Europe has greener driving grass!!
Discussion
Just been back to UK / Europe for a bit. Having been in Australia for 8 months now and with the excuse that WA's driving opportunities are very few and far between I rented a 2006 Aston Martin DB9 GT spec for two days which was a right chuckle (especially as the recession meant it was half price). I had a nice bit of motorway running and also took it down my favourite Cambridgeshire / Northamptonshire road - very nice, very balanced the V12 is a peach, but I thought it lacked a full sense of occassion. A used one would be about $120K in the UK against $200K here. In Germany I had booked an X5, but it was not available so I was given a new 730d - totally different but what a great car, very planted, excellent technology and perfect for a bit of 240kph autobahn running, but costing over $230K in Australia against $115K in Europe. I also took a BMW K1300S bike out with Quickshift gearbox. Again awesome on a quiet autobahn legally at 250kph.
I got back to Perth yesterday, within 5 minutes I had been cut up badly by a total a*sehole outside the airport. 20 minutes after I left home today I got totally cut up at the end of the Mitchell who just drifted over into the lane I was in. I had a great drive home at the 100kph artificial parallel tailgating crawl, enjoying the wacky races driving style and observing the unregulated charabangs around me.
I don't think I have been anywhere such as WA and in particular Perth where driving good quality cars can be so expensive and yet so hugely ungratifying.
Cheers,
MW.
I got back to Perth yesterday, within 5 minutes I had been cut up badly by a total a*sehole outside the airport. 20 minutes after I left home today I got totally cut up at the end of the Mitchell who just drifted over into the lane I was in. I had a great drive home at the 100kph artificial parallel tailgating crawl, enjoying the wacky races driving style and observing the unregulated charabangs around me.
I don't think I have been anywhere such as WA and in particular Perth where driving good quality cars can be so expensive and yet so hugely ungratifying.
Cheers,
MW.
I think that is a fair observation and sums up motoring Aus style perfectly.
There was an interesting thread a couple of weeks back about having the joy of motoring sucked out of you by the roads and driving standards here....the OP of that thread sold his weekend / trackday MX5 in favour of a Camry with intergalactic KMS on it because the joy of motoring had just completely gone
There was an interesting thread a couple of weeks back about having the joy of motoring sucked out of you by the roads and driving standards here....the OP of that thread sold his weekend / trackday MX5 in favour of a Camry with intergalactic KMS on it because the joy of motoring had just completely gone
I agree - driving in the UK was an eye opener for me. Much better, faster, safer progress by most drivers.
Actually had a UK-esque motorway experience on the F3 driving up to Newcastle the other day. Me, Saab 9-3 Aero, e39 5 series and a VW Passat, all cruising at 130-140 leptons, perfect lane discipline, smart overtakes, no tailgating, just smooth driving.
And it was amazing. Like being back an the M1 at around 11am on a thursday.
Actually had a UK-esque motorway experience on the F3 driving up to Newcastle the other day. Me, Saab 9-3 Aero, e39 5 series and a VW Passat, all cruising at 130-140 leptons, perfect lane discipline, smart overtakes, no tailgating, just smooth driving.
And it was amazing. Like being back an the M1 at around 11am on a thursday.
Full stop doing 100mph (160K) on EU roads whilst on hols in June in UK, etc I've never felt safer. Got back here, and even 100K seems dangerous, because, the Aussie driving education/standards is just pants. It is also amazing to be in rush hour traffic at "RTA Brain-Bleed-Out-Your-Ears" speeds completely comfortable, because most drivers know how to drive.
I'll leave the UK's pathetic BMW drivers out of this discussion for obvious reasons
How the car companies can get away with the double-price (although 1/2 is Lux car Tax!) is insane as shipping a RO/RO is about AU$1.5 - AU$2K.
I'll leave the UK's pathetic BMW drivers out of this discussion for obvious reasons
How the car companies can get away with the double-price (although 1/2 is Lux car Tax!) is insane as shipping a RO/RO is about AU$1.5 - AU$2K.
deviant said:
I think that is a fair observation and sums up motoring Aus style perfectly.
There was an interesting thread a couple of weeks back about having the joy of motoring sucked out of you by the roads and driving standards here....the OP of that thread sold his weekend / trackday MX5 in favour of a Camry with intergalactic KMS on it because the joy of motoring had just completely gone
I've told you, that VIENTA is the best car in the world. You people have just yet to realise it. I've evolved from a car enthusiast into a boring old bThere was an interesting thread a couple of weeks back about having the joy of motoring sucked out of you by the roads and driving standards here....the OP of that thread sold his weekend / trackday MX5 in favour of a Camry with intergalactic KMS on it because the joy of motoring had just completely gone
d. It will happen to you 
Jokes apart, there is a running theme in this forum, my thread wasn't the first in here about how crappy Australia is for drivers. In fact it wasn't even MY first thread about it! There are loads and we all seem to be singing from the same sheet. Long live the RTA.
I find it very strange the way motoring is here.
Australia does have a longe motorsport heritage starting with 'Round the houses' races in country towns in the pre-war years, its had F1 races all over the country, there is of course Bathurst and the many touring car series that have built up in to the modern day V8's. For a long long time there has always been hillclimbs and sprints to and believe it or not but Australia is covered in old race circuits. Australia is also one of the only places you can do proper Targa events....Oh and drag racing, desert racing and dirt oval racing has a rich heritage here.
There is also the proud history of the Aussie mussle car that even non-car people fondly remember pining for as a teenager.....so what the hell went wrong?!?!
For those in Perth: The AHG Driving Centre at the Airport has just been taken over by the RAC so its now the RAC Driving Centre. Unfortunately it looks like the writing is on the wall for MC Motorsport and being able to go for a cheap trackday and time trials.
RAC said MC Motorsport have a lease for the next 12 months but no decision has been made beyond that.
This week RAC changed the rules of running on the track there to state that in-car filming / photography is not allowed because they dont want the footage to reflect badly on the RAC.....WHAT?!?! At the same time the RAC said it is excited by taking on the centre because they want to teach people car control in a safe environment.....EH?!?! The RAC is always going on about people pushing their cars on the road and crashing and now they have taken on a place where this can happen safely and they dont want to promote it.....GUH?!?! How does someone driving quickly on track reflect badly on the RAC?!?! They are really going to let that fun little track go to waste?!?
I just dont get their stance on it. The RAC is as old as the motorcar and in the UK has spent most of that time sponsoring, promoting and governing motorsport as well as safe driving and generally sticking up for motorists so why is the Aus branch so anti-car? They just seem to fold under the government and support their rediculous laws and enforcement of.
Australia does have a longe motorsport heritage starting with 'Round the houses' races in country towns in the pre-war years, its had F1 races all over the country, there is of course Bathurst and the many touring car series that have built up in to the modern day V8's. For a long long time there has always been hillclimbs and sprints to and believe it or not but Australia is covered in old race circuits. Australia is also one of the only places you can do proper Targa events....Oh and drag racing, desert racing and dirt oval racing has a rich heritage here.
There is also the proud history of the Aussie mussle car that even non-car people fondly remember pining for as a teenager.....so what the hell went wrong?!?!
For those in Perth: The AHG Driving Centre at the Airport has just been taken over by the RAC so its now the RAC Driving Centre. Unfortunately it looks like the writing is on the wall for MC Motorsport and being able to go for a cheap trackday and time trials.
RAC said MC Motorsport have a lease for the next 12 months but no decision has been made beyond that.
This week RAC changed the rules of running on the track there to state that in-car filming / photography is not allowed because they dont want the footage to reflect badly on the RAC.....WHAT?!?! At the same time the RAC said it is excited by taking on the centre because they want to teach people car control in a safe environment.....EH?!?! The RAC is always going on about people pushing their cars on the road and crashing and now they have taken on a place where this can happen safely and they dont want to promote it.....GUH?!?! How does someone driving quickly on track reflect badly on the RAC?!?! They are really going to let that fun little track go to waste?!?
I just dont get their stance on it. The RAC is as old as the motorcar and in the UK has spent most of that time sponsoring, promoting and governing motorsport as well as safe driving and generally sticking up for motorists so why is the Aus branch so anti-car? They just seem to fold under the government and support their rediculous laws and enforcement of.
Hahaha... Guilty your honour. Mind you, I had 160kph out of it the other day so don't tar me with the 5 below brush.
Interestingly, I met a girl last week and we've been dating. I won't go into how awesome and sexy and cool she is, but I will say that it transpires she too is a massive car enthusiast. The conversation was flowing, the excitement was building, all was good:
'Wow, what do you drive?' 'Camry. You?' 'Corolla station wagon'
Sad.
Interestingly, I met a girl last week and we've been dating. I won't go into how awesome and sexy and cool she is, but I will say that it transpires she too is a massive car enthusiast. The conversation was flowing, the excitement was building, all was good:
'Wow, what do you drive?' 'Camry. You?' 'Corolla station wagon'
Sad.
Sorry but that is pretty amusing.Its often interesting heading to the show and shine car shows here because there really is some very interesting metal out there...just nobody bothers getting them out to play with anymore. All of their owners drive a bunky and seem to have given up on ever getting their toys out to play with.
Funny this thread coming up.
I get back to the UK quite a lot so I've finished up buying a weekend toy over there as driving it 10-15 weekends a year is going to be more satisfying than driving it 35-40 weekends over here.
My M3 is strangled living in Sydney, even getting onto track days is so much harder than in the UK where there's one pretty much every day of the year you can get to. I was going to replace it with a 997 but at this stage I'm probably just as likely to go back to a standard 3-series with auto box.
I get back to the UK quite a lot so I've finished up buying a weekend toy over there as driving it 10-15 weekends a year is going to be more satisfying than driving it 35-40 weekends over here.
My M3 is strangled living in Sydney, even getting onto track days is so much harder than in the UK where there's one pretty much every day of the year you can get to. I was going to replace it with a 997 but at this stage I'm probably just as likely to go back to a standard 3-series with auto box.
SydneyPom said:
Funny this thread coming up.
I get back to the UK quite a lot so I've finished up buying a weekend toy over there as driving it 10-15 weekends a year is going to be more satisfying than driving it 35-40 weekends over here.
My M3 is strangled living in Sydney, even getting onto track days is so much harder than in the UK where there's one pretty much every day of the year you can get to. I was going to replace it with a 997 but at this stage I'm probably just as likely to go back to a standard 3-series with auto box.
I dont know what its like in the Eastern states but here in WA trackdays are not as much fun as in the UK because you are not allowed to take passengers out with you unless you have a CAMS instructors license.I get back to the UK quite a lot so I've finished up buying a weekend toy over there as driving it 10-15 weekends a year is going to be more satisfying than driving it 35-40 weekends over here.
My M3 is strangled living in Sydney, even getting onto track days is so much harder than in the UK where there's one pretty much every day of the year you can get to. I was going to replace it with a 997 but at this stage I'm probably just as likely to go back to a standard 3-series with auto box.
I would love to take the missus out...Would be a bit of a giggle taking her mum out to, she is a bloody awfull passenger
You know the sort, shrieks at you to slow down before you even get your seatbelt on. She can usually be found doing 15 under on the freeway 3 feet from the car in front.CoopsA said:
Has anyone mentioned cost of fuel? currently unleaded is just over a pound a litre in the UK with diesel 1.06 in parts of Europe - e.g. Switzerland it's even more - surely this comes into the discussion. However I've not driven in Australia yet so may well change my view...
I've done 8,000km in a year.. this is much less of a factor than the price differential on cars unless you are doing big mileage. I reckon mine cost about A$60k more than UK equivalent (I wouldn't have loaded it with the same near 100% spec as is standard over here). Interest on A$60k in my mortgage for a year? A$3k.I average about 12l per 100km. So at $0.50 cents a litre cheaper I'd need to be doing 45-50,000km just to break even.
Fuel is a consideration but once you start earning in $ it's all relative- when it hits $1.30 ltr it feels expensive just like in uk. I'd happily, and I mean joyously pay $2 a litre if I could buy an e46 m3 for $22k with no purchase tax, drive everywhere at 120-140kmh without fear of police gang rape and not have to deal with the absolute cocktards that inhabit the roads here.
Shirley the hallucinogens must be taking effect. I thought for a moment the gubmnt'd been overthrown, now know Bobby Ewing is dead.
Still PG, everyone's gotta have a dream......
Still PG, everyone's gotta have a dream......
Pommygranite said:
.....snip....., drive everywhere at 120-140kmh without fear of police gang rape and not have to deal with the absolute cocktards that inhabit the roads here.
Edited by Steve-B on Saturday 25th July 01:30
Pommygranite said:
Fuel is a consideration but once you start earning in $ it's all relative- when it hits $1.30 ltr it feels expensive just like in uk. I'd happily, and I mean joyously pay $2 a litre if I could buy an e46 m3 for $22k with no purchase tax, drive everywhere at 120-140kmh without fear of police gang rape and not have to deal with the absolute cocktards that inhabit the roads here.
Hear Hear!!! I'd pay $5!! It would be worth it.But seriously, if you love driving it is a shock when you come here. When you know from experience that driving at 120-130kph in a modern car on a freeway is essentially safe. When you see the profoundly simplistic focus by the government and police upon speed, whilst ignoring most other road safety factors. When you can't buy a high quality foreign car you know is miles better than the locally produced stuff without paying two or three times as much as the European market due to protectionist trade policies. And when you see that majority of people don't know any different and do not question it all, it really makes you wonder why you bother with fast cars in Australia at all. I am just wondering where the "group think" that led to this started and why there doesn't seem to be one individual or national body arguing for the rights of drivers.
One word: Lemmings
Whilst I really admire almost all that I've met in our 3+ years here in Oz, the drivers by and far (PH'ers excepted of course) are pathetic Lemmings. One has to wonder if it was ever different, and even though MadMax was just a movie, there has to be a place, fsck that, there IS a place you can safely do higher speeds. Unfortunately one Lemming will then grass you and it'll once again be game over.
Everytime we meet up with folks who've immigrated from Europe -> Oz this exact same topic comes up of the Lemmings on the road. Frankly I'd have to say the cost and amount of effort to have brought a high Bhp Caterham over to Sydney may well have not been worth it........because of all the Lemmings on the roads.
Whilst I really admire almost all that I've met in our 3+ years here in Oz, the drivers by and far (PH'ers excepted of course) are pathetic Lemmings. One has to wonder if it was ever different, and even though MadMax was just a movie, there has to be a place, fsck that, there IS a place you can safely do higher speeds. Unfortunately one Lemming will then grass you and it'll once again be game over.
Everytime we meet up with folks who've immigrated from Europe -> Oz this exact same topic comes up of the Lemmings on the road. Frankly I'd have to say the cost and amount of effort to have brought a high Bhp Caterham over to Sydney may well have not been worth it........because of all the Lemmings on the roads.
astonmartinv8 said:
. I am just wondering where the "group think" that led to this started and why there doesn't seem to be one individual or national body arguing for the rights of drivers.
Edited by Steve-B on Sunday 26th July 02:39
Edited by Steve-B on Sunday 26th July 02:40
So how bad are the police then? currently at home in Bucks/Berks the usual cruising speed for most cars on the M40 is approx 90mph, would this raise some eyebrows? There are a couple places where the speed vans are occasionally parked, however if you know where these are and keep a look out in your mirrors for fast moving vectras it's happy days
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