Rust refresh regrets – what should I do? (+Croatia roadtrip)

[Kewy]

First of all, stuck this in GG as I can't find a 'restoration' or 'rust treatment' sub, feel free to move if needed.

Now I know by nature this is the kind of subject where there will be a thousand different answers, and I've spent hours searching the internet for answers but I thought I'd see what PH thought.

Last year we picked up a 2003 Honda Stepwagon that's been converted into a mini-camper. It's a Japanese import, and unlike my other car, which is also an import but has some rust protection treatment when it was imported, the Stepwagon doesn't appear to have had any treatment, although its in fairly good nick underneath and has been in the country since 2007, so whether it was dry stored in the past or maybe it did have a wax treatment thats worn off (althought no sign of that), I do not know.

To prevent this thread just being a bunch of underbody photos, heres a couple of shots from our road trip to Croatia we did in it in the summer:




(If this thread gets some traction then I can share more of the travel snaps to keep it at least remotely interesting )

Anyway, I decided that whilst we'll use this more in the summer, it will be left outside all year round, and likely get used from time to time in the winter months so I would take it upon myself to give it a bit of protection. As I say, there are lots of views on the best method if protection, and I hadn't quite decided on the final product, but I think the initial plan was to do a minor strip down, this would include bumpers, front suspension, exhaust, brackets,
heat shields etc, but leave the fuel tank and subframes in situ. I was then going to thoroughly clean, 'address' the worst areas of rust, anti-corrosive primer and then Gravitex. Less vunerable areas and areas that seem to have been protected from the elements thus far, I was going to use a wax sealant of some kind. Job done. Van's life prolonged.

The first steps all went to plan, van stripped and thoroughly cleaned and I was feeling rather good about the project, here's some photos of the arches and the underside to give you an idea of the condition:





As you can see, rust is merely surface rust, and here are the worst areas, which are the rear corners, and parts of the inner sill area:



Today I decided to head up and tackle some of the worse areas of rust:




However as I imagine is often the case with these things, I'm finding myself questioning how far I should take it. If I follow every single small patch of surface rust this could very quickly become a full underbody restoration project, which is not what I had intended this to be, and with a time limit of end of January I don't really have the time for either!

So what do you think I should do with this? Am I going in the right direction with taking everything back to bare metal and should I just plough on? I'm not sure if I'm just having a lack of motivation today but I'm starting to regret taking this on a little. All I wanted to do was protect the van and give it a bit of a chance of withstanding UK road grime.

Also worth adding that I'm doing this on axle stands, so access isn't great. I have a compressor but no proper ventilation or air fed mask so two-pack paints and treatments are probably out the quesions. Any thoughts?

[alexmonkey]

Nice wagon!

Bilt Hamber Hydrate 80 rust treatment applied liberally to bare metal or wire-brushed surface rust will kill the rust even in the metal’s “pores”. You can leave that on the car as if it was paint.

Then a layer of zinc primer - again Bilt Hamber’s zinc primer rattle cans is what I use and is very durable.

Next would be a layer of rattle can or brushed-on Hammerite in the colour of your choosing.

Extra points are available for applying a layer of aerosol wax - I can’t remember what I used last but it came in litre rattle cans and made a bloody mess of everything in the vicinity.

Good luck!

A

[Belle427]

I tried Hydrate 80 and wasnt impressed with it tbh.
Jenolite do a spray converter which is supposed to be quite good and easy to apply.
Have a look at this video, he does a similar job, the raptor coat is probably a bit overkill but you can get a product called body schutz or underbody seal which is a bit more durable and does a similar job. It can also be easily applied using the compressor and a schutz gun.
Id avoid Hammerite too, its not the product it used to be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukOhMciAA7o

[V8covin]

Hammerite is utter garbage,I can't believe anyone uses it.It doesn't prevent rust in any way and contains silicone which means you can't overcoat it with anything else.
I've had success with hydrate 80, it's the only rust treatment I'd recommend,maybe you aren't applying it correctly.
I haven't used it myself but an epoxy mastic paint is supposed to be a good product

[Belle427]

Rustoleum paint is pretty good too if you did want brush applied.

[dhutch]

I have no experience of it, but raptor is a name I have heard a few times before, and is also what the local body shop is apparently using ok the underside of my e46 which is having a underbody restoration.

Dinatrol is the other major name in underbody and cavity wax sealant type products.

[V8covin]

dhutch said:

I have no experience of it, but raptor is a name I have heard a few times before, and is also what the local body shop is apparently using ok the underside of my e46 which is having a underbody restoration.

Dinatrol is the other major name in underbody and cavity wax sealant type products.

Raptor is just a 2k stonechip

[dhutch]

Ofcause, it's just a brand name, like everything else discussed here. Some brands are better products than others.

[Kewy]

alexmonkey said:

Nice wagon!

Bilt Hamber Hydrate 80 rust treatment applied liberally to bare metal or wire-brushed surface rust will kill the rust even in the metal’s “pores”. You can leave that on the car as if it was paint.

Then a layer of zinc primer - again Bilt Hamber’s zinc primer rattle cans is what I use and is very durable.

Next would be a layer of rattle can or brushed-on Hammerite in the colour of your choosing.

Extra points are available for applying a layer of aerosol wax - I can’t remember what I used last but it came in litre rattle cans and made a bloody mess of everything in the vicinity.

Good luck!

A

Thanks for the reply. I've used Hydrate 80 before and was intending on using it again this time. However it was a while ago and I seem to remember it being quite runny? Was fine before but how will it stick to the underside do you think?

Zinc primer as also been on my radar from all my reading, but some sources seem to suggest it's benefits are not much good if applied over cured Hydrate or any other rust converter that creates a coating. Ideally I would 2K Epoxy but I just don't have the setup for it unfortunately.

Could I maybe do the zinc primer and then Gravitex (stone chip) straight over the top of that? As opposed to using a traditional chassis paint that's more likely to chip?

Will definitely be cavity waxing and going over the whole lot with some Dynax UC at the end of the process for good measure!

Belle427 said:

I tried Hydrate 80 and wasnt impressed with it tbh.
Jenolite do a spray converter which is supposed to be quite good and easy to apply.
Have a look at this video, he does a similar job, the raptor coat is probably a bit overkill but you can get a product called body schutz or underbody seal which is a bit more durable and does a similar job. It can also be easily applied using the compressor and a schutz gun.
Id avoid Hammerite too, its not the product it used to be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukOhMciAA7o

Can't thank you enough for sharing this vid, really put things into perspective for me (that Passat was prettying hanging!), and giving me a new lease of enthusiasm to continue attacking and moderate amount of surface rust I have found.

I was looking at Upol Rapotor, but for a quarter of the price you can pick up their original product Gravitex and they do it in a grey which is handy, so I'm tempted to go with that. Although all the talk of underseal holding water in is starting to worry me a little! Wondering if just paint and wax sealant is the way to go

[Belle427]

Cant see a good underseal holding water if its cured properly, wax type coating afterwards is belt and braces but this needs to be re applied every few years to remain effective.

[VeeReihenmotor6]

Nice job. A few approaches you can take:

1. Full strip down, bare metal rusty areas, zinc primer, stonechip (like gravitex) and paint.

2. Like 1 but just do in localised areas to save strip down of chassis.

3. Easy optoin and top off every year - Lanoguard.

I'd do option 2 with option 3 on the subframes.

[V8covin]

Underseal goes brittle in time and then cracks and moisture gets in and starts the rusting process.
It can then fester away for years behind the underseal before it becomes noticeable

[VeeReihenmotor6]

oh and get a cavity wax inside the box sections. All cars rot from within.

[VeeReihenmotor6]

Kewy said:

I was looking at Upol Rapotor, but for a quarter of the price you can pick up their original product Gravitex and they do it in a grey which is handy, so I'm tempted to go with that. Although all the talk of underseal holding water in is starting to worry me a little! Wondering if just paint and wax sealant is the way to go

I have used Gravitex, it's pretty easy to apply over the top of prepared metal. Can paint it or leave as is. I have heard Rapotor, although has been used underbody, is not that great as too rigid and prone to cracking. It's a bed liner product really.

Another product to look at is Dinitrols rubberised coating, an alternative to Gravitex which is also permenant (not their wax like 4941 product which is semi permenant).

[dhutch]

V8covin said:

Underseal goes brittle in time and then cracks and moisture gets in and starts the rusting process.
It can then fester away for years behind the underseal before it becomes noticeable

Surely the same would go for any paint coating, as it starts to fail, moisture can get behind it.

Stone chips aside, as long as the coating is at least as flexible as the substrate, it wont crack. The underside of the van shouldnt be flexing that much.

[dhutch]

Kewy said:

Belle427 said:

I tried Hydrate 80 and wasnt impressed with it tbh.
Jenolite do a spray converter which is supposed to be quite good and easy to apply.
Have a look at this video, he does a similar job, the raptor coat is probably a bit overkill but you can get a product called body schutz or underbody seal which is a bit more durable and does a similar job. It can also be easily applied using the compressor and a schutz gun.
Id avoid Hammerite too, its not the product it used to be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukOhMciAA7o

Can't thank you enough for sharing this vid, really put things into perspective for me (that Passat was prettying hanging!), and giving me a new lease of enthusiasm to continue attacking and moderate amount of surface rust I have found.

I was looking at Upol Raptor, but for a quarter of the price you can pick up their original product Gravitex and they do it in a grey which is handy, so I'm tempted to go with that....

Looks good. I enjoyed that video, thanks for sharing.

The underside of my 199k miles 2001 BMW E46 is very similar condition to that Passat rust wise, including between pretty bloody good anywhere other than where the wheel and road spray has got it. The vertical faces inside the arches where better, but the lower areas around the back of the sills and the quarter panel where it meets the top front corner of the rear bumper where worse.

Plus the cracks in the boot floor where the subframe mounts (common, but also sigh...) and it needing two new sills because under the plastic covers its verging in alarming how much hole their was. The rear jacking point where that soft the guy put a gearbox stand under one of the subframe mount points just in case! Why do we do this to ourselves, should have sold it when it looked good and drove well 18months ago.

I will ask if there is a rust converter going on before the raptor and seem sealer as I think that's a good call. As we will have the Imola red out anyway for a few visible areas and the new front wings, we're going to blow some red over the raptor too.

But such a nice car to drive!!

[V8covin]

dhutch said:

Looks good. I enjoyed that video, thanks for sharing.

The underside of my 199k miles 2001 BMW E46 is very similar condition to that Passat rust wise, including between pretty bloody good anywhere other than where the wheel and road spray has got it. The vertical faces inside the arches where better, but the lower areas around the back of the sills and the quarter panel where it meets the top front corner of the rear bumper where worse.

Plus the cracks in the boot floor where the subframe mounts (common, but also sigh...) and it needing two new sills because under the plastic covers its verging in alarming how much hole their was. The rear jacking point where that soft the guy put a gearbox stand under one of the subframe mount points just in case! Why do we do this to ourselves, should have sold it when it looked good and drove well 18months ago.

I will ask if there is a rust converter going on before the raptor and seem sealer as I think that's a good call. As we will have the Imola red out anyway for a few visible areas and the new front wings, we're going to blow some red over the raptor too.

But such a nice car to drive!!

Raptor is best tinted to close to body colour rather than spray body colour over the top as you'll need to sand it first