New Lotus. I'm (back) in.
Discussion
Putting irritants like the Swiss Beats thing to one side for a moment, it's hard to watch this video without thinking the new Lotus managment are doing a stand up job. I think they've pitched it just right between heritage and new developments. The Evora's getting better and better, they are back in motorsport in a big way, with a promising F1 car and the return to rallying is a welcome suprise. The new Exige V6 is potentially a masterstroke. Now the GT3 RS is north of €130k, the gaping £50-60k hole in the market has finally been filled with something of huge ability in the corners and serious performance on the straights to match. Looking at the below video of what they're up to and how they presented themselves at Frankfurt, I'm struggling to see what's not to like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BupkBKeC3A&fea...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BupkBKeC3A&fea...
Please enlighten me how they are exactly "back in motorsports in a big way". I thought you had to actually do something to be "back in" it, take F1 for instance. It was the sister company Team Lotus that was in F1, not the car company, and Group Lotus have never entered into F1 themselves.
And then there is the point that they are not in F1 now. They are sponsoring a team (as they did once with Team Lotus) that they do not own, which is in fact owned by Genii Capital. Group Lotus may sponsor teams in other forms of motorsport and claim it as theirs, but that is not how it works in F1.
They are totally disregarding key points of the companies history in what can only be called an ego trip by the new CEO, who is just a marketing man.
I am expecting his plans to go tits up, who is going to want to but a Lotus, a niche car, over a Ferrari.
And then by ending production of the existing cars is only going alienate their existing customers.
Who ever thought getting a guy that has been in both Ferrari and Red Bull and cost both of them lots of money thanks to his ideas is beyond me.
And then there is the point that they are not in F1 now. They are sponsoring a team (as they did once with Team Lotus) that they do not own, which is in fact owned by Genii Capital. Group Lotus may sponsor teams in other forms of motorsport and claim it as theirs, but that is not how it works in F1.
They are totally disregarding key points of the companies history in what can only be called an ego trip by the new CEO, who is just a marketing man.
I am expecting his plans to go tits up, who is going to want to but a Lotus, a niche car, over a Ferrari.
And then by ending production of the existing cars is only going alienate their existing customers.
Who ever thought getting a guy that has been in both Ferrari and Red Bull and cost both of them lots of money thanks to his ideas is beyond me.
the marking chap is simply leveraging off all opportunity, be it the F1 team, F1 history, past f1 drivers sorry ambassadors or now a lotus kart (sorry wildkard painted black and gold). but i suppose that's his job and fair play ... 99% of new consumers to the brand probably wont realise that so who cares.... its all about survival right now.
the GTE appears to be an extension of that and only a marketing tool to sell standard evoras and not a viable product.
but the rest is going in the right direction (well sort of). at least they are starting to produce cars that can go quicker than a tdi in in a straight line after 60 mph ... the v6 exige looks like the first proper lotus at a price and potential performance game changer but those lotus figures are always worth taking with a tonne of salt.
the current evora a great car but remains mis-priced for what it is - build - styling - performance, anyone thats had a few 60k plus sports cars can see it. sad but true. hes addressing that apparently. im hopeful they bring out a sorted standard evora with a lower price tag to satisfy the current s2 owners market thats getting on.
since i bought my s1's and then s1 exige nothing the company has produced has convinced me to go back and part with my hard earned, the products simply haven't been good enough to do so .... until the v6 exige that I have a deposit on. but if it doesn't do what it says on the tin ie 0-100mph in 8 seconds i probably wont get one.
porsche dont compete in F1 ... hasn't seem to hurt their 'racing pedigree'. the rally idea could work very well and the relative costs are low.... its a low risk idea imho.
they missed the trick of not having a revolutionary premium cool type city car in the market by now - that's a big BIG error - a potentially huge market and who wants to drive about in some deathtrap made in india! the tazzari group seem to have managed it on a budget ..... i still maintain they should have been selling those to the likes of me 4 years ago .... with a dedicated service point in the city of london/west end/paris/milan/ny/sao paolo ad infinium.
the biggest problem going forward is I remain unconvinced that the company still has the technical edge to produce a high end product like an esprit that can better its price rivals - and lets face it, that's been the biggest issue since the s1 and 1st federal elise ! how does the ceo deal with that?
the ceo hasn't had 'that many' options and has done well .... particularly in continuing to bring the brand to new markets as the domestic and euro markets certainly wont keep lotus afloat that's for sure ....
in short hes bought the company time and as much the bling haters moan/bleat off about swiss beats et al thats what counts if you dont have a real product at the right price that people want to buy.
...yet.
the GTE appears to be an extension of that and only a marketing tool to sell standard evoras and not a viable product.
but the rest is going in the right direction (well sort of). at least they are starting to produce cars that can go quicker than a tdi in in a straight line after 60 mph ... the v6 exige looks like the first proper lotus at a price and potential performance game changer but those lotus figures are always worth taking with a tonne of salt.
the current evora a great car but remains mis-priced for what it is - build - styling - performance, anyone thats had a few 60k plus sports cars can see it. sad but true. hes addressing that apparently. im hopeful they bring out a sorted standard evora with a lower price tag to satisfy the current s2 owners market thats getting on.
since i bought my s1's and then s1 exige nothing the company has produced has convinced me to go back and part with my hard earned, the products simply haven't been good enough to do so .... until the v6 exige that I have a deposit on. but if it doesn't do what it says on the tin ie 0-100mph in 8 seconds i probably wont get one.
porsche dont compete in F1 ... hasn't seem to hurt their 'racing pedigree'. the rally idea could work very well and the relative costs are low.... its a low risk idea imho.
they missed the trick of not having a revolutionary premium cool type city car in the market by now - that's a big BIG error - a potentially huge market and who wants to drive about in some deathtrap made in india! the tazzari group seem to have managed it on a budget ..... i still maintain they should have been selling those to the likes of me 4 years ago .... with a dedicated service point in the city of london/west end/paris/milan/ny/sao paolo ad infinium.
the biggest problem going forward is I remain unconvinced that the company still has the technical edge to produce a high end product like an esprit that can better its price rivals - and lets face it, that's been the biggest issue since the s1 and 1st federal elise ! how does the ceo deal with that?
the ceo hasn't had 'that many' options and has done well .... particularly in continuing to bring the brand to new markets as the domestic and euro markets certainly wont keep lotus afloat that's for sure ....
in short hes bought the company time and as much the bling haters moan/bleat off about swiss beats et al thats what counts if you dont have a real product at the right price that people want to buy.
...yet.
Peacockantony said:
Please enlighten me how they are exactly "back in motorsports in a big way". I thought you had to actually do something to be "back in" it, take F1 for instance. It was the sister company Team Lotus that was in F1, not the car company, and Group Lotus have never entered into F1 themselves.
And then there is the point that they are not in F1 now. They are sponsoring a team (as they did once with Team Lotus) that they do not own, which is in fact owned by Genii Capital. Group Lotus may sponsor teams in other forms of motorsport and claim it as theirs, but that is not how it works in F1.
They are totally disregarding key points of the companies history in what can only be called an ego trip by the new CEO, who is just a marketing man.
I am expecting his plans to go tits up, who is going to want to but a Lotus, a niche car, over a Ferrari.
And then by ending production of the existing cars is only going alienate their existing customers.
Who ever thought getting a guy that has been in both Ferrari and Red Bull and cost both of them lots of money thanks to his ideas is beyond me.
And then there is the point that they are not in F1 now. They are sponsoring a team (as they did once with Team Lotus) that they do not own, which is in fact owned by Genii Capital. Group Lotus may sponsor teams in other forms of motorsport and claim it as theirs, but that is not how it works in F1.
They are totally disregarding key points of the companies history in what can only be called an ego trip by the new CEO, who is just a marketing man.
I am expecting his plans to go tits up, who is going to want to but a Lotus, a niche car, over a Ferrari.
And then by ending production of the existing cars is only going alienate their existing customers.
Who ever thought getting a guy that has been in both Ferrari and Red Bull and cost both of them lots of money thanks to his ideas is beyond me.
Peacockantony said:
Please enlighten me how they are exactly "back in motorsports in a big way". I thought you had to actually do something to be "back in" it, take F1 for instance. It was the sister company Team Lotus that was in F1, not the car company, and Group Lotus have never entered into F1 themselves.
And then there is the point that they are not in F1 now. They are sponsoring a team (as they did once with Team Lotus) that they do not own, which is in fact owned by Genii Capital. Group Lotus may sponsor teams in other forms of motorsport and claim it as theirs, but that is not how it works in F1.
They are totally disregarding key points of the companies history in what can only be called an ego trip by the new CEO, who is just a marketing man.
I am expecting his plans to go tits up, who is going to want to but a Lotus, a niche car, over a Ferrari.
And then by ending production of the existing cars is only going alienate their existing customers.
Who ever thought getting a guy that has been in both Ferrari and Red Bull and cost both of them lots of money thanks to his ideas is beyond me.
I'd say being back in F1 alone is being back in motorsports in a big way. I think sponsoring and having their name associated with a decent F1 team is more valuable and a smarter use of resources than building your own F1 team from scratch and hobbling round at the back of the grid for a few years (like Team Lotus/Caterham). Recent results haven't been great but that car has been on the podium in Heidfeld's hands which means it might have been capable of winning with Kubica behind the wheel. The car also looks great, reminding people of Lotus's glory days in F1 and why on earth should they not do this?! Lotus have motorsports heritage Porsche could only dream about. To ignore that is to have no clue about the brand or marketing at all. All they need to do now is to get the commentators to stop referring the team as 'Renault'!And then there is the point that they are not in F1 now. They are sponsoring a team (as they did once with Team Lotus) that they do not own, which is in fact owned by Genii Capital. Group Lotus may sponsor teams in other forms of motorsport and claim it as theirs, but that is not how it works in F1.
They are totally disregarding key points of the companies history in what can only be called an ego trip by the new CEO, who is just a marketing man.
I am expecting his plans to go tits up, who is going to want to but a Lotus, a niche car, over a Ferrari.
And then by ending production of the existing cars is only going alienate their existing customers.
Who ever thought getting a guy that has been in both Ferrari and Red Bull and cost both of them lots of money thanks to his ideas is beyond me.
On top of F1 there are indycar projects, a rally program, an international GT3 and GT4 program done by the factory using road cars as a base and that includes a Le Mans entry last year, continued support for several series such as the Elise trophy plus the T125 single seater programme which may evolve into a one make series and now karting. You'd have to be a very mean spirited individual to deny this effort!
We will have to see if you're right to be such a doom monger but I think the £10.7m regional grant is good news as is the decision to build the new range in the UK. Bahar deserves some credit for that surely? He could far more easily taken production to somewhere nearer his native Switzerland. As for abandoning their traditional market I think the new Elise SC and Exige V6 say otherwise. The latter promises to be utterly sensational and much better value for money at £49k than the outgoing Exige S was at £40+k. Many on here, including me, were sceptical that it would be really be £49k (mainly because of the price of the Evora S which shares it's drivetrain) but it is available to order now at that price.
I see no reason for you to dismiss the possibility of success further up market. Lexus produced a £350k car (LF-A) out of the blue with zero heritage. By all accounts it's astonishingly good and I don't see anyone having a problem that it's a Lexus. Most admire them for having a go and doing such a good job. Ford have bags of heritage but no experience at producing a supercar but did a brilliant job at the first attempt with the GT. It's a genuine and serious Ferrari alternative with a Ford badge on the nose. The entirely unglamourous Nissan badge doesn't seem to deter GTR buyers either. Lotus are streets ahead of Nissan, Ford and Lexus in terms of brand appeal, expertise and heritage when it comes to sports cars.
If Lotus's high end cars are outstandingly good to drive (drive and Evora and you'll see why that's highly likely) and appeal to well-heeled people visually (crucial to get right, hard to predict) I reckon they might just pull it off. Yes they'll have to deliver on quality but they have the (ex-porsche) people in place to do that too. The Evora GTE is already showing that they can attract interest over £100k.
As for Bahar's ego I'm wondering if in fact Lotus couldn't use a bit of swagger about them. Out with the apologetic, introverted style of managment with low key launches, in the with something more sizzle, less sausage. Why shouldn't Lotus dream big and go balls out? I thought the video I posted (did you see that yet?) showed, I thought, that they got the balance between heritage and new products. It wasn't too flash and blingy but it was slick and well thought through. I found it very encouraging.
BTW bobo Dany Bahar hasn't bought Group Lotus, he was just appointed CEO, Proton owns GL, and have done since 1996.
Group Lotus aren't in F1! They are SPONSORING A TEAM IN F1. Big difference. To be in F1 you need to own and run a team, both of which they don't, they only sponsor a team that is owned by the investment company Genii Capital, Group Lotus have no past F1 team or F1 history, both of these belong to Team Lotus not Group.
Group Lotus/Lotus Cars and Team Lotus have always been separate companies, doing different things, owned by the same person, who used the same name on both.
Rolls Royce is just the same, two independent companies with the same name. 'Rolls-Royce plc' make the plane engines, and not the road cars, and 'Rolls-Royce Motor Cars' make the road cars, and not the plane engines.
And the commentator are 100% correct to call the team Renault, as Renault is still the official constructor name (although there is no involvement from the Renault car company), they kept this name so they didn't lose the money the team has earned. Commentators call the team by the constructor name and don't include the title sponsor, the way it should be, they never said Alonso drove the ING Renault.
RENAULT IS RENAULT. TEAM LOTUS IS LOTUS. Simple.
There is only one team competing in F1 that is officially Lotus. That is Team Lotus.
GL and their supporters may like to claim sponsorship as actual involvement, but us F1 fan do not.
GL are in the same ranks as Vodafone and AT&T, they sponsor a team. Marussia and Sahara are in a different position as they own part of the teams, and Virgin Racing is likely to become Marussia next year.
If the rumours are true and Lotus is becoming Caterham and Renault is becoming Lotus. I will still support Caterham, but will forever call the old Renault team 'Genii GP' (that is for the couple of years it is F1, before Genii realises it can't afford and sells it), GL can't afford to run an F1 team, they are deeply in debt, their current cars aren't selling enough, and their new cars are supposed to be competitors of Ferrari and Porsche, but who when they have the money to buy a Ferrari or a Porsche, is going to buy a car from a small British sports car maker, when they can have Ferrari or a Porsche.
Group Lotus aren't in F1! They are SPONSORING A TEAM IN F1. Big difference. To be in F1 you need to own and run a team, both of which they don't, they only sponsor a team that is owned by the investment company Genii Capital, Group Lotus have no past F1 team or F1 history, both of these belong to Team Lotus not Group.
Group Lotus/Lotus Cars and Team Lotus have always been separate companies, doing different things, owned by the same person, who used the same name on both.
Rolls Royce is just the same, two independent companies with the same name. 'Rolls-Royce plc' make the plane engines, and not the road cars, and 'Rolls-Royce Motor Cars' make the road cars, and not the plane engines.
And the commentator are 100% correct to call the team Renault, as Renault is still the official constructor name (although there is no involvement from the Renault car company), they kept this name so they didn't lose the money the team has earned. Commentators call the team by the constructor name and don't include the title sponsor, the way it should be, they never said Alonso drove the ING Renault.
RENAULT IS RENAULT. TEAM LOTUS IS LOTUS. Simple.
There is only one team competing in F1 that is officially Lotus. That is Team Lotus.
GL and their supporters may like to claim sponsorship as actual involvement, but us F1 fan do not.
GL are in the same ranks as Vodafone and AT&T, they sponsor a team. Marussia and Sahara are in a different position as they own part of the teams, and Virgin Racing is likely to become Marussia next year.
If the rumours are true and Lotus is becoming Caterham and Renault is becoming Lotus. I will still support Caterham, but will forever call the old Renault team 'Genii GP' (that is for the couple of years it is F1, before Genii realises it can't afford and sells it), GL can't afford to run an F1 team, they are deeply in debt, their current cars aren't selling enough, and their new cars are supposed to be competitors of Ferrari and Porsche, but who when they have the money to buy a Ferrari or a Porsche, is going to buy a car from a small British sports car maker, when they can have Ferrari or a Porsche.
Peacockantony said:
but who when they have the money to buy a Ferrari or a Porsche, is going to buy a car from a small British sports car maker, when they can have Ferrari or a Porsche.
A good number of the people who read this section of PH or have the patriotism, passion and performance desires met by many other small British sports car makers? Do you drive Antony, are you old enough to have a licence? Ever driven a Lotus, a Porsche of Ferrari? If you had driven any car whose dynamics appeal to the driver, you'd realise how way out such a comment is...Peacockantony said:
BTW bobo Dany Bahar hasn't bought Group Lotus, he was just appointed CEO, Proton owns GL, and have done since 1996.
i never said he did ... i take it your arnt familiar with the concept of indirect leverage and ownership.Edited by bobo on Thursday 3rd November 09:47
Peacockantony said:
GL and their supporters may like to claim sponsorship as actual involvement, but us F1 fan do not.
No it's just you I'm afraid. No-one else cares.Peacockantony said:
If the rumours are true and Lotus is becoming Caterham and Renault is becoming Lotus. I will still support Caterham, but will forever call the old Renault team 'Genii GP'
I was happy to respond to your earlier points and engage in a debate on these issues but the above marks you out as a mentalist. You've acknowledged that there are plans for Lotus to do a deal with Genii to become more than a sponsor. You'd have thought you'd be one of the few to approve of this news? Clearly Lotus can do no right, whatever they do, therefore your views are invalid, in that you're not actually open to debate at all. Presumably you insist on calling Mercedes engines Ilmors too? Modern F1 must be deeply confusing and upsetting for you!Peacockantony said:
but who when they have the money to buy a Ferrari or a Porsche, is going to buy a car from a small British sports car maker, when they can have Ferrari or a Porsche.
I tried to offer a view as to how and why some people might in the previous thread.The Pits said:
I tried to offer a view as to how and why some people might in the previous thread.
Frankly, I'd give in. There's a group of people who've decided that Lotus has 'gone wrong' with Bahar at the helm, and nothing they or you can do will change that view point.As you say, Lotus are giving motorsport serious attention (rally, Le Mans, one make and GT series, F1 - how many other manufacturers are involved at so many levels of the sport?). They're producing some exciting cars and the signs for the Esprit replacement are very positive. McLaren and Ginetta have both shown that the sports car market is not completely sewn up, so I'm really looking forward to 2012 and Lotus' continued evolution.
Sorry, I meant previous 'post' not 'thread.
I really thought the 'abandoning the traditional customer' line would have been put to bed after Frankfurt, but it appears not!
There's just no pleasing some people. I still don't get the Swizz Beatz thing but maybe that's just all about the raising profile in the US? Let's hope so, I found it pathetic that Land Rover felt the need for Victoria Beckham's input with the new Evoque too.
But other than that I for one am very excited about the new Exige. The Evora S I drove recently was seriously quick and deeply impressive in the corners and on the brakes. The prospect of that drivetrain minus 300kgs (the same weight at the pukka Evora GT racers) in a smaller even more responsive chassis (for £50k) is one heck of a compelling combination. Ignore all this engine snobbery too, it's a great power plant, really smooth, seamless, linear power, muscular torque at any point in the rev range and sounds when extended. Very few of the people who knock it have ever even driven an Evora which says it all really.
I really thought the 'abandoning the traditional customer' line would have been put to bed after Frankfurt, but it appears not!
There's just no pleasing some people. I still don't get the Swizz Beatz thing but maybe that's just all about the raising profile in the US? Let's hope so, I found it pathetic that Land Rover felt the need for Victoria Beckham's input with the new Evoque too.
But other than that I for one am very excited about the new Exige. The Evora S I drove recently was seriously quick and deeply impressive in the corners and on the brakes. The prospect of that drivetrain minus 300kgs (the same weight at the pukka Evora GT racers) in a smaller even more responsive chassis (for £50k) is one heck of a compelling combination. Ignore all this engine snobbery too, it's a great power plant, really smooth, seamless, linear power, muscular torque at any point in the rev range and sounds when extended. Very few of the people who knock it have ever even driven an Evora which says it all really.
Edited by The Pits on Thursday 3rd November 11:40
Peacockantony said:
BTW bobo Dany Bahar hasn't bought Group Lotus, he was just appointed CEO, Proton owns GL, and have done since 1996.
I think what he actually said was that Bahar "bought time". BTW.Peacockantony said:
RENAULT IS RENAULT. TEAM LOTUS IS LOTUS. Simple.
Actually, Renault is Benetton, or Toleman. Back in the day, Toleman (Renault) competed against Renault in their own factory guise. So Renault isn't actually Renault at all. Although it was bought by Renault and so is/was Renault. And the Team Lotus car has no legal rights to call itself a Lotus - that right belongs to Group Lotus.HTH.
The Pits said:
But other than that I for one am very excited about the new Exige. The Evora S I drove recently was seriously quick and deeply impressive in the corners and on the brakes. The prospect of that drivetrain minus 300kgs (the same weight at the pukka Evora GT racers) in a smaller even more responsive chassis (for £50k) is one heck of a compelling combination. Ignore all this engine snobbery too, it's a great power plant, really smooth, seamless, linear power, muscular torque at any point in the rev range and sounds when extended. Very few of the people who knock it have ever even driven an Evora which says it all really.
After reading all of that crap about F1 names I find myself completely agreeing with your above paragraph The Pits.Edited by The Pits on Thursday 3rd November 11:40
Bobo, I see you are still cruising the universe. Have you ever visited the planet Earth.
Are you as tempted as I am to order one Dave? Ideally I'll wait until I've driven one before taking the plunge but I'm not sure I'll hold out that long.
Based on the Elise tub it might not be as forgiving as the Evora on the limit, but the longer wheelbase has got to help. I also think the engine looks further forward and more amidships than it is in the Evora, which had to make room for the back seats, so that's another encouraging sign. I'm also glad they didn't give it power steering. Unassisted steering is a very rare thing these days, funnily enough, so is genuine steering feel...
It will for sure feel a much more 'grown up' Exige, much smoother and more refined simply because the engine is. The manic chainsaw scream of the old car will be out, tidal waves of torque will be in. I guess it can only cost more to run in terms of tyres especially but it will also gain some serious GT ability with a 170mph top speed and higher gearing in top.
Based on the Elise tub it might not be as forgiving as the Evora on the limit, but the longer wheelbase has got to help. I also think the engine looks further forward and more amidships than it is in the Evora, which had to make room for the back seats, so that's another encouraging sign. I'm also glad they didn't give it power steering. Unassisted steering is a very rare thing these days, funnily enough, so is genuine steering feel...
It will for sure feel a much more 'grown up' Exige, much smoother and more refined simply because the engine is. The manic chainsaw scream of the old car will be out, tidal waves of torque will be in. I guess it can only cost more to run in terms of tyres especially but it will also gain some serious GT ability with a 170mph top speed and higher gearing in top.
Edited by The Pits on Friday 4th November 15:58
The Pits said:
Are you as tempted as I am to order one Dave? Ideally I'll wait until I've driven one before taking the plunge but I'm not sure I'll hold out that long.
Based on the Elise tub it might not be as forgiving as the Evora on the limit, but the longer wheelbase has got to help. I also think the engine looks further forward and more amidships than it is in the Evora, which had to make room for the back seats, so that's another encouraging sign. I'm also glad they didn't give it power steering. Unassisted steering is a very rare thing these days, funnily enough, so is genuine steering feel...
It will for sure feel a much more 'grown up' Exige, much smoother and more refined simply because the engine is. The manic chainsaw scream of the old car will be out, tidal waves of torque will be in. I guess it can only cost more to run in terms of tyres especially but it will also gain some serious GT ability with a 170mph top speed and lower gearing in top.
All the signs are definately tempting. I am going to wait until I have seen it and driven it before I make my final descision. If it looks great in the metal (or GRP) I will find it hard to resist. Roll on January.Based on the Elise tub it might not be as forgiving as the Evora on the limit, but the longer wheelbase has got to help. I also think the engine looks further forward and more amidships than it is in the Evora, which had to make room for the back seats, so that's another encouraging sign. I'm also glad they didn't give it power steering. Unassisted steering is a very rare thing these days, funnily enough, so is genuine steering feel...
It will for sure feel a much more 'grown up' Exige, much smoother and more refined simply because the engine is. The manic chainsaw scream of the old car will be out, tidal waves of torque will be in. I guess it can only cost more to run in terms of tyres especially but it will also gain some serious GT ability with a 170mph top speed and lower gearing in top.
AllNines said:
Actually, Renault is Benetton, or Toleman. Back in the day, Toleman (Renault) competed against Renault in their own factory guise. So Renault isn't actually Renault at all. Although it was bought by Renault and so is/was Renault. And the Team Lotus car has no legal rights to call itself a Lotus - that right belongs to Group Lotus.
HTH.
And you obviously didn't read the manuscript of the legal proceedings. That clearly stated that they both are able to call their cars 'Lotus' in F1, but Team Lotus (Team Lotus Ventures Ltd) have no obligation to give up the chassis name, as they are only entity to have raced in F1 as Lotus. And Group Lotus still aren't racing with a Lotus chassis in F1, Genii Capital, the owner of the team are. So Group Lotus still have never raced in F1!HTH.
Tuna said:
Frankly, I'd give in. There's a group of people who've decided that Lotus has 'gone wrong' with Bahar at the helm, and nothing they or you can do will change that view point.
As you say, Lotus are giving motorsport serious attention (rally, Le Mans, one make and GT series, F1 - how many other manufacturers are involved at so many levels of the sport?). They're producing some exciting cars and the signs for the Esprit replacement are very positive. McLaren and Ginetta have both shown that the sports car market is not completely sewn up, so I'm really looking forward to 2012 and Lotus' continued evolution.
No other companies are daft enough to spend so much money over a wide array of things, whilst making so little money, and having to rely on loans to pay for it all.As you say, Lotus are giving motorsport serious attention (rally, Le Mans, one make and GT series, F1 - how many other manufacturers are involved at so many levels of the sport?). They're producing some exciting cars and the signs for the Esprit replacement are very positive. McLaren and Ginetta have both shown that the sports car market is not completely sewn up, so I'm really looking forward to 2012 and Lotus' continued evolution.
If BMW, Toyota and Renault can't afford to be in F1 (in which they all were, not just a sponsor), how is a small British firm going to be able to. Loans have to be paid back, and it is not possible to pay loans back when they aren't enough customer's buying cars to take the company out of debt, that is without the sponsorship money given to other company's teams.
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