Revealed: the origin of the Lotus name?
Discussion
From a discussion on the Yahoo! Lotus Cars group:
2 minutes 35 seconds in (though the whole clip is well worth a watch if you are a Lotus fan).
I strongly suspect that by 'bathroom fittings', he actually meant what the building trade would call 'sanitary fittings' (ie. toilet pans, urinals, wash basins). Certainly, there used to be a manufacturer of sanitary ware called 'Lotus' - I've come across them myself on several occasions in my career as an architect, refurbishing old buildings (not my photos, though - Googled from an architectural salvage company):
Ironically, even the typeface is not too dissimilar to that used on the current company logo.
Perhaps, as so many of us do, Chapman sought inspiration for solutions to the day's pressing problems in a few moments of uninterrupted peace whilst pointing Percy at the porcelain?
2 minutes 35 seconds in (though the whole clip is well worth a watch if you are a Lotus fan).
I strongly suspect that by 'bathroom fittings', he actually meant what the building trade would call 'sanitary fittings' (ie. toilet pans, urinals, wash basins). Certainly, there used to be a manufacturer of sanitary ware called 'Lotus' - I've come across them myself on several occasions in my career as an architect, refurbishing old buildings (not my photos, though - Googled from an architectural salvage company):
Ironically, even the typeface is not too dissimilar to that used on the current company logo.
Perhaps, as so many of us do, Chapman sought inspiration for solutions to the day's pressing problems in a few moments of uninterrupted peace whilst pointing Percy at the porcelain?
Clive Chapman has been selling copies of that movie at Classic Team Lotus now for ages, I got a copy from them 6 or 7 years ago, they are 13 quid.
http://www.classicteamlotus.co.uk/_Attachments/474...
It was probably pulled from utube for copyright reasons.
As for Lotus being named after a toilet, cant you guys see that they were just having a joke?
http://www.classicteamlotus.co.uk/_Attachments/474...
It was probably pulled from utube for copyright reasons.
As for Lotus being named after a toilet, cant you guys see that they were just having a joke?
WayneB said:
As for Lotus being named after a toilet, cant you guys see that they were just having a joke?
It's as credible an explanation as any... certainly more believable than the 'LOT Un Sold' explanation that's sometimes touted.Not that I think it would have been named after a toilet, as such, but it's entirely possible that Chapman saw the name on the sanitary ware and thought 'that's a nice, exotic sounding name for a car'.
And at the end of the day, it's the only explanation that's surfaced that appears to be directly attributable to the man himself... you can bet your life that Chapman will have wanted to vet the editorial content of the film before it was released and wouldn't have taken kindly to such a suggestion if it was merely a joke on the part of the BBC production team.
I'm willing to believe it unless someone comes up with a more definitive explanation, and in practice that would mean Hazel or (possibly) Clive.
From what I understand Colin Chapman was always very guarded about the real reason he picked the Lotus name for the second special that he built,and was asked so by journalists many times before and after the Millionaire documentry was filmed which deep sixes the bathroom stuff which I believe was a derogatory theory dreamed up by his competition .
In the documentry they were joking with the alledged origin of the name to thumb their noses at Chapmans detractors.
My theory like a few others is that it probably came from a nickname he had for Hazel (Mrs.Chapman)"little Lotus Blossom" which is made more plausable to me by the fact that many specials and sportscars of the era were given womens names and/ or names connected with the fairer sex as terms of indearment, Archie Scott Brown named his car "Emma" for example and of course Eric Broadlys "Lola" and Frank Nichols "Elva" and "Ginetta"to name a few.
Lotus could have also have possibly been an anagram or play on words , also common in motorsports, Marcos, Cosworth, March, Arrows etc.
It just has made me cringe the ammount of times people have dragged up the old Lotus being named after a toilet chestnut, but If it makes you feel good to think that go ahead.
In the documentry they were joking with the alledged origin of the name to thumb their noses at Chapmans detractors.
My theory like a few others is that it probably came from a nickname he had for Hazel (Mrs.Chapman)"little Lotus Blossom" which is made more plausable to me by the fact that many specials and sportscars of the era were given womens names and/ or names connected with the fairer sex as terms of indearment, Archie Scott Brown named his car "Emma" for example and of course Eric Broadlys "Lola" and Frank Nichols "Elva" and "Ginetta"to name a few.
Lotus could have also have possibly been an anagram or play on words , also common in motorsports, Marcos, Cosworth, March, Arrows etc.
It just has made me cringe the ammount of times people have dragged up the old Lotus being named after a toilet chestnut, but If it makes you feel good to think that go ahead.
Edited by WayneB on Thursday 21st February 20:15
Edited by WayneB on Thursday 21st February 20:21
Thanks for the possible explanation as to why the video has been 'removed'.
I am on the side of TheLastPost, very eloquently put and totally believable.
WayneB, like one or two other's that have commented on the bathroom fitment explanation, appear to have a complex about driving a great car with a name picked off a tap! (so what?)
I am on the side of TheLastPost, very eloquently put and totally believable.
WayneB, like one or two other's that have commented on the bathroom fitment explanation, appear to have a complex about driving a great car with a name picked off a tap! (so what?)
WayneB said:
In the documentry they were joking with the alledged origin of the name to thumb their noses at Chapmans detractors.
You know this and have evidence to prove it, or are you just speculating?WayneB said:
My theory like a few others is that it probably came from a nickname he had for Hazel (Mrs.Chapman)"little Lotus Blossom"
You know this and have evidence to prove it, or are you just speculating?Like I said, in the absence of a more definitive explanation, or at the very least a firm denial by someone who would know...
It's always good to hear other people's view on the source of the LOTUS name and I just heard from an old friend who had always said the name came from a bathroom fitment. Here's what he remembers:
"I heard the original interview on the John Dunn radio 2 program in the 70's, he said he (CC)was laying in
bath and trying to think of a name for his new company ..looked at name on the taps and said
...that's as good a name as anything. The reason I remember this so clearly is I was laying in the bath listening
to the interview at the time!"
Now, anyone got a copy of the John Dunn interview?
"I heard the original interview on the John Dunn radio 2 program in the 70's, he said he (CC)was laying in
bath and trying to think of a name for his new company ..looked at name on the taps and said
...that's as good a name as anything. The reason I remember this so clearly is I was laying in the bath listening
to the interview at the time!"
Now, anyone got a copy of the John Dunn interview?
First of all it doesn't matter why Colin Chapman called the company Lotus, the point is he did Its as unique as the man himself.
Wiki says http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Chapman " He named the car "Lotus"; he never confirmed the reason but one (of several) theories is that it was after his then girlfriend (later wife) Hazel, whom he nicknamed "Lotus blossom"
If you want to take it to another level, a Budhist would view a Lotus flower as "Lotuses are symbols of purity and 'spontaneous' generation and hence symbolize divine birth".
Wiki says http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Chapman " He named the car "Lotus"; he never confirmed the reason but one (of several) theories is that it was after his then girlfriend (later wife) Hazel, whom he nicknamed "Lotus blossom"
If you want to take it to another level, a Budhist would view a Lotus flower as "Lotuses are symbols of purity and 'spontaneous' generation and hence symbolize divine birth".
Toaster said:
...he never confirmed the reason...
The point of this thread being that there appears to be have a first hand, period account (in the form of a BBC television documentary) that states the reason, citing Chapman himself as the source.Dorchester's John Dunn radio interview, if it is correctly recollected, seems to corroborate this, again citing Chapman as the direct source.
I don't think I've ever heard it even suggested that ACBC was a buddhist.
TheLastPost said:
The point of this thread being that there appears to be have a first hand,
The problem is Its still anecdotal and second hand (it cant be first hand otherwise it would be a ACBC quote), and as far as 'theories' go unless the family confirm or otherwise its just another theory. However if you choose that is the 'truth' then I am not going to try and dissuade you or anyone else for that matter. One reason for this is its not provable in the same way that neither is any other theory about the name, and it really doesn't matter....... Oh and the Buddhist part, I can start roumers with the best of them just come back to this thread in 30 years :-D
Edited by Toaster on Tuesday 5th March 20:39
Toaster said:
The problem is Its still anecdotal
It is less anecdotal than any other 'theory'. It has been reported (twice, apparently) by the BBC - the most credible media source in the world, back then - and as I've said previously, it would be inconceivable that a control freak like ACBC wouldn't have insisted on a right of veto on editorial content.Yes, it's just another unconfirmed hypothesis, but it's the most credible and substantiated hypothesis available, and will remain so unless Hazel breaks her silence.
But then it's not so long since you were promoting an article that claimed Chapman died crashing his own light aircraft and characterised him as 'cloth cap and tweed with an oily rag in his pocket' as a soundly researched potted history of the company.
TheLastPost said:
It is less anecdotal than any other 'theory'.
But then it's not so long since you were promoting an article
First of can I think you for viewing this as anecdotal, the second point regarding the article I pointed out it was well written what I did not say was I agreed with it and you will note I was asking for views as I said 'what do you think' which you have done. So the no problem here thenBut then it's not so long since you were promoting an article
Toaster said:
First of can I think you for viewing this as anecdotal
My gobbledegook is a bit rusty, but if I'm understanding you correctly: of course it's anecdotal. Unless you have directly seen/heard something yourself, all information is anecdotal.I hear this morning that Hugo Chavez, President of Venezuala, has died. It was reported by the BBC who I trust as a generally quite reliable source of information.
More reliable than, say, someone who suggests that Chapman spent most of his life wearing tweed and died when his own aeroplane crashed.
TheLastPost said:
My gobbledegook is a bit rusty, but if I'm understanding you correctly: of course it's anecdotal. Unless you have directly seen/heard something yourself, all information is anecdotal.
Erm no anecdotal or empirical is not gobbledegook Evidence can be empirical, but what you are quoting is hearsay which may or may not be true. how can a comment on a program even a BBC one be fact without the evidence which in this case would be Mr Chapman or others reliably confirming what he said on other occasions.
Just to provide a bit more amusement from the BBC themselves regarding the cloth cap
http://news.bbc.co.uk/dna/place-lancashire/plain/A...
Over the next 24 years, Chapman's moustache and cloth cap (which he threw into the air whenever Team Lotus won a race) would become familiar at tracksides around the world.
Ok so here is a BBC reference to Colin chapman now if we take this as evidence of what Colin Chapman did and wore at races I am at a loss to understand if it was his Moustache or cloth cap which he threw in to the air at races. ;-)
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