there is a discusion on the seloc board regarding a ecu reflash aimed at rough idleing/stalling maybe you should look at getting this done heres the link to it paste the last line into ur browser address thing.
http://forums.seloc.org/viewthread.php?tid=44436
I've had mine for 6 months now, the squeak is awful, went back to the dealer 3 times b4 i decided to fix the thing myself by tightening the roof by a few notches. I also still have the stalling problem, blip my accelerator to stop it stalling.
But like others have said its one amazing handling machine and far better put together than previous lotus' i have owned.
I do think it is underpowered though hence my new experimentation with tvr.
But like others have said its one amazing handling machine and far better put together than previous lotus' i have owned.
I do think it is underpowered though hence my new experimentation with tvr.
Thank you all for your comments, this is my first Lotus and I can accept a few squeaks and rattles.
The performance, handling and styling of the car speaks for it’s self and is the reason I purchased a Lotus.
Loose drivers seat, and marginal paintwork are in my opinion fairly serious quality control issues that should be addressed at a factory level.
When you’re in the business of low volume production, its attention to detail that keeps you in business.
Flawless External finish on a hand laid fibre glass body is not difficult to achieve.
The performance, handling and styling of the car speaks for it’s self and is the reason I purchased a Lotus.
Loose drivers seat, and marginal paintwork are in my opinion fairly serious quality control issues that should be addressed at a factory level.
When you’re in the business of low volume production, its attention to detail that keeps you in business.
Flawless External finish on a hand laid fibre glass body is not difficult to achieve.
Update on Build Quality
Well I’ve ended up hitting a large dog with my Exige and did some damage to the front clam. :-(
Sent the car to the best repairer here in Sydney, factory approved repairer for Porsche, Ferrari and Lotus.
During work on the car the paint specialist dude noticed the paint flaw on the rear below the filler cap.
Rang me at work and said I have serious problems with my paint work
orange peels in it, dirt and other debris.
His view was the car had been badly resprayed at some point
The car is only 4 months old I told him, I ordered it new!!!
He then went on to tell me some horror stories about how car’s are often damaged in transit and repaired prior to delivery to the customer.
Apparently records are kept if this happens
With the Rattles and paint problems, I’m starting to think the thing fell off the ship at some point between the UK and Australia.
So to cut a long story short, over the past week or so, I’ve meet with the head Lotus dudes here in Australia who assure me that the car was not damaged in transit.
The Proton dudes have been in to take photo’s of the car
It’s looking very much like a full warranty respray.
Estimated time to get my car back at least another two months and it’s been in the workshop almost a month.
Well I’ve ended up hitting a large dog with my Exige and did some damage to the front clam. :-(
Sent the car to the best repairer here in Sydney, factory approved repairer for Porsche, Ferrari and Lotus.
During work on the car the paint specialist dude noticed the paint flaw on the rear below the filler cap.
Rang me at work and said I have serious problems with my paint work
orange peels in it, dirt and other debris.
His view was the car had been badly resprayed at some point
The car is only 4 months old I told him, I ordered it new!!!
He then went on to tell me some horror stories about how car’s are often damaged in transit and repaired prior to delivery to the customer.
Apparently records are kept if this happens
With the Rattles and paint problems, I’m starting to think the thing fell off the ship at some point between the UK and Australia.
So to cut a long story short, over the past week or so, I’ve meet with the head Lotus dudes here in Australia who assure me that the car was not damaged in transit.
The Proton dudes have been in to take photo’s of the car
It’s looking very much like a full warranty respray.
Estimated time to get my car back at least another two months and it’s been in the workshop almost a month.
I've been in and around the motor industry and have both managed dealerships and sold vehicles over here and I have to say, unfortunately, that you are correct in saying that cars regularly get damaged in transit.
Here in the UK we had cars arriving from the factory and at least 30% required minor repairs, 10% major and another 10% repairs due to transit damage. Add in a long ferry journey, 3 more movements and you have to say a large percentage will require remedial work, mainly paint.
On an aside and as both a Lotus enthusiast, having links to the company and living 2 miles away from the factory. Lotus used to be run by Lotus people, with Colin Chapman and Lotus running through their veins. For the last 10 years minimum, the company has been mis-managed and one famous cock up of an MD actually laid off all the Lotus and Automotive professionals and employed City "professionals" (Yupies) saying that he wanted to give the company a "new perspective". Needless to say he lasted about 2 years but screwed the company in the process.
I like the Elise but have to ask is it really Lotus or Lotus's attempt at breaking into the MX5, VX220 etc etc market? For me real Lotus's died out with the Esprit, Excel, Elite and before that Europa and Elan.
Lets hope Proton take it back to it's roots.........anyone take a 50-1 bet that it won't happen?
Here in the UK we had cars arriving from the factory and at least 30% required minor repairs, 10% major and another 10% repairs due to transit damage. Add in a long ferry journey, 3 more movements and you have to say a large percentage will require remedial work, mainly paint.
On an aside and as both a Lotus enthusiast, having links to the company and living 2 miles away from the factory. Lotus used to be run by Lotus people, with Colin Chapman and Lotus running through their veins. For the last 10 years minimum, the company has been mis-managed and one famous cock up of an MD actually laid off all the Lotus and Automotive professionals and employed City "professionals" (Yupies) saying that he wanted to give the company a "new perspective". Needless to say he lasted about 2 years but screwed the company in the process.
I like the Elise but have to ask is it really Lotus or Lotus's attempt at breaking into the MX5, VX220 etc etc market? For me real Lotus's died out with the Esprit, Excel, Elite and before that Europa and Elan.
Lets hope Proton take it back to it's roots.........anyone take a 50-1 bet that it won't happen?
Kimbers34 said:
I like the Elise but have to ask is it really Lotus or Lotus's attempt at breaking into the MX5, VX220 etc etc market? For me real Lotus's died out with the Esprit, Excel, Elite and before that Europa and Elan.
Lets hope Proton take it back to it's roots.........anyone take a 50-1 bet that it won't happen?
Um, that's a really strange way to put things - you wonder if the Elise is an attempt to break into the VX220 market????
I appreciate your associations with 'old' Lotus (that was also quite well mismanaged, and lurched from one over rushed, under funded project to the next), but 'new' Lotus produced something technically extremely advanced in the Elise, as well as a storming drivers' car. They dropped the ball spectacularly around the time of the VX220 link up (or GM screwed them - depending on your interpretation of the facts). Since then, they're looking a bit more humble, and hopefully the pressure will result in something special for the Esprit replacement, just as it resulted in the Elise when the company needed a hit.
The Esprit, Europa, Elan appeared at a 'golden age' for the comany - though the first two were massively under developed even at the time. The Elise kept the company from going under, and gave them back some direction. Though they've had a hiccup or two since, I think they have every chance of producing some extremely desirable cars in the next few years.
They dropped the ball spectacularly around the time of the VX220 link up (or GM screwed them - depending on your interpretation of the facts)
how did you come to this conclusion lotus got a brand new asembly line out of the deal and a lot of new manufacting/production capabilty i also believe they got a new paintshop out of the deal aswell this stuff would have cost lotus millions of pounds an they would most likly not have got it had gm not paid for it.
an what did gm get? a lotus elise clone that for the first two years no one bought because A it wasnt a lotus an ppl who buy sports cars dont jus buy into the car but the hole herritage, racing history etc.
An B offered very similar performance to a standard s1. it was only with the introduction of the turbo that the vx got noticed and even then most ppl prefered the lighter more agile lotus (not dissing the vx it was a stunning car lotus built it after all so its a lotus in all but name) the turbo had about 2 or 3 yrs until the 111r came along but even when they had a car that was at last different enough to justify its place in the market it still sold in tiny numbers there more exiges/sport190 elises then vx turbos i think an while these cars offer similiar speed they were way more expensive an reliabilty was a weak point but still lotus sold quite a few.
lotus did very nicely out of the deal they still sold a load of elises of all varietys an the vx had a low impact on there sales. No surprise that the vx is no more while the elise is as popular as ever
how did you come to this conclusion lotus got a brand new asembly line out of the deal and a lot of new manufacting/production capabilty i also believe they got a new paintshop out of the deal aswell this stuff would have cost lotus millions of pounds an they would most likly not have got it had gm not paid for it.
an what did gm get? a lotus elise clone that for the first two years no one bought because A it wasnt a lotus an ppl who buy sports cars dont jus buy into the car but the hole herritage, racing history etc.
An B offered very similar performance to a standard s1. it was only with the introduction of the turbo that the vx got noticed and even then most ppl prefered the lighter more agile lotus (not dissing the vx it was a stunning car lotus built it after all so its a lotus in all but name) the turbo had about 2 or 3 yrs until the 111r came along but even when they had a car that was at last different enough to justify its place in the market it still sold in tiny numbers there more exiges/sport190 elises then vx turbos i think an while these cars offer similiar speed they were way more expensive an reliabilty was a weak point but still lotus sold quite a few.
lotus did very nicely out of the deal they still sold a load of elises of all varietys an the vx had a low impact on there sales. No surprise that the vx is no more while the elise is as popular as ever
peter450 said:
They dropped the ball spectacularly around the time of the VX220 link up (or GM screwed them - depending on your interpretation of the facts)
how did you come to this conclusion lotus got a brand new asembly line out of the deal and a lot of new manufacting/production capabilty i also believe they got a new paintshop out of the deal aswell this stuff would have cost lotus millions of pounds an they would most likly not have got it had gm not paid for it.
The GM deal tied Lotus to a whole load of quality targets that appeared to hold the entire production line to ransom. Lotus announced the Elise Mk II (at which point dealers suddenly couldn't shift the Mk I) and then couldn't produce the car for something like six months. GM seemed to have pulled a brilliant trick - they got an Elise derivative and in the process halted production of the Elise.
That is my interpretation of what happened, but it's certainly true that for six months or so Lotus were in very deep trouble and some dealers collapsed. At the time I had a deposit with one for the M250 and got to hear all the problems at first hand (though my deposit could not be returned).
allenme said:
It’s looking very much like a full warranty respray.
Estimated time to get my car back at least another two months and it’s been in the workshop almost a month.
This is good news (bad news about the wait). I couldn't believe the issues you've experienced especially as most of the problems customers experienced are with the early S1's and not the newer models. I live about 15 miles from the factory (Dereham, UK) so would park the bloody thing back on the production line if it happens to me! I collect my 111R on Saturday!
your right about the mess but that was lotus's mess gm wanted a car that had a reasonable standard of quality much like you if you bought a new car also they were putting there badge on it so a lotus bodge up would have blown up in there face, not lotus's so yes they insisted on quality controls. I read somewere that they sent a lot of cars back to be finnished properly dont know if thats true but it seems to tie in with what ur saying, but over the long term lotus did nicely out of it an these so called quality targets in the long term have probably helped lotus raise the game on there own car, yes there were problems an yes mistakes were made mostly by lotus, (i dont think they fully apreciated the dificulty in meeting a mass manfactorers build quality expectations) an this did cause problems for them but dont think that lotus lost out they jus didnt gain as much as they could have
Tuna said:
The Elise kept the company from going under, and gave them back some direction.
I think you will find the Elan S2 (produced for free as a result of the stockpiled powertrains) kept the company from going under and provided the cashflow to fund the Elise development.
The demand for the Elise stretched Lotus to breaking point though as it was never designed for mass production with Lotus envisaging production in the low to mid hundreds per year - hand laid moulds for instance hadn't been used for major body sections since the mid 70's when the Elan and Europa ceased production.
Maybe it did give them some direction - they just lost it when they canned the M250 and brought out the S2 :-)
M100 said:
The Elise kept the company from going under, and gave them back some direction.
I think you will find the Elan S2 (produced for free as a result of the stockpiled powertrains) kept the company from going under and provided the cashflow to fund the Elise development.
Laughing here - there are probably a few cars that you could point to as 'keeping Lotus afloat' at the time. I don't doubt the Elan S2 was one of them, but by the time the Elise came out, I would guess Elan sales were not going to keep things going much longer.
M100 said:
Maybe it did give them some direction - they just lost it when they canned the M250 and brought out the S2 :-)
Agreed entirely.
Tuna said:
Laughing here - there are probably a few cars that you could point to as 'keeping Lotus afloat' at the time. I don't doubt the Elan S2 was one of them, but by the time the Elise came out, I would guess Elan sales were not going to keep things going much longer.
Guess you better read up on your Lotus history then Tuna. There have been many financial crises at Lotus, some might even say continual since 1948 but the early 90's were perhaps the worst as sales severely dipped due to global recession and no new products were in development. Engineering contracts with GM and the like kept them going (as indeed they have done until the past couple of years)
Bugatti, whilst having finances to buy Lotus and benefiting from GM's write off of GBP 54 million debt had severe problems getting their flagship supercar type approved and production ready. The lack of sales subsequently made a big hole in their finances so they desperately needed cashflow to keep Bugatti and Lotus afloat.
Esprit sales were flat at around 300 units, ahead of the huge dip in 91 but still way behind peak of 88 when they sold over 1000 units. Being a complex car and very labour intensive there wasn't a huge profit in each car anyway and the US dollar/pound exchange rate wasn't helping. The Excel was cruelly viewed as end of life in 1992 and the Omega/Carlton production run was ceased ahead of time. 1992/3 was pretty grim for Lotus.
With the write off of the debt and starting with a clean balance sheet the company needed money fast to stay afloat and to finance the ailing Bugatti. So the Elan was revived some 2 years after production originally ceased to essentially provide that cashflow. The powertrains had stood in the stores for over two years and were paid for, the production areas was lying very empty and the paintshop was vasty under utilised and so the costs to bring it back into production were minimal - estimates say around GBP 100,000.
The money from the sales ultimately failed to keep Bugatti afloat but was sufficient for the Elise to be developed on a shoestring and the company to be sold to Hicom (Proton) just a few of months after the Elise launch.
The Elan S2 was never intended to be anything but a limted production run as the engines had ceased production in their original form and the replacement was too tall to fit under the bonnet. The last Elan came off the line in September 1995 as planned - around 6 months before the Frankfurt show launch of the Elise.
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