Is Bahar's reign at Lotus coming to an end ?
Discussion
Not sure that would be very good news at all - expect yet another couple of years of turmoil as projects are randomly shelved, put back on the drawing board or dreamt up. For all that is made of the F1 Lotus v's Lotus fight, Tony Fernandez has been quite aggressive in trying to 'be Lotus' and I don't think he deserves any moral high ground in what comes across as a playground fight.
For all that Bahar has crashed around the place like a bull in a china shop, he's seen in massive improvements in the quality of the product, he's listened to feedback, introduced interesting programmes such as in-house engine development for the Esprit, and the future line up shows quite a bit of promise. Lotus needed to change, and change has put a lot of noses out of joint - but the product hasn't changed as much as some of the detractors would have you believe. We're still looking at a high end Esprit (in Mclaren/Ferrari territory), a good mid range GT and an Elise replacement at a fairly sensible price.
The big question is - has he learned enough from his first year or so at Lotus, and can he deliver without some of the big names that ushered in the Elise (Roger Becker and Tony Shute spring to mind)
This could be the chance for Proton to show their faith in Lotus' long term programme - they need to have a backer that can see beyond short term knee jerk responses, and Proton appear to have been doing that. Unfortunately we're in the hands of politicians, so anything could happen.
For all that Bahar has crashed around the place like a bull in a china shop, he's seen in massive improvements in the quality of the product, he's listened to feedback, introduced interesting programmes such as in-house engine development for the Esprit, and the future line up shows quite a bit of promise. Lotus needed to change, and change has put a lot of noses out of joint - but the product hasn't changed as much as some of the detractors would have you believe. We're still looking at a high end Esprit (in Mclaren/Ferrari territory), a good mid range GT and an Elise replacement at a fairly sensible price.
The big question is - has he learned enough from his first year or so at Lotus, and can he deliver without some of the big names that ushered in the Elise (Roger Becker and Tony Shute spring to mind)
This could be the chance for Proton to show their faith in Lotus' long term programme - they need to have a backer that can see beyond short term knee jerk responses, and Proton appear to have been doing that. Unfortunately we're in the hands of politicians, so anything could happen.
He's delivered what he said he would, listened to market feedback and the first results are very promising. Check out the MY12 Evora review in EVO this month:
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/2738...
Forget the political intrigue, DB should be allowed to get on with it - you have to believe that the management team behind him know what they are doing. Take for example the new V8 - started in January and fired up, bang on schedule, mid August as they said they would. They've spent £3m on upgrading the test track, started the new Esprit production facility and made big improvements in the trim shop. The fluffy marketing stuff and odd sponsorship gets the headlines, but back at the factory they are making good progress.
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/2738...
Forget the political intrigue, DB should be allowed to get on with it - you have to believe that the management team behind him know what they are doing. Take for example the new V8 - started in January and fired up, bang on schedule, mid August as they said they would. They've spent £3m on upgrading the test track, started the new Esprit production facility and made big improvements in the trim shop. The fluffy marketing stuff and odd sponsorship gets the headlines, but back at the factory they are making good progress.
end of the day, where is the money going to come from to keep up the Bahar dream?
the rate they have been burning cash is stupendous, and couple that with a total collapse in car sales, realistically, they are probably screwed.
Yes I am sure Russian money can buy them, but why do I get the feeling it's another TVR on a much bigger scale?
the rate they have been burning cash is stupendous, and couple that with a total collapse in car sales, realistically, they are probably screwed.
Yes I am sure Russian money can buy them, but why do I get the feeling it's another TVR on a much bigger scale?
Scuffers said:
end of the day, where is the money going to come from to keep up the Bahar dream?
Well, the Evora GTE is looking pretty profitable from here, the Exige V6 is getting some very positive attention and the Elise S should keep a few sales ticking over. Despite all the noise, Bahar is still on more or less the path they planned when the Evora was first considered, with the Esprit coming out shortly. At this stage in any big turnaround project, the game is all about holding your nerve. He won't be proved right (or wrong) for at least a couple of years yet, so he's going to need to convince the investors to stick with him. Right now, I'd say the successes in Asia and the promise of the Esprit will help him a lot. Most of the rest is noise.
Tuna said:
Scuffers said:
end of the day, where is the money going to come from to keep up the Bahar dream?
Well, the Evora GTE is looking pretty profitable from here, the Exige V6 is getting some very positive attention and the Elise S should keep a few sales ticking over. Despite all the noise, Bahar is still on more or less the path they planned when the Evora was first considered, with the Esprit coming out shortly. At this stage in any big turnaround project, the game is all about holding your nerve. He won't be proved right (or wrong) for at least a couple of years yet, so he's going to need to convince the investors to stick with him. Right now, I'd say the successes in Asia and the promise of the Esprit will help him a lot. Most of the rest is noise.
I have been talking to someone in the know at Lotus and he is totally damming of Bahar (who was sacked from Ferrari)for many reasons to many to list here. I could not believe he is scrapping the use of fibreglass to move to aluminium and rushing projects through without considering the Lotus heritage and expertise in its core specialist areas. He is trying to create a Ferrari mkII & we all know that Ferrari as a financial going concern are a money pit which nearly bankrupt Fiat. Their cars are fast and even more fragile than Lotus with many many expensive problems which are brushed under the carpet because of the badge.
Now Bahar has allegedly stated he is not interested in the Lotus models of the past and to this end at least 5 parts per week are being made obsolete for past Lotus models. That includes the V8 Esprit and Elise with no consideration of how vital these parts are to keep a car in road worthy condition.
I hope the man goes Very! Very! Soon before he kills the marque and its core essence.
Cheers Mike
Now Bahar has allegedly stated he is not interested in the Lotus models of the past and to this end at least 5 parts per week are being made obsolete for past Lotus models. That includes the V8 Esprit and Elise with no consideration of how vital these parts are to keep a car in road worthy condition.
I hope the man goes Very! Very! Soon before he kills the marque and its core essence.
Cheers Mike
G_Reaper2 said:
I have been talking to someone in the know at Lotus and he is totally damming of Bahar (who was sacked from Ferrari)for many reasons to many to list here. I could not believe he is scrapping the use of fibreglass to move to aluminium and rushing projects through without considering the Lotus heritage and expertise in its core specialist areas. He is trying to create a Ferrari mkII & we all know that Ferrari as a financial going concern are a money pit which nearly bankrupt Fiat. Their cars are fast and even more fragile than Lotus with many many expensive problems which are brushed under the carpet because of the badge.
Now Bahar has allegedly stated he is not interested in the Lotus models of the past and to this end at least 5 parts per week are being made obsolete for past Lotus models. That includes the V8 Esprit and Elise with no consideration of how vital these parts are to keep a car in road worthy condition.
I hope the man goes Very! Very! Soon before he kills the marque and its core essence.
Cheers Mike
Going from f/glass to aluminium, I see that as a major positive, especially when one considers f/glass is strongly assoicated with kit cars and I'm sure there's many advantges to using aluminium as per Ferrari, Porsche etc. It's great too, that Lotus or is it just Bahar want to compete with Ferrari, hard to knock that ambition. As for the supposed lack interest of in past Lotus models, possibly it makes commercial sense to cut back on parts supply and concentrate on desiging, building and selling new & better Lotus's and surely that's the only way to secure the Lotus heritage. Now Bahar has allegedly stated he is not interested in the Lotus models of the past and to this end at least 5 parts per week are being made obsolete for past Lotus models. That includes the V8 Esprit and Elise with no consideration of how vital these parts are to keep a car in road worthy condition.
I hope the man goes Very! Very! Soon before he kills the marque and its core essence.
Cheers Mike
We did a project last year with ASO to re-manufacture manifolds for 1980 to 1987 Esprits which they did and even listed at the original price from the 80's. Aftersales are incredibly helpful, that's one of a number of projects we've been involved with and they're always open to discussion on other obsolete parts if there is a demand for them.
If a whole 5 parts a week are going obsolete it's more than likely that the suppliers are going bust, throwing away the tooling or not interested in the quantities Lotus need. That's just business, nothing new there and certainly not Bahar's work.
If a whole 5 parts a week are going obsolete it's more than likely that the suppliers are going bust, throwing away the tooling or not interested in the quantities Lotus need. That's just business, nothing new there and certainly not Bahar's work.
G_Reaper2 said:
...and to this end at least 5 parts per week are being made obsolete for past Lotus models. That includes the V8 Esprit and Elise with no consideration of how vital these parts are to keep a car in road worthy condition.
I've run both an early Elise and an Excel, and given that many parts for these and the rest of the cars Lotus have produced are often from other manufacturer's parts bins, I'm not surprised that there is a constant stream of parts being made obsolete. Is Bahar actively making parts obsolete, or is it just the natural state of things when your wing mirrors came from an obscure Citroen that never sold well in the first place?There is a lot of FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) around Bahar, who is shaking things up at Lotus. If you're the head of fibreglass mouldings and your boss says "we're going to stop doing that", how are you going to react?
I'm certain he's put a lot of people's noses out of joint. Whether he's doing a good job of changing Lotus will only be clear in a few years' time.
Edited by Tuna on Wednesday 23 November 14:24
I can't see Lotus surviving with their existing range of cars, so someone with lots of ambition (and cash) needs to be at the helm. Personally, I liked Bahar's vision of future Lotus cars, but I think that his, possibly fatal, mistake was not putting the Evora at the heart of it for at least the next 5 years. I don't think that Bahar's full range of cars is achievable, but if he gets the Esprit and Elan to market he will have done really well.
Colin Chapman's aim was to push Lotus way upmarket, but that was something he never really achieved. It is easy to look at Lotus's history of affordable cars and call that 'heritage', but if they go bust avoiding making premium priced cars, there will be no future heritage for us to look back on in 20 years' time.
Colin Chapman's aim was to push Lotus way upmarket, but that was something he never really achieved. It is easy to look at Lotus's history of affordable cars and call that 'heritage', but if they go bust avoiding making premium priced cars, there will be no future heritage for us to look back on in 20 years' time.
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