Advice on car paint/body re paint types/blending
Discussion
I'd appreciate input for better understanding and maybe a bit advice.
Ok, so I have a 1994 Merc SL, in a non metallic red, that I'm working on.
The paint looked awful, the car had been sat outside unused for years. However I've just discovered it's been (previously) painted in 2k paint so I have been able to cut it back by wet sanding and machining it back to a fantastic shine. Also it's not looking terrifically faded.
The 2k full respray could easily have been done 20 years ago. It appears the car was originally basecoat/clear coat.
New wings need fitted/painted. and I plan on getting various things painted off the car (including the wings- I realise it might be challenging to get a good match). Car is presently stripped a fair bit as I'm doing an underbody restoration. Finding the paint is coming back is a bonus as it's saving me making a body shop an essential first stop.
A few key questions
1. Is cellulose the most common paint used these days?
2. I gather you can still get 2k paint (for commercials or farm vehicle painting) even although a general bodyshop isn't supposed to use it. Is it generally a no no now in the UK?
3. Is there any advantage to using 2k or has it become quite normal to match a basecoat/clear coat to an older 2k paint?
4. Re 3, how can a 2k panel and a clear coat panel be blended?
Bottom line is that I'd be very pleased if the new wings could be matched well to the current paint.
Some advice/understanding of this appreciated.
Not the greatest picture but the paint colour has come back nicely as per underneath the flattened door, an area never exposed to sunlight.
Ok, so I have a 1994 Merc SL, in a non metallic red, that I'm working on.
The paint looked awful, the car had been sat outside unused for years. However I've just discovered it's been (previously) painted in 2k paint so I have been able to cut it back by wet sanding and machining it back to a fantastic shine. Also it's not looking terrifically faded.
The 2k full respray could easily have been done 20 years ago. It appears the car was originally basecoat/clear coat.
New wings need fitted/painted. and I plan on getting various things painted off the car (including the wings- I realise it might be challenging to get a good match). Car is presently stripped a fair bit as I'm doing an underbody restoration. Finding the paint is coming back is a bonus as it's saving me making a body shop an essential first stop.
A few key questions
1. Is cellulose the most common paint used these days?
2. I gather you can still get 2k paint (for commercials or farm vehicle painting) even although a general bodyshop isn't supposed to use it. Is it generally a no no now in the UK?
3. Is there any advantage to using 2k or has it become quite normal to match a basecoat/clear coat to an older 2k paint?
4. Re 3, how can a 2k panel and a clear coat panel be blended?
Bottom line is that I'd be very pleased if the new wings could be matched well to the current paint.
Some advice/understanding of this appreciated.
Not the greatest picture but the paint colour has come back nicely as per underneath the flattened door, an area never exposed to sunlight.
Edited by scotshaggis on Tuesday 16th April 18:55
Edited by scotshaggis on Tuesday 16th April 18:58
scotshaggis said:
1. Is cellulose the most common paint used these days?
No cellulose hasn't been used for decades. You seem to be confused. Cellulose is very, very old fashioned. 2K is more recent in the refinish trade, albeit, introduced late '70s/early '80s.scotshaggis said:
2. I gather you can still get 2k paint (for commercials or farm vehicle painting) even although a general bodyshop isn't supposed to use it. Is it generally a no no now in the UK?
Why can't a bodyshop use 2K? Who told you that? Are you confusing (since you mention commercials and farm vehicle painting), 2K with synthetic? You don't want to be painting your car with synthetic enamel.scotshaggis said:
I'd appreciate input for better understanding and maybe a bit advice.
3. Is there any advantage to using 2k or has it become quite normal to match a basecoat/clear coat to an older 2k paint?
4. Re 3, how can a 2k panel and a clear coat panel be blended?
Are you confusing 2K with basecoat/clear coat? Modern basecoat/clear coat is 2K. Do you know what 2K means? It means that a hardener is added to the paint, thus a two-component paint.3. Is there any advantage to using 2k or has it become quite normal to match a basecoat/clear coat to an older 2k paint?
4. Re 3, how can a 2k panel and a clear coat panel be blended?
Anyway, to avoid any further confusion, speak to a local, friendly bodyshop and they will advise you on how they would proceed.
I'm aware clearcoat is still 2k but the paint on the car isn't clear coated over. So I believe it's the type no longer used referred to as two pack or 2k?
It does sound like the single stage two pack isn't used anymore because it is hazardous and requires air fed respirators etc. I've read you can buy it but it isn't or shouldn't be, for car use.
So looking to understand whats normally done if needing to match/blend this older type paint system.
Blending on to a door from a wing seems like that'd be all about working with existing clear coat but my panels aren't clear coated over.
It does sound like the single stage two pack isn't used anymore because it is hazardous and requires air fed respirators etc. I've read you can buy it but it isn't or shouldn't be, for car use.
So looking to understand whats normally done if needing to match/blend this older type paint system.
Blending on to a door from a wing seems like that'd be all about working with existing clear coat but my panels aren't clear coated over.
Edited by scotshaggis on Wednesday 17th April 07:35
Cellulose started to phase out in the mid 70s with the introduction of the 2k materials. I was working in a motor factors at the time & it stood the refinish industry on its head.
Synthetic enamels were used on coaches & lorries - we used to sell Valentine paints & theirs were Valflash for spraying & Valrex for brush application.
I believe you are thinking of 2k Topcoat.
This is a 2k ('2 komponent' as already explained) acrylic paint which is shiny from the gun & doesn't require a clearcoat.
Used for commercial vehicles & solid colours - no metallic, pearls etc - only.
The older solid reds, greens & blues were a nightmare for oxidising - going dull & usually referred to by many as 'fading'.
Usual temporary cure was to polish with a cutting compound which would remove the oxidised layer & expose a nice new shiny layer to the atmosphere.
Which would then start oxidising again, although could be slowed by regular use of a good quality polish & even then you would be removing paint which would show as colour on the polishing cloth.
Eventually with the repeated process you would get the primer colour showing through & in the case of reds with a white primer the car would start to look pink & then it's respray time.
Red BTW is a 'low hider' & often needs umpteen colour coats to hide the primer.
We had an old Metro in a solid blue & that was a pig for oxidising.
I was painting a customer's car & had mixed up too much clearcoat.
I quickly flatted a wing of the Metro & gave it two coats of clear.
That wing stayed shiny from then until the day it went to the scrapyard some years later.
If you want the finish to last, I wouldn't recommend using anything other than a good quality basecoat & clearcoat system.
Synthetic enamels were used on coaches & lorries - we used to sell Valentine paints & theirs were Valflash for spraying & Valrex for brush application.
I believe you are thinking of 2k Topcoat.
This is a 2k ('2 komponent' as already explained) acrylic paint which is shiny from the gun & doesn't require a clearcoat.
Used for commercial vehicles & solid colours - no metallic, pearls etc - only.
The older solid reds, greens & blues were a nightmare for oxidising - going dull & usually referred to by many as 'fading'.
Usual temporary cure was to polish with a cutting compound which would remove the oxidised layer & expose a nice new shiny layer to the atmosphere.
Which would then start oxidising again, although could be slowed by regular use of a good quality polish & even then you would be removing paint which would show as colour on the polishing cloth.
Eventually with the repeated process you would get the primer colour showing through & in the case of reds with a white primer the car would start to look pink & then it's respray time.
Red BTW is a 'low hider' & often needs umpteen colour coats to hide the primer.
We had an old Metro in a solid blue & that was a pig for oxidising.
I was painting a customer's car & had mixed up too much clearcoat.
I quickly flatted a wing of the Metro & gave it two coats of clear.
That wing stayed shiny from then until the day it went to the scrapyard some years later.
If you want the finish to last, I wouldn't recommend using anything other than a good quality basecoat & clearcoat system.
Edited by paintman on Wednesday 17th April 12:10
Thanks for the reply/replies and info
I was aware my paint is single stage 2K. Main question is needing new wings matched. The colour has come back exceptionally well. In the meantime I need other parts painted but would be happy to avoid getting the whole vehicle painted. It being a surprise the paint has come back to life really well- albeit with a lot of hard work (800/1200/1500/2000/2500 and many passes with a DA polisher!)
So can the existing panels clear coated over if for example the new panel (wings) are base and clear coat? I ask this regarding blending. I had paint made up recently in rattle cans and a tin for use in areas not on the main body and thought it was cellulose. I was maybe wrong. Whatever it is, it's got a strong, strong smell!
I was aware my paint is single stage 2K. Main question is needing new wings matched. The colour has come back exceptionally well. In the meantime I need other parts painted but would be happy to avoid getting the whole vehicle painted. It being a surprise the paint has come back to life really well- albeit with a lot of hard work (800/1200/1500/2000/2500 and many passes with a DA polisher!)
So can the existing panels clear coated over if for example the new panel (wings) are base and clear coat? I ask this regarding blending. I had paint made up recently in rattle cans and a tin for use in areas not on the main body and thought it was cellulose. I was maybe wrong. Whatever it is, it's got a strong, strong smell!
An exact eyematch by a good mixer is the best way of getting a good match to the existing colour.
Usually turns out better than anything any machine can turn out.
You will need to find a motor factor that does paint & offers an eyematching service.
They will need a piece of the vehicle - larger is better, many just send in a fuel filler flap which isn't ideal.
There is a charge over & above the cost of the paint & ideally find one that also notes what they have done - i.e a formula for your eyematch so if you need more at some point in the future then they should be able to supply without incurring a further charge.
BUT you may still need to blend out onto the panels you've cleaned & occasionally that doesn't work & perfect is a full or side respray.
I do a lot of caravan paintwork for a midlands caravan dealer & use Sayers at Northampton for matches.
Usually turns out better than anything any machine can turn out.
You will need to find a motor factor that does paint & offers an eyematching service.
They will need a piece of the vehicle - larger is better, many just send in a fuel filler flap which isn't ideal.
There is a charge over & above the cost of the paint & ideally find one that also notes what they have done - i.e a formula for your eyematch so if you need more at some point in the future then they should be able to supply without incurring a further charge.
BUT you may still need to blend out onto the panels you've cleaned & occasionally that doesn't work & perfect is a full or side respray.
I do a lot of caravan paintwork for a midlands caravan dealer & use Sayers at Northampton for matches.
If the 2k on your car has previously faded there's a good chance it will do so again.....and if you blend basecoat into the doors it might match initially but if the old paint fades again it will look off colour.
Best best is to paint the whole car in base and clear,if you intend keeping it long term
Best best is to paint the whole car in base and clear,if you intend keeping it long term
Yes, I realise that may have to happen but in the meantime would like to try and match/blend
Invested a fair bit already in the vehicle doing an underbody (and suspension) restoration and I haven’t even driven it! Got it running fine and really had to tackle brake and fuel pipes due to them being corroded.
It looks A1/concours underneath now but it’d be good for the next step to be getting it looking presentable without a full paint on the immediate agenda.
Invested a fair bit already in the vehicle doing an underbody (and suspension) restoration and I haven’t even driven it! Got it running fine and really had to tackle brake and fuel pipes due to them being corroded.
It looks A1/concours underneath now but it’d be good for the next step to be getting it looking presentable without a full paint on the immediate agenda.
Yes, I realise that may have to happen but in the meantime would like to try and match/blend
Invested a fair bit already in the vehicle doing an underbody (and suspension) restoration and I haven’t even driven it! Got it running fine and really had to tackle brake and fuel pipes due to them being corroded.
It looks A1/concours underneath now but it’d be good for the next step to be getting it looking presentable without a full paint on the immediate agenda.
Invested a fair bit already in the vehicle doing an underbody (and suspension) restoration and I haven’t even driven it! Got it running fine and really had to tackle brake and fuel pipes due to them being corroded.
It looks A1/concours underneath now but it’d be good for the next step to be getting it looking presentable without a full paint on the immediate agenda.
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