The Holden Commodore is dead

[Jader1973]

Announced today.

The rise of the SUV claims another victim.

Nothing on Holden's website so the SMH will have to do.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/the-hold...

Shame as the ZB is actually a very good car.

[Kawasicki]

Drove many of the old RWD ones. They were brill. Haven’t driven the FWD one...so can comment on it.

Sad day for Aussie car fans like me!

[irocfan]

"At the peak of large car sales in 1998, Australians bought more than 217,000 vehicles, but those figures are likely to reach only about 8700 cars this year."


that is some collapse

Go green, go SUV Greta has her work cut out

[Nunga]

It’s disgraceful, and a sign of the times. Long live the 3-box-sedan and its wagon counterpart.

[Hackney2]

Nobody in this country wanted the Insignia.GM have no idea.Ford retired the Falcon in 2016,as Holden should have retired the Commodore nameplate.There was enormous amount of backlash on the Insignia,was hardly selling @ all,sold 300 odd units in November,plus on the downside it was a Euro,you cannot beat RWD in this country.

[Bibbs]

Then throw in the part where Holden took tax payer money with a promise to continue car making, gave the cash to GM USA, closed manufacturing and imported ste Opals.

[Pommy]

The Astra is also stopping from 2020.

I have one and its pretty decent - certainly nothing in its class comes close to it for what it offers at the price. ECOTY and all that as well.

Probably not a great loss but if these cars were badged Hyundai and not Holden theyd sell a load.

[irocfan]

Hackney2 said:

you cannot beat RWD in this country.

aren't all the Japanese and Korean cars FWD though?

[Hackney2]

irocfan said:

aren't all the Japanese and Korean cars FWD though?

Yes they are,but there is still a lot of diehards who want RWD.When the Falcon went out of production,there was an uproar.Ford brought in the Mustang(same version as you are getting) there was up to a year waiting list.It has since settled down.I bought one with just 10,000ks on the clock.(elderly gent owned down on the south coast & was just not using it.) was a bargain,he copped all the depreciation.A lot of Commodore/Falcon owners(especially the performance variants) are hanging on to them.Best selling vehicles are now RWD dual cab utes.#1:Hilux,#2 Ford Ranger.Selling bucket loads of them.

[Pommy]

Hackney2 said:

.Best selling vehicles are now RWD dual cab utes.#1:Hilux,#2 Ford Ranger.Selling bucket loads of them.

Are you able to share the source for this?

My understanding is that 4x4 outsells the 2wd variants by between 5 and 10-1 with the sales being to corporates making up the volume and their need for 4wd.

Edit - found it.

This is Vcats Oct 19
4x2 Utes (2390, down 16.1 per cent): Toyota HiLux (838), Isuzu D-Max (382), Ford Ranger (287)

4x4 Utes (12,707, down 9.3 per cent): Ford Ranger (2873), Toyota HiLux (2678), Holden Colorado (1218)

Edited by Pommy on Wednesday 11th December 22:50

[Bibbs]

Pommy said:

Are you able to share the source for this?

My understanding is that 4x4 outsells the 2wd variants by between 5 and 10-1 with the sales being to corporates making up the volume and their need for 4wd.

Edit - found it.

This is Vcats Oct 19
4x2 Utes (2390, down 16.1 per cent): Toyota HiLux (838), Isuzu D-Max (382), Ford Ranger (287)

4x4 Utes (12,707, down 9.3 per cent): Ford Ranger (2873), Toyota HiLux (2678), Holden Colorado (1218)

Yup, Utes are also getting a hammering. It's only soft SUVs that seem to be selling well.

I was looking at new Hiluxes, gone are the good petrol v6s! The fastest Hilux now is slower than the previous gen 4.0 v6.
Now if you want a petrol Land Cruiser, there isn't one, you have to look at the Patrol (which don't have diesels).

I *really* don't want diesel. So I've been looking at 10 year old Hilux TRDs instead. But they are uncommon and have done moon miles.

[Hackney2]

Pommy said:

Are you able to share the source for this?

My understanding is that 4x4 outsells the 2wd variants by between 5 and 10-1 with the sales being to corporates making up the volume and their need for 4wd.



VFACTs(Nov 2019) Hilux:3687(down 21.1%) Ranger:3491(up 0.6%) Mitsubishi Triton:3123(up 29.9%!)

4x4 segment: Ranger 3218.Hilux:2875.Triton:2795.Ranger & Hilux are trading blows month to month

Edited by Pommy on Wednesday 11th December 22:50

[wisbech]

Kia Stinger only sold 113 in November. So isn’t that Aussies are flocking to RWD fast saloons.

[Hackney2]

wisbech said:

Kia Stinger only sold 113 in November. So isn’t that Aussies are flocking to RWD fast saloons.

As I alluded to in my previous post( you did read it?) Dual cab utes are the biggest sellers.And yes they are RWD or AWD.Stinger is a bit of a niche market,as is the Mustang now.There also is the Ford Everest(Ranger platform) in RWD or AWD.

[hman]

I've had the vfII (rwd) and the zb (awd) and I have to say that the zb is the much more modern car of the two.

They shouldnt have called the zb a commodore, as the Aussies hated that fact - they should have called it something else (insignia has got a bad name for some reason).

The VFII interior was about as modern as an e39, the ZB's is bang up to date.

The VFII could do drifts and donuts with little provocation, the awd ZB can still do it but as its awd you have to really push it to get it there - apart from that they both drive nicely and arent short of power .

Anyway the market is strong for v8 vfII's and its not for the ZB (even the V6 AWD) so you pay your money and you take your choice., but to say the ZB is not a good car is an ignorant statement, you dont have to buy the fwd one - as indeed you didnt have to buy an evoke with the earlier commodore

[Hackney2]

hman said:

I've had the vfII (rwd) and the zb (awd) and I have to say that the zb is the much more modern car of the two.

They shouldnt have called the zb a commodore, as the Aussies hated that fact - they should have called it something else (insignia has got a bad name for some reason).

The VFII interior was about as modern as an e39, the ZB's is bang up to date.

The VFII could do drifts and donuts with little provocation, the awd ZB can still do it but as its awd you have to really push it to get it there - apart from that they both drive nicely and arent short of power .

Anyway the market is strong for v8 vfII's and its not for the ZB (even the V6 AWD) so you pay your money and you take your choice., but to say the ZB is not a good car is an ignorant statement, you dont have to buy the fwd one - as indeed you didnt have to buy an evoke with the earlier commodore

Yup,well said,still plenty of VF11s for sale,& also quite a few of the last of the FGX XR8s.Good buying if that what floats your boat.Saw a lovely example the other day when I had my Mustang GT in for its 15,000 k service @ the local Ford dealer.Guy bought it new,really very nice in “kinetic blue”.

[Jader1973]

Hackney2 said:

wisbech said:

Kia Stinger only sold 113 in November. So isn’t that Aussies are flocking to RWD fast saloons.

As I alluded to in my previous post( you did read it?) Dual cab utes are the biggest sellers.And yes they are RWD or AWD.Stinger is a bit of a niche market,as is the Mustang now.There also is the Ford Everest(Ranger platform) in RWD or AWD.

.

Your argument is very confused.

First you state the Commodore died because people want RWD and then you use the rise of the 4WD pick up market to justify that statement. None of which makes sense.

The fact is that the market has shifted away from passenger cars (irrespective of drive type) to SUVs (again, irrespective of drive type) and pick ups.

As such the segment the Commodore was in is declining and in Holden’s case no longer viable.

People don’t buy pick ups because they are RWD, they buy them because the are pick ups.

The Mustang is a bad example. It is down 38% compared to last year. Only did 119 in November so people aren’t buying it.

The best selling RWD passenger car is the C Class at 6242 YTD, best selling passenger car is the FWD Corolla at 27691 YTD.

Ignoring people movers and upper large luxury cars over $100k, FWD / AWD passenger cars have sold roughly 250k YTD and RWD 16k. The market does not prefer RWD passenger cars.


So, in summary, the Commodore wouldn’t have been selling in huge numbers even if it was RWD because that segment is dead.

[Teddy Lop]

Jader1973 said:

Your argument is very confused.

First you state the Commodore died because people want RWD and then you use the rise of the 4WD pick up market to justify that statement. None of which makes sense.

The fact is that the market has shifted away from passenger cars (irrespective of drive type) to SUVs (again, irrespective of drive type) and pick ups.

As such the segment the Commodore was in is declining and in Holden’s case no longer viable.

People don’t buy pick ups because they are RWD, they buy them because the are pick ups.

The Mustang is a bad example. It is down 38% compared to last year. Only did 119 in November so people aren’t buying it.

The best selling RWD passenger car is the C Class at 6242 YTD, best selling passenger car is the FWD Corolla at 27691 YTD.

Ignoring people movers and upper large luxury cars over $100k, FWD / AWD passenger cars have sold roughly 250k YTD and RWD 16k. The market does not prefer RWD passenger cars.


So, in summary, the Commodore wouldn’t have been selling in huge numbers even if it was RWD because that segment is dead.

same story everywhere, as with the grand tours demise of Ford's midsize car episode, the would be purchasers of new cars in this segment are going German (taxicabs) or SUV (families). As with many petrolhead complaints about why-dont-car-makers-do-x, the most vocal complainants are perhaps not people who buy many new cars!

[forzaminardi]

Agree with the above. I doubt very much that more than a small majority of drivers are concerned whether their car is F- or RWD. I suspect also that many people who choose 4WD really would know the difference unless they have a genuine need for off-roading.

Ford didn't bring the Mustang to Oz to placate droves of RWD-addicted Australians raising hell about the Falcon being binned - they brought it to Oz because it was designed to be a global product. If the demand for Ford Falcons had been so great that people were getting in a state about it being cancelled then I suspect Ford wouldn't have cancelled it! Ditto the RWD Commodore and the current one - yes people who are particular fans of it will bemoan its passing but there simply aren't that many of them willing to shell out to buy a new one. Meanwhile, although Mustangs have been popular in Oz, I suspect that sales will tail off for a while simply because everyone who wants one and has the money and lifestyle to have one, has one.

Saloon style cars are simply less popular these days, for the simple reason that they're not really as practical as a SUV for the majority of drivers. A typical SUV has more space, is more accessible and so on for families. Even myself as a family man determined NOT to have a SUV can see the appeal when I'm trying to fit my daughter and her bits and pieces in a pretty biggish saloon (Accord Euro). Sadly the wagon/estate style car seems inexplicably unpopular in Oz compared to Europe - I'm after a Alfa 159 SW or decent-engined Audi A/S4 estate as a compromise between practicality and being a real car, but they are thin on the ground.

[A44RON]

When the day comes that I need a more family-friendly car, I will opt for an VF-II SS-V wagon. Or at worst, an Octavia vRS wagon - still a very good car, although I would prefer more cylinders than seats.

I will avoid SUVs at all costs. When I was a nipper my parents had a Sierra xr4x4 2.9 V6 hatchback and they managed fine with two kids and two dogs.