Lotus Group for Sale!?
Discussion
Well the Sunday Times has a report on the front of its business section today. Bahar is looking for someone to come up with a load of money to finance his plans and essentially buy the company...
Suggestion is that GENII capita (who actually own the Lotus F1 team!) have done due diligence and are pushing ahead with plans to buy!
Hopefully its goodbye Bahar and his crazy PR and realistic plans to move the company forward without the bahar marketing.
Suggestion is that GENII capita (who actually own the Lotus F1 team!) have done due diligence and are pushing ahead with plans to buy!
Hopefully its goodbye Bahar and his crazy PR and realistic plans to move the company forward without the bahar marketing.
Jeez, please tell me you're not one of those people so lacking in any sort of worldly skills that you've bought in to this total hype ? It's very easy to look good endlessly spending other people's money . It's been fun, but it's got to be close to game over ? At least the CEO has a nice recently renewed four year contract in his pocket, sad for all the "Lotus lifers" up at Hethal, who probably don't .
Scuffers said:
OK, here's a prediction for you..
in 6 years time, if Lotus Cars are still alive (as a car making company in Norfolk), I bet Danny-boy is not there.
That's a daft prediction. If he does well, he'll be head-hunted or move on to the next challenge. If he does badly, he's out. Either way the likelihood of just about any CEO being with a company like Lotus in six years time is nil.in 6 years time, if Lotus Cars are still alive (as a car making company in Norfolk), I bet Danny-boy is not there.
Eliser said:
Erm please tell where he has moved Lotus on in 'leaps and bounds' - except in the emptying of Proton coffers dept!!
Taken from the story that was recently on the PH front page - "Lotus hasn't made a profit since Proton acquired it in 1996". On top of that they created a car that nobody wants to buy - the Evora. So I wouldn't say the previous management had any clue how to run the company either. Bahar was / is trying to change their market segment.Question: What would you do if you were running Lotus to return them to profitability?
To turn Lotus to profit?
1) I would carry out Bahars plan but I would commit initially to 3 new cars (Esprit, Elan and the Eterne or equivalents i.e. Boxster/Caymen territory, 911 territory and Panamera territory)
2) I would spend money on F1 and Le Mans GT only (I would have made friends with Tony F and given him a stake in Lotus and let him spend his money and some Lotus)
3) I would not hire Swiss Cheese, Gino Rosatto or any of the other no skilled people he has
4) I would contract Lotus Engineering to do the work and not spend the money outside the Lotus Group. They would do the engine, suspension etc
5) I would not open shops on Regent street
6) I would not sponsor IRL, GP3, GP2, LMP2 or Norwich city FC
7) I would not take helicopters everywhere
8) I would not have spent a fortune on a new test track, update maybe but not what was done
9) I would not employ aload of overpaid people from Porsche, Ferrari, AMG etc. Maybe 1 or 2 well picked not the arrogant tools he has
10) I would have started the Evora, Elise, Exige update plan when I started in 2009, not after 18months. Current cars sales and breaking even are prime goals for longterm success
11) I would stop giving cars away to celebrities who have no interest in the cars or brand, just the money or a free meal/trip etc.
12) I would allow the employees to share in the potential future of the company with a share scheme
If I gave it some thought I am sure there is more I would have done. Vision is the easy part, making it successful with the right finance is difficult and that is where Bahar falls over.
1) I would carry out Bahars plan but I would commit initially to 3 new cars (Esprit, Elan and the Eterne or equivalents i.e. Boxster/Caymen territory, 911 territory and Panamera territory)
2) I would spend money on F1 and Le Mans GT only (I would have made friends with Tony F and given him a stake in Lotus and let him spend his money and some Lotus)
3) I would not hire Swiss Cheese, Gino Rosatto or any of the other no skilled people he has
4) I would contract Lotus Engineering to do the work and not spend the money outside the Lotus Group. They would do the engine, suspension etc
5) I would not open shops on Regent street
6) I would not sponsor IRL, GP3, GP2, LMP2 or Norwich city FC
7) I would not take helicopters everywhere
8) I would not have spent a fortune on a new test track, update maybe but not what was done
9) I would not employ aload of overpaid people from Porsche, Ferrari, AMG etc. Maybe 1 or 2 well picked not the arrogant tools he has
10) I would have started the Evora, Elise, Exige update plan when I started in 2009, not after 18months. Current cars sales and breaking even are prime goals for longterm success
11) I would stop giving cars away to celebrities who have no interest in the cars or brand, just the money or a free meal/trip etc.
12) I would allow the employees to share in the potential future of the company with a share scheme
If I gave it some thought I am sure there is more I would have done. Vision is the easy part, making it successful with the right finance is difficult and that is where Bahar falls over.
devils advocate -
you are getting ahead of yourself.
some of those points mentioned arguably may help attract a better owner than proton which is what i think will happen as opposed to a vehicle that's going to strip it .. so long term DB is beneficial.
and frankly, for the demise of the co i would look to blame the chaps in management pre DB as there's a bit of short sightedness here....
they had the best part of historically the easiest cycle in history for raising funds, yet instead arguably kept their heads in the sand and chose to flog a dead horse in the same markets for so long .... look at relative growth of other co's during the same cycle and why.
the period on the end of 09 to date only plays a small part in the situation ... but then again anyone paid big bucks is always despised in this country ... so its gotta be his fault..........right?
rookie errors all round im afraid.
you are getting ahead of yourself.
some of those points mentioned arguably may help attract a better owner than proton which is what i think will happen as opposed to a vehicle that's going to strip it .. so long term DB is beneficial.
and frankly, for the demise of the co i would look to blame the chaps in management pre DB as there's a bit of short sightedness here....
they had the best part of historically the easiest cycle in history for raising funds, yet instead arguably kept their heads in the sand and chose to flog a dead horse in the same markets for so long .... look at relative growth of other co's during the same cycle and why.
the period on the end of 09 to date only plays a small part in the situation ... but then again anyone paid big bucks is always despised in this country ... so its gotta be his fault..........right?
rookie errors all round im afraid.
RoySlater said:
To turn Lotus to profit?
1) I would carry out Bahars plan but I would commit initially to 3 new cars (Esprit, Elan and the Eterne or equivalents i.e. Boxster/Caymen territory, 911 territory and Panamera territory)
2) I would spend money on F1 and Le Mans GT only (I would have made friends with Tony F and given him a stake in Lotus and let him spend his money and some Lotus)
3) I would not hire Swiss Cheese, Gino Rosatto or any of the other no skilled people he has
4) I would contract Lotus Engineering to do the work and not spend the money outside the Lotus Group. They would do the engine, suspension etc
5) I would not open shops on Regent street
6) I would not sponsor IRL, GP3, GP2, LMP2 or Norwich city FC
7) I would not take helicopters everywhere
8) I would not have spent a fortune on a new test track, update maybe but not what was done
9) I would not employ aload of overpaid people from Porsche, Ferrari, AMG etc. Maybe 1 or 2 well picked not the arrogant tools he has
10) I would have started the Evora, Elise, Exige update plan when I started in 2009, not after 18months. Current cars sales and breaking even are prime goals for longterm success
11) I would stop giving cars away to celebrities who have no interest in the cars or brand, just the money or a free meal/trip etc.
12) I would allow the employees to share in the potential future of the company with a share scheme
If I gave it some thought I am sure there is more I would have done. Vision is the easy part, making it successful with the right finance is difficult and that is where Bahar falls over.
1) I would carry out Bahars plan but I would commit initially to 3 new cars (Esprit, Elan and the Eterne or equivalents i.e. Boxster/Caymen territory, 911 territory and Panamera territory)
2) I would spend money on F1 and Le Mans GT only (I would have made friends with Tony F and given him a stake in Lotus and let him spend his money and some Lotus)
3) I would not hire Swiss Cheese, Gino Rosatto or any of the other no skilled people he has
4) I would contract Lotus Engineering to do the work and not spend the money outside the Lotus Group. They would do the engine, suspension etc
5) I would not open shops on Regent street
6) I would not sponsor IRL, GP3, GP2, LMP2 or Norwich city FC
7) I would not take helicopters everywhere
8) I would not have spent a fortune on a new test track, update maybe but not what was done
9) I would not employ aload of overpaid people from Porsche, Ferrari, AMG etc. Maybe 1 or 2 well picked not the arrogant tools he has
10) I would have started the Evora, Elise, Exige update plan when I started in 2009, not after 18months. Current cars sales and breaking even are prime goals for longterm success
11) I would stop giving cars away to celebrities who have no interest in the cars or brand, just the money or a free meal/trip etc.
12) I would allow the employees to share in the potential future of the company with a share scheme
If I gave it some thought I am sure there is more I would have done. Vision is the easy part, making it successful with the right finance is difficult and that is where Bahar falls over.
Edited by bobo on Tuesday 31st January 09:40
ravon said:
Jeez, please tell me you're not one of those people so lacking in any sort of worldly skills that you've bought in to this total hype ? It's very easy to look good endlessly spending other people's money . It's been fun, but it's got to be close to game over ? At least the CEO has a nice recently renewed four year contract in his pocket, sad for all the "Lotus lifers" up at Hethal, who probably don't .
Nope, just more intelligent than you which is why I understand everything he is doing and you don't. He's effectively launching the company from scratch, you can't do that on 10 pence. It costs serious amounts of money. Do it right and you'll be laughing all the way to the bank. I don't see Ferrari, Porsche, Lambo etc crying into their piggy banks. They all invested heavily and look where they are now. Perhaps the plans were a bit OTT but if he does half of it it'll be a thousand miles ahead of the last 20 years. People are b
hing about where the cars are but are too stupid to understand that it takes time to produce the cars to the quality required. Just tell me that you don't think Lotus should produce little lightweight sports cars forever!
Frimley 111, this is the second time you've been rather rude about me "Nope, just more intelligent than you", and again on SELOC a few weeks ago. I reply in the same way, "you don't know me, you no nothing about me", and I add your rudeness probably explains why you have only achieved only "a marketing manager" status. If you want to meet me in person for a civilised adult conversation, please do contact me, then you will be in a position to consider if you are "more intelligent" than me. Until that you look a little tragic.
Berw said:
Lotus are now owned by Hicom, who have tech deals with VW and Suzuki, they announced that they were open to discussing the sale of Lotus within hours of the purchase. Story on the street is that VW have reopened thier talks to be tec partner to Proton.
10+ years ago, VW could have a use for Lotus, now, in 2012, I don't see it."Not open shops on Regent St"
Oh dear, here we go again.
Soooo, merchandising of this nature has really harmed Ferarri and harley Davidson?? Harley, for one make more money out of P&A than bikes....
It creates desire for future high earners, lotterey winners, etc
What is wrong with bringing the brand to the general public? Not everyone knows the brand, the cars....
Like Harley, ferrari, etc Lotus should police the brand and prevent anyone not directly connected with the factory from using their logo etc.
They will have done due dilligence on the shop beforehand. This stuff is very profitable (and you don't get warranty claims!!)
Oh dear, here we go again.
Soooo, merchandising of this nature has really harmed Ferarri and harley Davidson?? Harley, for one make more money out of P&A than bikes....
It creates desire for future high earners, lotterey winners, etc
What is wrong with bringing the brand to the general public? Not everyone knows the brand, the cars....
Like Harley, ferrari, etc Lotus should police the brand and prevent anyone not directly connected with the factory from using their logo etc.
They will have done due dilligence on the shop beforehand. This stuff is very profitable (and you don't get warranty claims!!)
Frimley111R said:
Perhaps the plans were a bit OTT but if he does half of it it'll be a thousand miles ahead of the last 20 years. People are bhing about where the cars are but are too stupid to understand that it takes time to produce the cars to the quality required.
Just tell me that you don't think Lotus should produce little lightweight sports cars forever!
I agree with this. Lotus need a total revamp and a mass of investment. They can't carry on as they have done since year dot. The world has moved on and has eventually caught up and is swallowing Lotus. It would be nice if a lightweight car was part of their future plans but they have to move with the times.hing about where the cars are but are too stupid to understand that it takes time to produce the cars to the quality required. Just tell me that you don't think Lotus should produce little lightweight sports cars forever!
The list of 12 remedies is the best laugh i've had on here for a long time. No offence intended.
I can see the Lotus board now, back in 2009 when they were looking for a successor for MJK;
"Right guys, we've narrowed it down to two people, Dany Bahar and Roy Slater. OK then, lets start with Dany Bahar, he was Red Bull’s Chief Operating Officer from 2003 to 2007, where he oversaw and was responsible for the overall corporate business development with emphasis on marketing, sales and events. While there, he developed the two-prong F1 entry strategy with Red Bull Racing (formerly Team Jaguar) and the establishment of Scuderia Toro Rosso (Red Bull Racing is the “A-team”, and Toro Rosso is designed to develop new drivers).
He set-up the departments for both teams, including the hiring of key personnel, and developed the commercial and marketing strategy and activities for both entities, by introducing paddock hospitality areas for key clients, and Formula Unas to boost excitement of F1. He holds an MBA from MC Institute of Vevey/Lausanne.
From 2007 to 2009, he was the senior vice-president of the Sales, Marketing and Communications department for Ferrari SpA. His activities at Ferrari included Launching flagship stores to highlight the brand attributes and to providing the customer with a 360 degree Ferrari experience; introducing the Ferrari Artelier (an area within flagship stores where customers can feel and experience the type of customisation offered); organising a structured programme for owners to experience their products, including driving schools, weekend drives, test drives and several racing series; introducing “A Night With F1” whereby 25 most loyal Ferrari customers are invited to dine with the Ferrari F1 team; boosting the merchandising business by 70% and Launching financial services for Ferrari; providing customers with financing options for their cars.
Then we have Roy Slater from Northamptonshire."
"Who the f**ks Roy Slater?"
"Exactly, lets get Dany Boy in and see what he can do...."
My opinion has always been, 'you're only as good as your last job', he's not done bad for the time he's been there has he? If there's one thing everyone moans about on PH is people not delivering on promises, so far, he's done what he's said and delivered it on or before time, you can't really say fairer than that can you? As for the Swizz Beatz situation, I'd never heard of him until Lotus got involved, living in NYC i asked a few of my PR associates and they all knew who he was, but didn't know too much about Lotus, but guess what, they do now.
"Right guys, we've narrowed it down to two people, Dany Bahar and Roy Slater. OK then, lets start with Dany Bahar, he was Red Bull’s Chief Operating Officer from 2003 to 2007, where he oversaw and was responsible for the overall corporate business development with emphasis on marketing, sales and events. While there, he developed the two-prong F1 entry strategy with Red Bull Racing (formerly Team Jaguar) and the establishment of Scuderia Toro Rosso (Red Bull Racing is the “A-team”, and Toro Rosso is designed to develop new drivers).
He set-up the departments for both teams, including the hiring of key personnel, and developed the commercial and marketing strategy and activities for both entities, by introducing paddock hospitality areas for key clients, and Formula Unas to boost excitement of F1. He holds an MBA from MC Institute of Vevey/Lausanne.
From 2007 to 2009, he was the senior vice-president of the Sales, Marketing and Communications department for Ferrari SpA. His activities at Ferrari included Launching flagship stores to highlight the brand attributes and to providing the customer with a 360 degree Ferrari experience; introducing the Ferrari Artelier (an area within flagship stores where customers can feel and experience the type of customisation offered); organising a structured programme for owners to experience their products, including driving schools, weekend drives, test drives and several racing series; introducing “A Night With F1” whereby 25 most loyal Ferrari customers are invited to dine with the Ferrari F1 team; boosting the merchandising business by 70% and Launching financial services for Ferrari; providing customers with financing options for their cars.
Then we have Roy Slater from Northamptonshire."
"Who the f**ks Roy Slater?"
"Exactly, lets get Dany Boy in and see what he can do...."
My opinion has always been, 'you're only as good as your last job', he's not done bad for the time he's been there has he? If there's one thing everyone moans about on PH is people not delivering on promises, so far, he's done what he's said and delivered it on or before time, you can't really say fairer than that can you? As for the Swizz Beatz situation, I'd never heard of him until Lotus got involved, living in NYC i asked a few of my PR associates and they all knew who he was, but didn't know too much about Lotus, but guess what, they do now.
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