A what car discussion....Aussie muscle or Euro hot hatch
Discussion
So what would you go for?
Assuming a budget of $30-$35,000 you can pick up HSV's, FPV's, XR6 turbos and SS Commodores.
Looking at the used market you can get a current shape (VE) Commodore SS in manual with its 6 litre V8 for $35K and under generally with less than 30,000KMS on the clock.
Older HSV's and BA/BF FPV's can be had for the same money and BA/BF XR6 turbo can be had for under $25K.
In a similar price bracket you can get a turbocharged euro hot hatch.
Personally I love the euro hot hatches. The refinement and build quality is spectacular and really shatters peoples preconceptions that hatchbacks are cramped, noisy and under powered. They handle and accelerate with the best of them....although not a euro car the Mazda 3 MPS has in gear acceleration figures to match an Audi RS4!!
However you cant help but have your attention caught by a RWD sedan with a mahoooosive engine especially considering that you could never hope to pick up a GOOD M3 or M5 for the same money.
I have always read that build quality and refinement is lacking in the aussie cars and nosing around a BF XR6 Turbo I do tend to agree...but there aint many turbo charged straight six powered sedans with over 300BHP and a quite silly 500NM of torque in the same price bracket!
Assuming a budget of $30-$35,000 you can pick up HSV's, FPV's, XR6 turbos and SS Commodores.
Looking at the used market you can get a current shape (VE) Commodore SS in manual with its 6 litre V8 for $35K and under generally with less than 30,000KMS on the clock.
Older HSV's and BA/BF FPV's can be had for the same money and BA/BF XR6 turbo can be had for under $25K.
In a similar price bracket you can get a turbocharged euro hot hatch.
Personally I love the euro hot hatches. The refinement and build quality is spectacular and really shatters peoples preconceptions that hatchbacks are cramped, noisy and under powered. They handle and accelerate with the best of them....although not a euro car the Mazda 3 MPS has in gear acceleration figures to match an Audi RS4!!
However you cant help but have your attention caught by a RWD sedan with a mahoooosive engine especially considering that you could never hope to pick up a GOOD M3 or M5 for the same money.
I have always read that build quality and refinement is lacking in the aussie cars and nosing around a BF XR6 Turbo I do tend to agree...but there aint many turbo charged straight six powered sedans with over 300BHP and a quite silly 500NM of torque in the same price bracket!
Had a brief look at a Monaro but wasn't really for me. Felt a bit to big and clunky, and had a pretty absymal manual shift.
Wasn't tempted by a Commodore for the same reasons, XR8 didn't appeal and insurance was really, really expensive on an XR6 turbo
Basically I didn't need a car that big and I find mine much easier to use in the inner city.
Wasn't tempted by a Commodore for the same reasons, XR8 didn't appeal and insurance was really, really expensive on an XR6 turbo
Basically I didn't need a car that big and I find mine much easier to use in the inner city.
I think those are the things that put me off...they are HUGE cars and I'm not that sure I could be bothered to get to grips with moving one around in traffic and parking the thing.
But I keep being tempted by the big engine RWD thing. I just noticed today that you can get a VE SS for $40K drive away...still a lot of money but thats a lot of car and performance.
Are they really as good as the local magazines make out though? They always claim them to be performance bargains and to be 'proper' drivers cars.
But I keep being tempted by the big engine RWD thing. I just noticed today that you can get a VE SS for $40K drive away...still a lot of money but thats a lot of car and performance.
Are they really as good as the local magazines make out though? They always claim them to be performance bargains and to be 'proper' drivers cars.
Depreciation is such a killer on them though. Yeah, it's a 40k new car. But it will be worth less than half that in 3 years time.
I'm not really a fan of them to be honest. I've driven a few and just found them a bit to big and unwieldy for me - but I grew up outside the traditional ford/holden family. Remember, this is a country where a Toyota Corolla is classified as a small car and magazine reviews consider something like a Toyota Camry as lacking in rear leg room
They're fast but unrefined. If I had a check for 40k burning a hole in my pocket it would not be going local. But these are all my own opinions, others will probably disagree.
I'm not really a fan of them to be honest. I've driven a few and just found them a bit to big and unwieldy for me - but I grew up outside the traditional ford/holden family. Remember, this is a country where a Toyota Corolla is classified as a small car and magazine reviews consider something like a Toyota Camry as lacking in rear leg room
They're fast but unrefined. If I had a check for 40k burning a hole in my pocket it would not be going local. But these are all my own opinions, others will probably disagree.
Yep depreciation is a killer. Before this drive away deal thingo they are nearer $50K and as I mentioned they are popping up at sub $35K prices after 18 months. This deal will probably kill the used market for them.
I dunno...I dont seem to be able to summon any sort of love or excitement for them apart from the big engine RWD part but thats only really because there is no way I could afford any sort of Audi or BMW with similar power outputs.
Now if the BMW 130 was cheaper I could have the best of both worlds!
The hot hatches seem to hold their value quite nicely and are certainly not a common sight on the roads.
I dunno...I dont seem to be able to summon any sort of love or excitement for them apart from the big engine RWD part but thats only really because there is no way I could afford any sort of Audi or BMW with similar power outputs.
Now if the BMW 130 was cheaper I could have the best of both worlds!
The hot hatches seem to hold their value quite nicely and are certainly not a common sight on the roads.
That's what I like about mine. According to sales figures there are only a few hundred driving around on Australian roads so the chances of seeing another one is very, very remote. I actually see more Mk 4 Golf R32s than other versions of my car which is a bit odd.
This, combined with a nice APR chip means a lot of people are surprised about how quickly it pulls away. They just see a 3 door hatch without thinking much about it.
I don't see massive amounts of power as the be all and end all. I also need a car which is presentable for work, easy to park, comfortable and that I feel good in.
This, combined with a nice APR chip means a lot of people are surprised about how quickly it pulls away. They just see a 3 door hatch without thinking much about it.
I don't see massive amounts of power as the be all and end all. I also need a car which is presentable for work, easy to park, comfortable and that I feel good in.
My heart says VE 6 ltr for something different and not something you can get in the uk. However given that my Step Brother has a Crewman SS Thunder 6.0 V8 and he says the fuel consumption is frightening when you get your boot down i'd go Euro Hot Hatch.
My personal face is a Mk5 Gti DSG (5dr in Red thanks) Thats for $35k.
$45k and i'd be trying to get a 130i.
The new 135i Coupe's look top. I'd love one of those, but bit much at c.$70k.
My personal face is a Mk5 Gti DSG (5dr in Red thanks) Thats for $35k.
$45k and i'd be trying to get a 130i.
The new 135i Coupe's look top. I'd love one of those, but bit much at c.$70k.
We went the big Aussie lump route when we first arrived, went for a VY SS Commodore.
Yes it's fun driving a 5.7v8 lump of plastic around with loads of grunt and a good noise, but the novelty soon wears off when the reliability woes kick in and the build quality on ours was pretty terrible. Having said that the depreciation wasn't bad - owned it for just under a year, bought it for $23k and traded it in for $21k with an additional 15,000km on the clock.
Having said that i don't find myself particularly drawn to any of the euro hot hatches really either, always had a preference for larger cars. If i had to have one it'd be the Focus with the 5cyl turbo lump.
With a $35k budget and only the options of euro hatch/domestic lump available then chances are I'd be hunting down slightly older HSVs and being sucked into that world of rumbly v8 pain once again..
Yes it's fun driving a 5.7v8 lump of plastic around with loads of grunt and a good noise, but the novelty soon wears off when the reliability woes kick in and the build quality on ours was pretty terrible. Having said that the depreciation wasn't bad - owned it for just under a year, bought it for $23k and traded it in for $21k with an additional 15,000km on the clock.
Having said that i don't find myself particularly drawn to any of the euro hot hatches really either, always had a preference for larger cars. If i had to have one it'd be the Focus with the 5cyl turbo lump.
With a $35k budget and only the options of euro hatch/domestic lump available then chances are I'd be hunting down slightly older HSVs and being sucked into that world of rumbly v8 pain once again..
Edited by ariddell on Sunday 30th November 23:18
See its not THAT bad looking and its got a very silly engine under the bonnet 
Purple wouldnt be my first choice....I like that bright green they do with the optional stripes
I would be interested in hearing about your ownership experience and what they are like to drive and 'make progress' in.
Purple wouldnt be my first choice....I like that bright green they do with the optional stripes
I would be interested in hearing about your ownership experience and what they are like to drive and 'make progress' in.
two more like that and you can get ya coat. 
Jader1973 said:
Colonial said:
Do you work for Cadbury?
Ha ha! No...but it was a company car, hence the silly colour - resale wasn't my problem. The SV6 Sportwagon will hopefully be bright green for the same reason (it had better be because they are making me wait for it).As for living with it - never gave me any problems. Having said that, I have heard stories of the centre console electrics going dead intermittantly on some VEs. Don't know if it is possible to check for it or not, a dealer might know.
The interior is pretty good, but not up to Euro standards - I hate to say it, but the Commodore is basically a big Korean car screwed together in Australia. If you look (or tap) closely you can see where they've "taken cost out". Although, perhaps I expect big cars to be really well built because in Europe they're all Mercs or BMWs? It propably isn't any worse than the Astra.
Fuel consumption was pretty reasonable considering my commute was stop start out through the north side of Melbourne and then down citylink to Port Melbourne - it did about 14 litres/100km IIRC. On a run it would get 10, which ain't bad.
Worst bit is the key...it doesn't fold (even the Astra's folds) so you end up with a huge bit of plastic with a metal spike stabbing you in the leg whenever you stand up. Mind you, think Caprice and Statesman have folding keys - may be possible to change somehow.
Went like stink. The ESP seemed to be set up to allow a bit of sliding - had it understeering badly on a damp roundabout one morning, and it was possible to get the back to slide about before the ESP kicked in (not badly, but it was noticable).
Ride was a bit jiggly over rough surfaces, not too bad but it could be a pain depending on the quality of roads you drive on every day. Going to see the sister in-law in Echuca involved some pretty crappy main roads, and it did get a bit of a pain on them on occasion.
Definately got a lot more respect from other road users than the poxy Astra I have just now. People used to stare at it all the time...maybe it was because it was bright purple??
The only real downside is that it looks identical to the SV6 (other than the badges and the 4 exhausts). This meant there was always the temptation to use brute force away from traffic lights to make sure people knew it was an SS
Anyway, I miss it and I want another one.
Edited by Jader1973 on Tuesday 2nd December 13:35
Which one would make you look less like a bogan/bevan? Serious question - what image do euro hot hatches have in Aus?
To my mind, the euro hatch wins every time. I've driven a VXR8 and Astra VXR round Thruxton (the UK's fastest circuit). The Astra was faster almost everywhere except the long last straight. In comparison the monaro (or whatever it's called down under) is a big soft boat of a thing to pilot. Nothing like the sharp poise of a german RWD saloon. The astra loves to be driven hard and can be a lot of fun with oversteer on demand if you're careful not to trigger the ESP by being too violent.
ker, as happened with my old bmw, or being viewed as a bogan. Hmmm image is not really something I thought about to be honest.
I guess in a performance Ford or Holden your always going to get a certain element of people that want to yell abuse or race you or assume your a hoon.
I guess I want something with decent power and fun handling or able to cope with the odd track thrash but things like interior feel and build quality and comfort are important to me as well for the daily grind...its nice to be sealed off with your music on and the A/C set just right and feeling relaxed in a nice supportinve seat.
I guess in a performance Ford or Holden your always going to get a certain element of people that want to yell abuse or race you or assume your a hoon.
I guess I want something with decent power and fun handling or able to cope with the odd track thrash but things like interior feel and build quality and comfort are important to me as well for the daily grind...its nice to be sealed off with your music on and the A/C set just right and feeling relaxed in a nice supportinve seat.
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