OK, I see what you WA guys mean.....
Discussion
Never again shall I complain about the roads and drivers of Victoria, WA petrolheads i take my hat off to you, you must have the patience of saints and are truly a repressed and downtrodden lot when it comes to motoring.
Never before have I seen such complete and utter lack of awareness of other vehicles around, and such resolute inability to anticipate the road ahead than demonstrated by drivers on the roads around Perth this weekend. And that's saying something compared to the complete blithering idiots on the roads of Melbourne.
Must have seen more police speed traps in one weekend in Perth than I've seen all month over here in the east. And that's just the ones i saw, let alone any that were remotely hidden.
Oh and what the hell is going on with your traffic lights?!?!?!?! In ground trigger or sequenced timing anyone? No? Ok then I'll just end up sitting at every single set that changes to red as i approach and then sits there with no other traffic around for miles for 3 mins at a time then will I? Nice.
I think if I lived over West chances are I'd give up the will to drive too, and probably end up buying a Corolla like everyone else. May it be a frosty day in Hades that that ever happens.....
Never before have I seen such complete and utter lack of awareness of other vehicles around, and such resolute inability to anticipate the road ahead than demonstrated by drivers on the roads around Perth this weekend. And that's saying something compared to the complete blithering idiots on the roads of Melbourne.
Must have seen more police speed traps in one weekend in Perth than I've seen all month over here in the east. And that's just the ones i saw, let alone any that were remotely hidden.
Oh and what the hell is going on with your traffic lights?!?!?!?! In ground trigger or sequenced timing anyone? No? Ok then I'll just end up sitting at every single set that changes to red as i approach and then sits there with no other traffic around for miles for 3 mins at a time then will I? Nice.
I think if I lived over West chances are I'd give up the will to drive too, and probably end up buying a Corolla like everyone else. May it be a frosty day in Hades that that ever happens.....
Summed it up in one!!
Road design comes in for particular criticism from me. There is no element of it that is conducive to traffic flow or safe driving.
I was in Melbourne a couple of weeks back and actually for the first time in 4 years enjoyed road driving even though we had a POS Toyota RAV4 rental. The country VIC drivers come in for praise with them all being courteous and patient and aware of those that might want to get past and make more progress.
deviant said:
Fiddlemesticks said:
If you dont like it - leave. Oh yeah, you already did.....
Feck off we're full!!!
Seriouly, i agree with original comments. I never thought that i'd live somewhere where a fast car might feel like a waste.
If i wont Lotto then a Quattroporte would be on the drive and thats it. a Fezza or Lambo would be wasted.
However am open to being convinced otherwise.
Good to hear an outsider's viewpoint, validates what we say and confirms that it isn't just our jaded view of things.
Perth drivers are THE worst I have ever experienced anywhere. I believe it's a combination of the so called "laid back, she'll be right" attitude (which I translate as "I don't give a s
t, what? you expect me to do it properly?") coupled with lack of driver training, the dumbing down effect of the pathetic revenue raising "speed kills" bullst, and the aggressive nature of your typical Aussie "tough guy" (moron). As already stated, no forward thinking, no anticipation of what will happen next, zero lane discipline, aggresive prevention of anyone wanting to overtake etc etc...
As an example, I regularly drive up and down the hill to Lesmurdie. Coming down in the Monaro I put it in 4th and it stays at 80kph without touching the brakes. In my ex wife's auto XR6 I knock into S/A mode and drop it to 3rd, same effect. 95% of cars I see are riding the brakes all the way down, hope they never actually need to stop!! Last week I followed a marked patrol car down the hill, nothing in sight but him and me 100M behind. Of course he was in the RH lane for the 5 Km I saw, and brake lights on all the way down...
great example cretin!
Don't get me started on road design! There are only 2 options: Either the road systems are designed by public transport riding pubic serpents who don't drive and have never been overseas to see how things should be done... or, they know how to make it work but are deliberately and systematically sabotaging the system to create traffic problems that shouldn't exist, for political reasons... Now let's think, most pubic serpents vote which way?
Might as well keep ranting now you've started me
Intersections of major roads. In England they would create a proper cloverleaf or similar to allow free access to and from each highway. Here, oh no, we'll use traffic lights! hmm, short of space are we? CRETINS! Most of the intersections I'm talking about there is acres of clear space around the crossing, clearly left to do it properly "one day". Even where there is a flyover eg Tonkin Hwy/ Roe Hwy the flyover has 2 sets of lights 100M apart. That's OK, after 10 years when they redo it properly there will have been a few people killed and injured there, millions of man hours wasted in queues, countless wasted litres of fuel and unneccesary pollution, but that's OK, doesn't come out of OUR budget mate...
aaaargh!!!
Perth drivers are THE worst I have ever experienced anywhere. I believe it's a combination of the so called "laid back, she'll be right" attitude (which I translate as "I don't give a s
t, what? you expect me to do it properly?") coupled with lack of driver training, the dumbing down effect of the pathetic revenue raising "speed kills" bullst, and the aggressive nature of your typical Aussie "tough guy" (moron). As already stated, no forward thinking, no anticipation of what will happen next, zero lane discipline, aggresive prevention of anyone wanting to overtake etc etc...As an example, I regularly drive up and down the hill to Lesmurdie. Coming down in the Monaro I put it in 4th and it stays at 80kph without touching the brakes. In my ex wife's auto XR6 I knock into S/A mode and drop it to 3rd, same effect. 95% of cars I see are riding the brakes all the way down, hope they never actually need to stop!! Last week I followed a marked patrol car down the hill, nothing in sight but him and me 100M behind. Of course he was in the RH lane for the 5 Km I saw, and brake lights on all the way down...
great example cretin!Don't get me started on road design! There are only 2 options: Either the road systems are designed by public transport riding pubic serpents who don't drive and have never been overseas to see how things should be done... or, they know how to make it work but are deliberately and systematically sabotaging the system to create traffic problems that shouldn't exist, for political reasons... Now let's think, most pubic serpents vote which way?
Might as well keep ranting now you've started me
Intersections of major roads. In England they would create a proper cloverleaf or similar to allow free access to and from each highway. Here, oh no, we'll use traffic lights! hmm, short of space are we? CRETINS! Most of the intersections I'm talking about there is acres of clear space around the crossing, clearly left to do it properly "one day". Even where there is a flyover eg Tonkin Hwy/ Roe Hwy the flyover has 2 sets of lights 100M apart. That's OK, after 10 years when they redo it properly there will have been a few people killed and injured there, millions of man hours wasted in queues, countless wasted litres of fuel and unneccesary pollution, but that's OK, doesn't come out of OUR budget mate...
aaaargh!!!
Thinking further about traffic lights, how about when you come to a set (eg Roe Hwy/ Berkshire Rd in Forrestfield, heading North, turning East) where there is a RH turn arrow. Midnight, almost nothing on the road, arrow goes red before I get there. I then sit there for several minutes watching an empty road coming towards me, before the lights go red, Berkshire Rd gets a green although nothing there, then I get the green arrow... MORONS!!! Why not make the arrow go red to stop the flow... and then go out?? That way I can go when safe to, and YOU DON'T NEED A GREEN ARROW NEXT CYCLE!
AAARRGGHH
That way I can go when safe to, and YOU DON'T NEED A GREEN ARROW NEXT CYCLE! AAARRGGHH
The lights are definately what annoyed us the most.
Ok, lights in Melbourne still suck too as they haven't quite fully got the hang of sequencing them like they do in the UK to maximise the traffic flow on a long stretch of road so you don't get stuck at every friggin set. They at least they have detector loops in the road however and will trigger when traffic is present rather than sticking to a completely set timed sequence regardless of what's around like they seem to in Perth.
Ok, lights in Melbourne still suck too as they haven't quite fully got the hang of sequencing them like they do in the UK to maximise the traffic flow on a long stretch of road so you don't get stuck at every friggin set. They at least they have detector loops in the road however and will trigger when traffic is present rather than sticking to a completely set timed sequence regardless of what's around like they seem to in Perth.
Nice one Tim!!
I have to wonder WTF it is with tailgating here? Its perfectly 'normal' for people to literally sit 3-4 feet from each other in a line of 20 on the freeway doing 100...or maybe 85 in the right hand lane moving past a truck doing 84.9.
I just cant fathom the lack of even the most basic thought / planning and road craft. I guess part of it is the lack of driver education but there must be something else in the water because peoples mistakes seem to come through a complete lack of common sense?!?!
I hate freeway driving here. I feel so uncomfortable when people begin to box you in....someone 3 feet off your tail and the right hand lane clogged with people 3 feet from each other. You cant brake and you cant duck right and then 20 tailgating cars come down a slip road that you have to try and force a space in the middle of.
Law enforcement is a whole other issue. Draconian laws and even more draconian enforcement that again is in no way conducive to improving road safety...I think the way the laws are set up and enforced and to some extent the way the press dramatise 'hooning' has led to the dangerous attitude of "I'm not speeding so I'm safe" while doing nothing to get rid of the true cause of accidents and the terrible road craft.
I guess I could probably write a final dissertation (sp?) on the terrible roads here!!
I have to wonder WTF it is with tailgating here? Its perfectly 'normal' for people to literally sit 3-4 feet from each other in a line of 20 on the freeway doing 100...or maybe 85 in the right hand lane moving past a truck doing 84.9.
I just cant fathom the lack of even the most basic thought / planning and road craft. I guess part of it is the lack of driver education but there must be something else in the water because peoples mistakes seem to come through a complete lack of common sense?!?!
I hate freeway driving here. I feel so uncomfortable when people begin to box you in....someone 3 feet off your tail and the right hand lane clogged with people 3 feet from each other. You cant brake and you cant duck right and then 20 tailgating cars come down a slip road that you have to try and force a space in the middle of.
Law enforcement is a whole other issue. Draconian laws and even more draconian enforcement that again is in no way conducive to improving road safety...I think the way the laws are set up and enforced and to some extent the way the press dramatise 'hooning' has led to the dangerous attitude of "I'm not speeding so I'm safe" while doing nothing to get rid of the true cause of accidents and the terrible road craft.
I guess I could probably write a final dissertation (sp?) on the terrible roads here!!
Being Oz born and bred and never having driven in another country I would offer the the drivers in SA are the most interesting of all but the majority in any state will be poor at best because they never experience anything other than the daily grind apart from the annual road kill period.
In Adelaide you will find a few three lane roads and could well find a speed differential of 50kph between the inside and outside lanes, even in a 60 zone, it's a barrel of laughs as a pedestrian.
There are some brilliant drives though the hills and surrounds of Adelaide though, think not dropping below 90 on the Climb to the Eagle in the very early morning or many others around the wine country.
The big problem with roads in WA is that you can drive for hours on roads that are straight and flat ( boring as batst ) before you find a couple of Ks of interesting stuff.
Too many drivers today have never ridden a motor bike on the road and developed the manners and skill to survive and become quality motoring citizens.
I could go on for hours on this subject but basically most drivers have no idea and the authorities have even less.
In Adelaide you will find a few three lane roads and could well find a speed differential of 50kph between the inside and outside lanes, even in a 60 zone, it's a barrel of laughs as a pedestrian.
There are some brilliant drives though the hills and surrounds of Adelaide though, think not dropping below 90 on the Climb to the Eagle in the very early morning or many others around the wine country.
The big problem with roads in WA is that you can drive for hours on roads that are straight and flat ( boring as bats
t ) before you find a couple of Ks of interesting stuff.Too many drivers today have never ridden a motor bike on the road and developed the manners and skill to survive and become quality motoring citizens.
I could go on for hours on this subject but basically most drivers have no idea and the authorities have even less.
I Must Not Reply, I Must Not Reply.
What everone else said. Perth is the only place i have ever been where i wouldn't want to own a performance car. I own a convertable which makes more sense to me over here than the UK (except for 44 degree days!!!). So nice going to work at 7am with the top down, lol...
Would love to know some "secret"roads to have some fun on, rather than dashing down south for some twisty stuff
What everone else said. Perth is the only place i have ever been where i wouldn't want to own a performance car. I own a convertable which makes more sense to me over here than the UK (except for 44 degree days!!!). So nice going to work at 7am with the top down, lol...
Would love to know some "secret"roads to have some fun on, rather than dashing down south for some twisty stuff
Zig Zag if your brave enough. Last time I went up there it looked like the local council are letting the road get in to a state that will put people off going for a blast...all the corners covered in gravel on purpose, the hairpins are ligned with mahoosive boulders and the bush was growing across the road. I dont think you would really want to push on much on it.
There are some sections of road out there but you need to drive a fair way to find them and they tend to be short sections...look on the Targa West website and you should be able to find the stage maps to download for an idea of where the twisty stuff is. They are never really close enough to just go for a quick blast though!
There are some sections of road out there but you need to drive a fair way to find them and they tend to be short sections...look on the Targa West website and you should be able to find the stage maps to download for an idea of where the twisty stuff is. They are never really close enough to just go for a quick blast though!
deviant said:
Summed it up in one!!I'm a proud n passionate aussie but the first to say that the standard of driver in this country is appalling - naturally there are many exceptions, especially among fellow PH'ders (of course) and generally in the country areas, as stated prior, the attention level improves. Perth & Adelaide are embarrassing - Melb (my home) is similar but with more traffic, QLD.. well, who gives a toss as they spend too much time in the sun anyway, and Sydney is the only place where I feel people pay even remotely the appropriate amount of attention appropriate to a task as important as driving on public roads. But even Sydneysiders are woeful compared with the EU and most other countries. Drive fast, drive crazy, do woteva you like but FFS increase your alertness accordingly and keep your car in some kind of safe working order!!!
some wise man said:
"be alert.. the world needs more lerts"
I seemed to be a magnet for eeediot drivers on the way home today. Normally I get home in 25-30mins on a Friday because I finish at 2. Not today though...50 minutes!! I encountered someone in the left hand lane doing something like 85kmh, wait for the car thats been sitting alongside me to get in front then pull in behind to follow them past...but no...for some reason the pillock in front decides that matching the dawdler in the left lane is a good idea and refuses to budge.
I tried a flash of the lights and was completely ignored.
Now at the end of the freeway the speed goes from 100 - 70 and generally with peoples lack of observation they wait until the 70 sign before braking hard. As we approach the limit change the rolling road block FINALLY moves ahead and back to the left lane and as I'm just getting past him someone in a ute moves from the left in to the emtpy right lane cutting me off AND then brakes down to 70....60....48!!!!!!!
After the end of the freeway it stays at 2 lanes but is an 80kmh section...which was littered with people doing all sorts of speeds in any lane!! GAH!!!
I tried a flash of the lights and was completely ignored.
Now at the end of the freeway the speed goes from 100 - 70 and generally with peoples lack of observation they wait until the 70 sign before braking hard. As we approach the limit change the rolling road block FINALLY moves ahead and back to the left lane and as I'm just getting past him someone in a ute moves from the left in to the emtpy right lane cutting me off AND then brakes down to 70....60....48!!!!!!!
After the end of the freeway it stays at 2 lanes but is an 80kmh section...which was littered with people doing all sorts of speeds in any lane!! GAH!!!
Edited by deviant on Friday 14th November 13:22
Edited by deviant on Friday 14th November 13:23
I've been in Perth a month (coming from central London) and the best way I can describe it is that it feels as if all of the adults have been taken out of the cars and replaced with children. Little girls driving around without a care in the world. Little boys being agressive.
People are very selfish and aggressive drivers, with a very low level of observable driving skill. Driving close, boxing you in (for fun), competitive, poor observation, poor anticipation. Group think.
I recently picked up a motorbike, and once out of town I have found a few nice roads, but getting there.....you take your life in your hands.
I was out shadowing a mate on his new bike. We were about to turn left off of a main road. We had one car in front of us. Someone pulled across the car we were following from the right lane, the one we were following banged the brakes on and stopped dead, my mate banged his brakes on and promptly dropped it (his ultimate error, no real harm done). The person driving the car that caused the accident promptly took the phone from her ear before asking if my mate was ok, then looked back to make sure her two babies were alright. The person driving the car we nearly hit looked shocked, made sure her coast was clear and drove off leaving my mate on the floor. Forget Florence Nightingale!!
What worries me is what the driving says about the people in the country we have emigrated to.
Cheers,
MW.
People are very selfish and aggressive drivers, with a very low level of observable driving skill. Driving close, boxing you in (for fun), competitive, poor observation, poor anticipation. Group think.
I recently picked up a motorbike, and once out of town I have found a few nice roads, but getting there.....you take your life in your hands.
I was out shadowing a mate on his new bike. We were about to turn left off of a main road. We had one car in front of us. Someone pulled across the car we were following from the right lane, the one we were following banged the brakes on and stopped dead, my mate banged his brakes on and promptly dropped it (his ultimate error, no real harm done). The person driving the car that caused the accident promptly took the phone from her ear before asking if my mate was ok, then looked back to make sure her two babies were alright. The person driving the car we nearly hit looked shocked, made sure her coast was clear and drove off leaving my mate on the floor. Forget Florence Nightingale!!
What worries me is what the driving says about the people in the country we have emigrated to.
Cheers,
MW.
Having been here a few years my observation on why drivers are so bad in Australia is that the road safety message has been distilled into one very simple message - if you don't drive over the speed limit then you are safe. Tragically drivers actually believe this and as a result all of the skill required for truly safe driving have gone out of the window (if they were ever there in the first place). You actually hear people say they are safe because they don't 'speed'.
The government really are clueless about road safety and their only solution to a problem is to reduce limits. I don't know how many of you are familiar with Bells Line of Road (Windsor to Lithgow in NSW) but it's a main drive across the Blue Mountains and the RTA have just reduced the limit from 100k's to 80k's along its entire length. The reason? X number of accidents. Now that's a good road (from a PH perspective) and you can be sure that the reason for the crashes was not because all and sundry were driving at 100km/h but because in poor weather for example the bright sparks were driving to the speed limit signs and not the conditions because (repeat after me) 'if you don't speed you can't crash'. So, if you want to use that road prepare for an extended journey because you can be sure the cops will be out in force.
As someone said already, 'don't get me started', and whilst I am getting started, why is Harold Scruby of the Pedestrian Council of Australia given such a hearing by the government and the media? That man is one of the biggest impediments to road safety in the country.
And breathe.
The government really are clueless about road safety and their only solution to a problem is to reduce limits. I don't know how many of you are familiar with Bells Line of Road (Windsor to Lithgow in NSW) but it's a main drive across the Blue Mountains and the RTA have just reduced the limit from 100k's to 80k's along its entire length. The reason? X number of accidents. Now that's a good road (from a PH perspective) and you can be sure that the reason for the crashes was not because all and sundry were driving at 100km/h but because in poor weather for example the bright sparks were driving to the speed limit signs and not the conditions because (repeat after me) 'if you don't speed you can't crash'. So, if you want to use that road prepare for an extended journey because you can be sure the cops will be out in force.
As someone said already, 'don't get me started', and whilst I am getting started, why is Harold Scruby of the Pedestrian Council of Australia given such a hearing by the government and the media? That man is one of the biggest impediments to road safety in the country.
And breathe.
80Bob said:
Having been here a few years my observation on why drivers are so bad in Australia is that the road safety message has been distilled into one very simple message - if you don't drive over the speed limit then you are safe. Tragically drivers actually believe this and as a result all of the skill required for truly safe driving have gone out of the window (if they were ever there in the first place). You actually hear people say they are safe because they don't 'speed'.
The government really are clueless about road safety and their only solution to a problem is to reduce limits. I don't know how many of you are familiar with Bells Line of Road (Windsor to Lithgow in NSW) but it's a main drive across the Blue Mountains and the RTA have just reduced the limit from 100k's to 80k's along its entire length. The reason? X number of accidents. Now that's a good road (from a PH perspective) and you can be sure that the reason for the crashes was not because all and sundry were driving at 100km/h but because in poor weather for example the bright sparks were driving to the speed limit signs and not the conditions because (repeat after me) 'if you don't speed you can't crash'. So, if you want to use that road prepare for an extended journey because you can be sure the cops will be out in force.
As someone said already, 'don't get me started', and whilst I am getting started, why is Harold Scruby of the Pedestrian Council of Australia given such a hearing by the government and the media? That man is one of the biggest impediments to road safety in the country.
And breathe.
Rational people aren't going to believe they're safe as long as they're below the limit. Most people are semi-rational, and I'm certain it's a minority that thinks you're safe if you aren't speeding. Most people are ok, they just slip up occasionally likely due to lack of attention. Sure, there's plenty who shouldn't be on the road, but it's a lack of focus (and ultimately having no regard for the potential lethality) that causes problems.The government really are clueless about road safety and their only solution to a problem is to reduce limits. I don't know how many of you are familiar with Bells Line of Road (Windsor to Lithgow in NSW) but it's a main drive across the Blue Mountains and the RTA have just reduced the limit from 100k's to 80k's along its entire length. The reason? X number of accidents. Now that's a good road (from a PH perspective) and you can be sure that the reason for the crashes was not because all and sundry were driving at 100km/h but because in poor weather for example the bright sparks were driving to the speed limit signs and not the conditions because (repeat after me) 'if you don't speed you can't crash'. So, if you want to use that road prepare for an extended journey because you can be sure the cops will be out in force.
As someone said already, 'don't get me started', and whilst I am getting started, why is Harold Scruby of the Pedestrian Council of Australia given such a hearing by the government and the media? That man is one of the biggest impediments to road safety in the country.
And breathe.
The government isn't clueless, they just don't give a s
t. Proper driving education requires a significant investment, and most governments are happy to slap on some sort of bandaid measure that appears to work. Limits are lowered for cheap popularity points (despite the fact that it pisses off many/most people), to reinforce the "speed is dangerous" crap that many (still a minority) foolishly buy into, to raise revenue, and in some cases to try and discourage use. Example, if a motorway toll isn't bringing in enough, an alternate route may be made inconvenient
. Finally, authority often tries to uses punishment to govern.Gassing Station | Australia | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff