1990 Excel SE as daily driver
Discussion
Should I, or shouldn't I?
The car in question appears to be in pristine condition, having been looked after with intense care by its current owner since 1996.
I am not bothered by high (ish- 90,000 in 21 years) mileage in a well maintained car, although I wonder if I might need to anticipate re-doing the top end of the engine if I buy the car, knowing what I do about Lotus twin cams. This has the late version of the 2.2 litre slant four, rated at 180 BHP.
The up front cost of the car is modest (high end for an Excel, but this isn't the usual ratty one), and it could live outdoors (with a cover). I must confess that I am tempted. I do not want an Esprit, as my budget would only run to a dogeared one, and the running costs would, I anticipate , be greater than they would be for an Excel.
I add that my previous Lotus experience is with cars from the 1970s (and a couple of borrowed weekend Elises). This would be a first step into wedgeworld.
Has anyone tried living with one of these creations on a regular basis? I am sanguine about breakdowns, within reason, as a 21 year old car is a 21 year old car.
The car in question appears to be in pristine condition, having been looked after with intense care by its current owner since 1996.
I am not bothered by high (ish- 90,000 in 21 years) mileage in a well maintained car, although I wonder if I might need to anticipate re-doing the top end of the engine if I buy the car, knowing what I do about Lotus twin cams. This has the late version of the 2.2 litre slant four, rated at 180 BHP.
The up front cost of the car is modest (high end for an Excel, but this isn't the usual ratty one), and it could live outdoors (with a cover). I must confess that I am tempted. I do not want an Esprit, as my budget would only run to a dogeared one, and the running costs would, I anticipate , be greater than they would be for an Excel.
I add that my previous Lotus experience is with cars from the 1970s (and a couple of borrowed weekend Elises). This would be a first step into wedgeworld.
Has anyone tried living with one of these creations on a regular basis? I am sanguine about breakdowns, within reason, as a 21 year old car is a 21 year old car.
I think it was/is Mike Causer who has run these things for years and is quite a fan of them. From what I remember he used his both on track and as a daily driver and is a very practical and knowledgeable guy. There's also an excel forum where you might pick up a few more ideas. ( http://www.lotusexcel.net/phpbb/index.php)
Personally I keep looking at them and thinking "what a great car for the money, it must be the best bargain around today". Toyota parts, last of the line, comfortable, very practical to live with and presumably no design quirks left by the 90s.
But then I think of the 20-25mpg that a mate used to get from his similar engined Elite and go off the idea. If your daily mileage is low then yes, it's an appealing prospect. But I can't see them appreciating in value like the Esprit so you've got to really want one.
Personally I keep looking at them and thinking "what a great car for the money, it must be the best bargain around today". Toyota parts, last of the line, comfortable, very practical to live with and presumably no design quirks left by the 90s.
But then I think of the 20-25mpg that a mate used to get from his similar engined Elite and go off the idea. If your daily mileage is low then yes, it's an appealing prospect. But I can't see them appreciating in value like the Esprit so you've got to really want one.
20 to 25 mpg would be very heaven. One of my favourite possessions is my Interceptor (the modest 6.3 rather than the thirsty 7.2, so that's all right then), and my modern runabout is an 11 year old 156 with the V6 2.5 litre petrol slurper in it. The Upper Street Shell garage loves me.
PS: I love Dellortos, but I wonder how much/how practical a fuel injection conversion would be for such a car?
I am lurking on excel.net even as we speak.
PS: I love Dellortos, but I wonder how much/how practical a fuel injection conversion would be for such a car?
I am lurking on excel.net even as we speak.
12000 miles a year in mine, for the last 6 years. It had some problems to start with (mostly through neglect before I got it). Now, it's as reliable and usable as a modern car, so it is my main transport and our preferred choice for longer trips too.
Watch out for rotten door beams and bodged electrical repairs. Don't worry too much if headlining is sagging (they all do it and it can be replaced at home over a weekend). 205/50/15 tyres are a decent alternative to the correct (rocking horse poo rarity at times) 215/50/15s.
Engine - mine had a rebuild at 120k miles and was only just starting to show signs of needing it (Lotus were selling the parts off on ebay...). Head does benefit from a certain amount of cleaning/"de-coking" occasionally, due to the lack of valve stem seals though.
The carbs are nice and reliable (rarely go off tune) but fuel injection can be done for around 2k. Mike Taylor and Gary Kemp have both done it in the past and I know that Mike has an "off the shelf" kit available.
Watch out for rotten door beams and bodged electrical repairs. Don't worry too much if headlining is sagging (they all do it and it can be replaced at home over a weekend). 205/50/15 tyres are a decent alternative to the correct (rocking horse poo rarity at times) 215/50/15s.
Engine - mine had a rebuild at 120k miles and was only just starting to show signs of needing it (Lotus were selling the parts off on ebay...). Head does benefit from a certain amount of cleaning/"de-coking" occasionally, due to the lack of valve stem seals though.
The carbs are nice and reliable (rarely go off tune) but fuel injection can be done for around 2k. Mike Taylor and Gary Kemp have both done it in the past and I know that Mike has an "off the shelf" kit available.
Edited by marshalla on Saturday 17th March 09:55
I run an Lotus (Esprit) and an Alfa 156 v6, funny as Pat H does something similar
Esprit is a daily runabout, week on, week off depending on weather really but it has 119,000 on it and had an engine refresh at 90k when lotus sold piston/liners for 450 for 4 (a sale at Bristol) instead of 550 EACH!!
The ones that came out were worn but good, also the mains/big ends were the same.
I hear the Excels (late ones) are Uber reliable if looked after and are good ownership prospects providing headling/door issues are sorted.
Esprit is a daily runabout, week on, week off depending on weather really but it has 119,000 on it and had an engine refresh at 90k when lotus sold piston/liners for 450 for 4 (a sale at Bristol) instead of 550 EACH!!
The ones that came out were worn but good, also the mains/big ends were the same.
I hear the Excels (late ones) are Uber reliable if looked after and are good ownership prospects providing headling/door issues are sorted.
Just do it, I ran one for 2 years as a daily and as said once you get the p.o. "maintenance" sorted they just keep going, my brother then seeing mine used daily bought one and ran his for even longer and in turn my trigger was a friend running his daily. Of course you need to keep on top of things but as you ran a breadvan which is probably the most labour intensive Lotus the least intensive will be a doddle!
I am more than very tempted, and, having looked at a couple of slightly iffy ones already, if the car that I have my eye on lives up to its description, then I suspect that I may be updating my PH Garage page in the near future.
Keeping the lovely old Breadvan was a just a tiny bit like running a (Supermarine, not Triumph! ) Spitfire at Duxford. For every hour in the air, a Spit spends many hours in the shed being fiddled with. Obviously, the cash wonga numbers involved with the Europa were much, much lower, but it did see a fair amount of spanner action. I shall still have another one some day, however. Me, I love pain, me.
I add that the Europa was, like a Spitfire, also small, elegant, and able to duff up Germans, as some chap in a 1973 911 discovered one fine day on a B road "somewhere in England".
BTW, I am not going to buy the white Excel currently on eBay at about 2K ish, but it looks like it might possibly be worth someone having a gamble on. Always hard to say, however, and I don't think that I would ever buy a Lotus at auction. I was tempted two years ago by an ex-Lotus Cars Eclat with tiny mileage, in JPS colours, at a (real, non internet) auction, but I thought better of it.
Keeping the lovely old Breadvan was a just a tiny bit like running a (Supermarine, not Triumph! ) Spitfire at Duxford. For every hour in the air, a Spit spends many hours in the shed being fiddled with. Obviously, the cash wonga numbers involved with the Europa were much, much lower, but it did see a fair amount of spanner action. I shall still have another one some day, however. Me, I love pain, me.
I add that the Europa was, like a Spitfire, also small, elegant, and able to duff up Germans, as some chap in a 1973 911 discovered one fine day on a B road "somewhere in England".
BTW, I am not going to buy the white Excel currently on eBay at about 2K ish, but it looks like it might possibly be worth someone having a gamble on. Always hard to say, however, and I don't think that I would ever buy a Lotus at auction. I was tempted two years ago by an ex-Lotus Cars Eclat with tiny mileage, in JPS colours, at a (real, non internet) auction, but I thought better of it.
Edited by Breadvan73 on Sunday 18th March 18:44
I had a late Celebration Excel for a few years and it was a complete pleasure to own and drive daily. Fantastically reliable engine, air con, comfy seats and the special feeling of a Lotus chassis every morning on the way to work. Great for longer journeys too.
As other's have noted - doors can be a problem - the door bars rust and, once rusted cannot be adjusted or repaired without a fairly major bit of engineering. Besides the all out repair, check for noise/draughts at high speed. Tyres are obscure and expensive. Electrics on mine were surprisingly good, apart from the Clarion radio.
The one thing I found to my cost is that rats eat fibreglass cars and their electrics. Keep an eye out for vermin around your garage!
As other's have noted - doors can be a problem - the door bars rust and, once rusted cannot be adjusted or repaired without a fairly major bit of engineering. Besides the all out repair, check for noise/draughts at high speed. Tyres are obscure and expensive. Electrics on mine were surprisingly good, apart from the Clarion radio.
The one thing I found to my cost is that rats eat fibreglass cars and their electrics. Keep an eye out for vermin around your garage!
Tuna said:
Tyres are obscure and expensive.
We've (Excel owners) taken some advice from Lotus & insurers on that issue. Dunlop SP9000 or Toyo R888 are available in the correct 215/50/15 size - but the Dunlops are expensive & difficult to source at times and the Toyos are a subject of debate about wet weather performance.Factory advice is to go to 205/50/15 or 225/50/15 (with a note that 225 will rub on the front arches on lock). Insurers are generally OK with a change of size as long as it doesn't affect performance (but always check with yours first).
I've been using 205/50/15 Avon ZV5s on mine for 3 years now - rolling radius seems to be virtually identical to 215s (speedo is 100% accurate at least), a bit high wear (6000 miles out of a set on the rear, no significant wear on the front) and about 1/3 the price of Dunlops. Others are happy with Kumho and various other brands.
Tyres for the earlier 14" wheels are pretty much impossible to source now.
Edited by marshalla on Tuesday 20th March 11:45
The car that I am interested in has the Dunlops, but I do not yet know how old (in years, as opposed to wear) they are.
Of course, back then fifteen inch alloys were blingarama. Not so long ago, a little boy pointed to my Europa (thirteen inch factory alloys with smart looking Goodyear Eagles) and asked "Why are its wheels so small?" "Sports cars had small wheels back then, son" said his dad. The PimpaCorsa boys over in the main PH room would look askance.
As for low profiles, I like the tallish Bridgestone tyres on my Jensen's fourteen inch Ro-Styles.
Of course, back then fifteen inch alloys were blingarama. Not so long ago, a little boy pointed to my Europa (thirteen inch factory alloys with smart looking Goodyear Eagles) and asked "Why are its wheels so small?" "Sports cars had small wheels back then, son" said his dad. The PimpaCorsa boys over in the main PH room would look askance.
As for low profiles, I like the tallish Bridgestone tyres on my Jensen's fourteen inch Ro-Styles.
Edited by Breadvan73 on Tuesday 20th March 12:14
Nice colour combination too.
Thanks, it is!
This car is mintier than a minty thing from the mint garden, and is minted up with fresh minty mintedness. Look at the original lacquer inside the engine bay! 97,000 miles, but lovingly cared for by two owners and hardly worn. It needs a new exhaust, and the butterfly valves are a bit sticky. The aircon could do with regassing. Otherwise, flawless. It drives beautifully. I shall keep it off street at night, and drive it quite often, but not daily. It may even go to Italy in August. I am torn between this one and my Lancia Beta Spider for the trip. I was going to take my Elan, but that might be too much hassle.
This car is mintier than a minty thing from the mint garden, and is minted up with fresh minty mintedness. Look at the original lacquer inside the engine bay! 97,000 miles, but lovingly cared for by two owners and hardly worn. It needs a new exhaust, and the butterfly valves are a bit sticky. The aircon could do with regassing. Otherwise, flawless. It drives beautifully. I shall keep it off street at night, and drive it quite often, but not daily. It may even go to Italy in August. I am torn between this one and my Lancia Beta Spider for the trip. I was going to take my Elan, but that might be too much hassle.
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