Bilt Hamber and their chaotic dilution formula
Discussion
Now, i'm a simple man but consider myself decently educated. I'll also pre-answer what all of you will say "Oi, Davie - you're over thinking this...."
I'll preface this by stating that i think it has to be this complicated as the flow of water discharged over the period of time it takes to empty the bottle is important (more water, more product, less water, less product) but i guess the question i *really* have is that we simply have to do this once and providing we don't change pressure washers or use larger snow foam bottles then we don't have to do this consistently.
Maybe i'm not that educated now i think about it, but i'll take one for the team...
I even asked chat GPT to help me out and said that it takes 3 litres of pressure water to empty the 1 litre bottle, it says if that's the case and i've added 40ml (4%) then the effective dilution is actually 1%, and this makes sense to match the total amount of water delivered. So, to achieve an *effective* 4% dilution over 4 litres of water being delivered (including the one litre bottle) then i must at 160ml to achieve 4%.
Can someone that can count please put me out of my misery? Surely if i simply add 40ml to a one litre bottle then i get a good PIR? I haven't even thought about what the impact of adjusting the snow foam lance to min / max might do. At this point i'm just going to burn a bottle of product and see what happens....
So, when i commited to buying some of the mega rated Touchless snow foam i thought i would look up what i need for my 1 litre snow foam bottle.
Bilt hamber doesn't use simplicity... oh no.... they use PIR (Panel Impact Ratio) ffs.
https://bilthamber.com/product/touch-less/ - click on "how to use" and these maniacs will have you fill a litre of water into the bottle then discharge into a bucket until the bottle is empty. Then multiply this by your required dilution (0.04 for 4% for heavily dirty cars, 0.02 for 2% for a maintenance wash and so on).
You take that total amount and then bung the value calculated into the bottle.
Why, for all that is holy can't they simply say for 1 litre of water simply add 40ml to the bottle for 4% , 20ml for 2% and be done with it?? Why do they need to try and explain this like scientists (granted that's what they are)....
Sake!
Even ChatGPT is dumbing it down...
I'll preface this by stating that i think it has to be this complicated as the flow of water discharged over the period of time it takes to empty the bottle is important (more water, more product, less water, less product) but i guess the question i *really* have is that we simply have to do this once and providing we don't change pressure washers or use larger snow foam bottles then we don't have to do this consistently.
Maybe i'm not that educated now i think about it, but i'll take one for the team...
I even asked chat GPT to help me out and said that it takes 3 litres of pressure water to empty the 1 litre bottle, it says if that's the case and i've added 40ml (4%) then the effective dilution is actually 1%, and this makes sense to match the total amount of water delivered. So, to achieve an *effective* 4% dilution over 4 litres of water being delivered (including the one litre bottle) then i must at 160ml to achieve 4%.
Can someone that can count please put me out of my misery? Surely if i simply add 40ml to a one litre bottle then i get a good PIR? I haven't even thought about what the impact of adjusting the snow foam lance to min / max might do. At this point i'm just going to burn a bottle of product and see what happens....
So, when i commited to buying some of the mega rated Touchless snow foam i thought i would look up what i need for my 1 litre snow foam bottle.
Bilt hamber doesn't use simplicity... oh no.... they use PIR (Panel Impact Ratio) ffs.
https://bilthamber.com/product/touch-less/ - click on "how to use" and these maniacs will have you fill a litre of water into the bottle then discharge into a bucket until the bottle is empty. Then multiply this by your required dilution (0.04 for 4% for heavily dirty cars, 0.02 for 2% for a maintenance wash and so on).
You take that total amount and then bung the value calculated into the bottle.
Why, for all that is holy can't they simply say for 1 litre of water simply add 40ml to the bottle for 4% , 20ml for 2% and be done with it?? Why do they need to try and explain this like scientists (granted that's what they are)....
Sake!
Even ChatGPT is dumbing it down...
Edited by Davie_GLA on Tuesday 29th October 22:39
You want the solution in the bucket to be at 4% - that’s the concentration you want it to be coming out of the nozzle. If you start with 4% in the pressure washer reservoir (40 mL in 1 L) then it will be too dilute on the car; using your example of 3 L in the bucket as the total volume that comes out of the washer in the time it takes to empty the reservoir (which seems far too small a volume anyway - I would expect more) then the “PIR” is 40 mL in 3000 = 1.3 %
And yes, I agree that the way BH describe the calculation is confusing.
And yes, I agree that the way BH describe the calculation is confusing.
darreni said:
Using a karcher k4 and autoglym snow foam blaster thing, I put 300 mil of touchless into the bottle & topped up with warm water - 700 mil ish.
This is inline with bh’s recommendations.
Cheers, i have a K4 and the only number i'm not sure about is flow from the washer. If you're putting 300ml in ant the total amount of liquid delivered is 4000ml then that must be approaching 9-10% dilution. Will do the job but wonder if theres room to reduce waste. This is inline with bh’s recommendations.
It is because of the variability between machines of how much detergent is sucked out of the bottle per litre of water flowing through the machine.
Putting a litre in the bottle then measuring how much water it takes to empty it gives you the 'machine dilution ratio', and you need to take this into account to mix the liquid to put in the bottle. A machine that empties the bottle twice as quickly, (ie with half the amount of water through the machine) needs half the amount of concentrate in the mix in the bottle to give the correct dilution at the nozzle.
Putting a litre in the bottle then measuring how much water it takes to empty it gives you the 'machine dilution ratio', and you need to take this into account to mix the liquid to put in the bottle. A machine that empties the bottle twice as quickly, (ie with half the amount of water through the machine) needs half the amount of concentrate in the mix in the bottle to give the correct dilution at the nozzle.
Davie_GLA said:
Cheers, i have a K4 and the only number i'm not sure about is flow from the washer. If you're putting 300ml in ant the total amount of liquid delivered is 4000ml then that must be approaching 9-10% dilution. Will do the job but wonder if theres room to reduce waste.
It’s not set in stone, have a play with the ratios until you get the performance/ product cost ratio to your liking. I did the litre of water in the spray bottle, set the rate/release valve to the normal setting and run it into a bucket. Then did the maths …. Then they reformulated it….
Touch On is around 30ml to a litre bottle, it’s much lower than Touch Less.
Touch On is around 30ml to a litre bottle, it’s much lower than Touch Less.
Edited by Johno on Wednesday 30th October 19:43
MonteCarlos1 said:
Is this the new touchless or old touchless formulation you're referring to?
The new one is much more concentrated and has a max PIR of 2% for heavy soiling, with 0.5-1% being enough for maintenance washes.
If you use 4% PIR you might damage whatever wax/coating you have on the paint.
The new formula, should have stated that actually on the post and was part of the reason for the post. The new one is much more concentrated and has a max PIR of 2% for heavy soiling, with 0.5-1% being enough for maintenance washes.
If you use 4% PIR you might damage whatever wax/coating you have on the paint.
I am looking to trip the car back from whatever is on there though - previous owner and me have attempted all sorts of things to deal with the swirls. I'm looking to get it back to bare swirls, but not bare paint / primer
. Then from there i'll combat some swirls as best i can or just get some layers on for the winter and attack the swirls in the spring. Robertb said:
I apply it with a pump-action sprayer bottle. The foaming action adds no cleaning value, and it avoids all the calculation faff as you just add the percentage of the capacity of the bottle.
Yeah, I thing the foam is just there to provide extended hang time that in theory should lift more crud. Gassing Station | Bodywork & Detailing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff