Lotus elan S4 as useable classic..
Discussion
hi all
i have owned some fibreglass cars in the past but never a Lotus
have seen a couple of s4 for sale, and they do look very smart
With spyder replacement chassis and mildly tuned TC, how easy would it to be to live with an elan? I would use it mostly all year round on weekends and occasional track day
all the alternatives im considering are much more modern (350z, espirit s4,tvr griff etc), but i love the older stuff..
i have owned some fibreglass cars in the past but never a Lotus
have seen a couple of s4 for sale, and they do look very smart
With spyder replacement chassis and mildly tuned TC, how easy would it to be to live with an elan? I would use it mostly all year round on weekends and occasional track day
all the alternatives im considering are much more modern (350z, espirit s4,tvr griff etc), but i love the older stuff..
I suppose it depends on your mileage and what you're expecting. They aren't good on motorways as they're quite low geared by modern standards. And of course they're a 1960s design so things we've come to take for granted like ABS, long service intervals, etc, just aren't there.
But they are quite usable and were designed to be used just the same as any other sports car in the period. When I bought mine in the 70s it was a daily driver until well into the 80s and there's loads of other folks who rack up high mileages. I even carried bags of cement in the back at one point...
Personally I don't see anything wrong with the engines or mechanics but they are high maintenance compared with a modern car - frequent oil changes and olde-worlde style grease points !!! Maybe try & hire one for a couple of days and see if the reality matches the image ?
But they are quite usable and were designed to be used just the same as any other sports car in the period. When I bought mine in the 70s it was a daily driver until well into the 80s and there's loads of other folks who rack up high mileages. I even carried bags of cement in the back at one point...
Personally I don't see anything wrong with the engines or mechanics but they are high maintenance compared with a modern car - frequent oil changes and olde-worlde style grease points !!! Maybe try & hire one for a couple of days and see if the reality matches the image ?
72twink said:
Just wondering why it would need a Spyder chassis to be considered for daily use?
oh ofcourse thats not a pre-requisite, but the one ive seen for sale has one, and i suppose its nice peace of mind knowing the chassis is sorted. (given the choice id rather have a sorted new chassis than an original that may have been repaired or welded)i suppose the only reservation i have is whether a TC on weber carbs will be a pain to look after and maintain, but i dont think it should be too much of a problem
olia said:
i suppose the only reservation i have is whether a TC on weber carbs will be a pain to look after and maintain, but i dont think it should be too much of a problem
I think webers have an unjustified poor reputation and it's probably due to people tinkering at weekends, once set up properly they're fine. Folks seem to assume that the TC engine will be falling apart every few thousand miles but forget that Ford sold them to Joe Public who just wanted a faster Cortina where they'd get far less attention.The only thing I'd do to simplify maintenance is fit electronic ignition as changing CB points is far more of a hassle than the webers are.
If you haven't already found it, take a look on http://www.lotuselan.net/forums/. Lots of info about the cars in both standard and modified/modernised form.
http://qedmotorsport.co.uk/the-engines/lotus-twin-...
quite an expensive kit, and i assume no power increase expected? for fuel economy alone it wouldnt be worth it, but it would be more reliable than carbs?
quite an expensive kit, and i assume no power increase expected? for fuel economy alone it wouldnt be worth it, but it would be more reliable than carbs?
went to see a car for sale, had spyder chassis, but had a number of other mechanical issues..
for the same money i could get a +2 with spyder chssis / zetec with 170-200 BHP
How does the +2 compare in terms of handling with its baby brother?
I guess the longer wheel base may be beneficial, but it also has around 200+ kilograms
am now seriously temped by the +2, i drove one many years ago, but really dont remeber how it handled
for the same money i could get a +2 with spyder chssis / zetec with 170-200 BHP
How does the +2 compare in terms of handling with its baby brother?
I guess the longer wheel base may be beneficial, but it also has around 200+ kilograms
am now seriously temped by the +2, i drove one many years ago, but really dont remeber how it handled
The +2 probably corners better than the 2 seat élan because of it's extra width and chassis length, however it's also heavier (although still very light at 850-900kg) so doesn't accelerate as well and isn't as nimble. It is more practical though - you can get small children in the back and it has more luggage space. In terms of maintenance it's more or less the same as the 2 seat élan with a few small differences. The engine is easier to get at which is a plus point. You can also get a 5 speed version which makes a massive difference to fuel economy on motorways (it will do 40+ MPG on the motorway and keep up with traffic well) although the original 5 speed can be fragile and the change isn't great. The 4 speed has one of the best gear changes you can get BUT is under-geared for motorway use. You can also get other gearbox conversions (e.g. Ford T5?) but having tried a couple of cars that have been converted, to me they don't provide much benefit over the 5 speed as you may need to move the gear lever and/or the gate is too wide.
Other things to think about - you really wouldn't want to have a side impact crash in one though (I think this is a common problem with all 60's-70's cars not just the GRP ones though) and you need to avoid sitting alongside lorrys on motorways/dual carriageways as they can't see you. You do need to do more maintenance more regularly than a modern to keep it reliable. If you have to pay someone to do this then it could get expensive. It's also good to keep them in a garage, especially when it's very wet and frosty.
The zetec cars, if done properly, are very quick - 200bhp in 900kg = a lot of fun. They should also, in theory, be more reliable. That said, depending on how long you keep the car, how easy will it be to find parts for the zebec engine (you can still get all the bits for a twin cam, in some instances at a price though) and how much will a non-original car be worth in 10 years?
I am biased, but I've had my +2 for over 10 years, done over 30k miles including use as a daily driver. They are great fun if exasperating at times. I'd say go for it (but then I would wouldn't I) IF you are able to look after it yourself.
Other things to think about - you really wouldn't want to have a side impact crash in one though (I think this is a common problem with all 60's-70's cars not just the GRP ones though) and you need to avoid sitting alongside lorrys on motorways/dual carriageways as they can't see you. You do need to do more maintenance more regularly than a modern to keep it reliable. If you have to pay someone to do this then it could get expensive. It's also good to keep them in a garage, especially when it's very wet and frosty.
The zetec cars, if done properly, are very quick - 200bhp in 900kg = a lot of fun. They should also, in theory, be more reliable. That said, depending on how long you keep the car, how easy will it be to find parts for the zebec engine (you can still get all the bits for a twin cam, in some instances at a price though) and how much will a non-original car be worth in 10 years?
I am biased, but I've had my +2 for over 10 years, done over 30k miles including use as a daily driver. They are great fun if exasperating at times. I'd say go for it (but then I would wouldn't I) IF you are able to look after it yourself.
Edited by Lotus 50 on Monday 6th January 14:01
i think that im leaning towards a spyder zetec conversion
they normally redo all the electrics with new wiring and fuse box
the zetec is one of the most popular engines in kits and classics, i think the parts supply into the future will be strong
regarding side impact.. ideally, on a plus 2, you would need to remove the rear seats, install a roll-over bar, and then sill strengtheners with added lateral bracing can be done (this is what spyder told me), disadvantage is the loss of rear seat usage, but how often would i really use those!
sometimes sacrificing originality for reliability and ease of ownership can be worth it.. I think for the plus 2 its a good compromise
they normally redo all the electrics with new wiring and fuse box
the zetec is one of the most popular engines in kits and classics, i think the parts supply into the future will be strong
regarding side impact.. ideally, on a plus 2, you would need to remove the rear seats, install a roll-over bar, and then sill strengtheners with added lateral bracing can be done (this is what spyder told me), disadvantage is the loss of rear seat usage, but how often would i really use those!
sometimes sacrificing originality for reliability and ease of ownership can be worth it.. I think for the plus 2 its a good compromise
Now why would you do that when (to quote the owners handbook):
"The Elan +2 has been built with safety in mind and incorporates 'in-built' safety features, which we feel, when sensibly used, should assist in avoiding an accident.
Some of these features are:- excellent visibility including a very low bonnet line. Powerful servo-assisted disc brakes giving repeated high performances with light pedal action, capable of exceeding .9g retardation. Light, accurate, high-geared steering requiring the minimum of movement to change direction. Excellent road-holding and very high cornering ability, capable of exceeding .8g lateral side load, vivid acceleration from the twin overhead camshaft engine ensuring rapid overtaking with the minimum of delay.
It is pointed out that as with all things, there is an ultimate. This particularly applies to road-holding, therefore, the car should be driven at all times within the capabilities of your own experience."
"The Elan +2 has been built with safety in mind and incorporates 'in-built' safety features, which we feel, when sensibly used, should assist in avoiding an accident.
Some of these features are:- excellent visibility including a very low bonnet line. Powerful servo-assisted disc brakes giving repeated high performances with light pedal action, capable of exceeding .9g retardation. Light, accurate, high-geared steering requiring the minimum of movement to change direction. Excellent road-holding and very high cornering ability, capable of exceeding .8g lateral side load, vivid acceleration from the twin overhead camshaft engine ensuring rapid overtaking with the minimum of delay.
It is pointed out that as with all things, there is an ultimate. This particularly applies to road-holding, therefore, the car should be driven at all times within the capabilities of your own experience."
Lotus 50 said:
Now why would you do that when (to quote the owners handbook):
"The Elan +2 has been built with safety in mind and incorporates 'in-built' safety features, which we feel, when sensibly used, should assist in avoiding an accident.
Some of these features are:- excellent visibility including a very low bonnet line. Powerful servo-assisted disc brakes giving repeated high performances with light pedal action, capable of exceeding .9g retardation. Light, accurate, high-geared steering requiring the minimum of movement to change direction. Excellent road-holding and very high cornering ability, capable of exceeding .8g lateral side load, vivid acceleration from the twin overhead camshaft engine ensuring rapid overtaking with the minimum of delay.
It is pointed out that as with all things, there is an ultimate. This particularly applies to road-holding, therefore, the car should be driven at all times within the capabilities of your own experience."
yep those are indeed great safety features "The Elan +2 has been built with safety in mind and incorporates 'in-built' safety features, which we feel, when sensibly used, should assist in avoiding an accident.
Some of these features are:- excellent visibility including a very low bonnet line. Powerful servo-assisted disc brakes giving repeated high performances with light pedal action, capable of exceeding .9g retardation. Light, accurate, high-geared steering requiring the minimum of movement to change direction. Excellent road-holding and very high cornering ability, capable of exceeding .8g lateral side load, vivid acceleration from the twin overhead camshaft engine ensuring rapid overtaking with the minimum of delay.
It is pointed out that as with all things, there is an ultimate. This particularly applies to road-holding, therefore, the car should be driven at all times within the capabilities of your own experience."
you could go really mad and do this to the car:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjZdkEFFv74
I ran an Elan as an everyday car in the 70's, if I did it today, I'd have electronic ignition, as suggested, plus electric fuel pump and pressure regulator, alternator, change out the drive shafts to have Cv joints, and an electric (Davies Craig) water pump,
From memory my sprint with a 4 speed was geared 1000rpm per 16Mph in top so 5000rpm at 80mph, so maybe a type 9 ford gear box, with the right ratios would also be worthwhile.
I have a Caterham with a 1700 super sprint engine on twin webbers now, and I would hate to try and change the points.
From memory my sprint with a 4 speed was geared 1000rpm per 16Mph in top so 5000rpm at 80mph, so maybe a type 9 ford gear box, with the right ratios would also be worthwhile.
I have a Caterham with a 1700 super sprint engine on twin webbers now, and I would hate to try and change the points.
just came across this Lotus Elan S4, I like it 
it has a 2.0 tuned Ford engine and some stronger chassis etc, would be a lovely car, its light and pretty fast me thinks?
Lotus Elan S4 New Frame-off Restoration
http://car-from-uk.com/sale.php?id=37963
it has a 2.0 tuned Ford engine and some stronger chassis etc, would be a lovely car, its light and pretty fast me thinks?
Lotus Elan S4 New Frame-off Restoration
said:
No more special ordering and waiting weeks for those engine parts. It has a SPYDER spaceframe chassis. The SPYDER chassis eliminates chassis flex that's common with the original sheet metal chassis. The rear suspension has many upgrades. It has been upgraded from the MacPherson strut to double A-Arms. The race inspired SPYDER made A-Arms have adjustable heim joints. The Quaife limited slip differential has been upgraded with Porsche CV Joints and Half Shafts. No more crazy half shaft rubber donuts as on the original cars. The front suspension has also been upgraded with similar race inspired SPYDER made A-Arms with adjustable heim joints. An upgraded sway bar was also added. There are adjustable SPAX shocks on all four corners. New adjustable coil over springs can also be used to set the ride height to your driving style. The massive wheels are high dollar 3-piece construction with polished aluminum outers and inners with Magnesium centers.
http://car-from-uk.com/sale.php?id=37963
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