Experience of All Season Tyres?
Discussion
Snowing quite heavy outside here in Saddleworth. I have an Mazda CX-60 PHEV AWD. It has Pirelli Scorpion All Season tyres on it, an off road drive mode and hill descent control.
I know Winter tyres will be better in snowy/icy conditions but wonder if anyone has experience of running all seasons and then changing them to Winters? Is it worth the hassle to change to Winters for Winter?
I know Winter tyres will be better in snowy/icy conditions but wonder if anyone has experience of running all seasons and then changing them to Winters? Is it worth the hassle to change to Winters for Winter?
Not worth bothering to swap. They aren’t as good as winters in snow but it’s a small margin.
This is my Lexus on Goodyear vector 4 seasons last winter. It was an unpaved green lane that I was on and the car was fine.
Tomorrow I’ll be taking my BMW on cross climates and I doubt I’ll have any problems.
This is my Lexus on Goodyear vector 4 seasons last winter. It was an unpaved green lane that I was on and the car was fine.
Tomorrow I’ll be taking my BMW on cross climates and I doubt I’ll have any problems.
Drove my 2019 MX5 up 20% hills in fresh and compacted snow on Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons a few years ago. They test as marginally worse than winters but the same sort of margins by which a Kumho lags a Michelin in wet braking.
They're really very impressive and would be by year round fit on anything cooking in the UK.
They're really very impressive and would be by year round fit on anything cooking in the UK.
There isn't a hard grey line between all seasons and out and out winters. And I even saw "grades" of winters too when in Scandinavia, as well as grades of snow tyres even before you get to studded tyres.
Some tyres I previously bought as winters are still being sold but labelled as all seasons as the manufacturer has a new winter tyres it wishes to promote. That's the case for Nokian, Yokohama and Vredestein.
In the 1980s we had proper snow here and I drove around on what we'd consider all seasons today without too much trouble in an original mini. In the 1990s I had an AWD Cavalier which was unstoppable on similar tyres when it snowed.
Some tyres I previously bought as winters are still being sold but labelled as all seasons as the manufacturer has a new winter tyres it wishes to promote. That's the case for Nokian, Yokohama and Vredestein.
In the 1980s we had proper snow here and I drove around on what we'd consider all seasons today without too much trouble in an original mini. In the 1990s I had an AWD Cavalier which was unstoppable on similar tyres when it snowed.
From experience, the problem with All Season tyres is that when it gets to winter they are part worn by 10,000 miles of summer driving so are compromised in the very wet / snow.
My preference is to run summer tyres on 18" rims and then winter tyres on 16" rims, the benefit being that you keep a good tread depth on the winters. Plus, on a 16" rim the winter tyres are suprisingly cheap.
My preference is to run summer tyres on 18" rims and then winter tyres on 16" rims, the benefit being that you keep a good tread depth on the winters. Plus, on a 16" rim the winter tyres are suprisingly cheap.
Edited by Matt_T on Monday 18th November 23:12
Matt_T said:
From experience, the problem with All Season tyres is that when it gets to winter they are part worn by 10,000 miles of summer driving so are compromised in the very wet / snow.
My preference is to run summer tyres on 18" rims and then winter tyres on 16" rims, the benefit being that you keep a good tread depth on the winters. Plus, on a 16" rim the winter tyres are suprisingly cheap.
16" winter or summer tyres are a decent sweet spot in price and comfort. I had a set of winters on 16" wheels on my Clubman and come the spring I didn't want to take them off because of the comfort compared to 18", so I left them on. My preference is to run summer tyres on 18" rims and then winter tyres on 16" rims, the benefit being that you keep a good tread depth on the winters. Plus, on a 16" rim the winter tyres are suprisingly cheap.
Edited by Matt_T on Monday 18th November 23:12
But back to the question. They provide enough traction to get you going in snow and to stop with reasonable confidence, compared to the bum squeakiness with summer tyres. Both my Dads and one of my cars is equipped with them - the Passat gets full winters.
Edited by vikingaero on Tuesday 19th November 07:26
ClaphamGT3 said:
We run our XC90 on Pirelli scorpion all seasons and it is pretty unstoppable in the snow and ice - we regularly take it up into the alps on family ski trips and we've never lost traction or felt the need to put chains on
Until the rear Haldex lets water into the controller and goes phut!I had Pirelli Scorpion on two XC70's previously, not my choice... they came with the car... and I was never that impressed with them in any conditions but they really didn't impress in snow. I replaced them with Vredestein Quatrac and the difference was pretty significant. Not a particularly brilliant tyre and a by todays standards, a very old design so there are far better all season tyres out there.
Winter tyres... I tried a set of Dunlops a couple of years back, I can't remember the exact flavour but whilst they were fairly good in the frost / snow (as you'd hope!) they were definitely lacking in drier conditions or damp / cold conditions again, which is expected but given how varied our weather conditions are from day to day, plus how good a decent all season can be... I just didn't see the point in full winters.
I also never swap summer tyres > winter tyres. I haven't run a car on summer biased tyres for about 8 years now. I'm really not bothered about maximising dry, summer performance as none of the cars are of that nature. I run all seasons continuously as they're also better at coping with some wet grass in mid July or a muddy farm track... and compared to the winter tyres I've tried previously, they seem as capable in proper winter conditions. I've don some silly stuff both in FWD and AWD cars in winter and never been left stuck.
As far as the wear issue goes, that's a bit of a non argument as it'd depend on when you fit tyres and how long they last. My van had four Quatracs Pro fitted in August and is sat on 7mm/9mm from to rear and my sheddy V50 had four Quatrac 6 fitted on Saturday morning. The van was bought with utterly crap Continental tyres hence I immediately replaced them and the V50 had Cross Climates at 3mm/4mm but they were starting to perish and to be honest, I've never rated them that highly.
Headed into winter weather, if I had tyres at say 4mm or less, I'd just stick a couple on... for the want of a couple of hundred quid to know you stand a better chance of getting though the next few months, I think it's a pretty small price to pay?
Winter tyres... I tried a set of Dunlops a couple of years back, I can't remember the exact flavour but whilst they were fairly good in the frost / snow (as you'd hope!) they were definitely lacking in drier conditions or damp / cold conditions again, which is expected but given how varied our weather conditions are from day to day, plus how good a decent all season can be... I just didn't see the point in full winters.
I also never swap summer tyres > winter tyres. I haven't run a car on summer biased tyres for about 8 years now. I'm really not bothered about maximising dry, summer performance as none of the cars are of that nature. I run all seasons continuously as they're also better at coping with some wet grass in mid July or a muddy farm track... and compared to the winter tyres I've tried previously, they seem as capable in proper winter conditions. I've don some silly stuff both in FWD and AWD cars in winter and never been left stuck.
As far as the wear issue goes, that's a bit of a non argument as it'd depend on when you fit tyres and how long they last. My van had four Quatracs Pro fitted in August and is sat on 7mm/9mm from to rear and my sheddy V50 had four Quatrac 6 fitted on Saturday morning. The van was bought with utterly crap Continental tyres hence I immediately replaced them and the V50 had Cross Climates at 3mm/4mm but they were starting to perish and to be honest, I've never rated them that highly.
Headed into winter weather, if I had tyres at say 4mm or less, I'd just stick a couple on... for the want of a couple of hundred quid to know you stand a better chance of getting though the next few months, I think it's a pretty small price to pay?
Edited by Davie on Tuesday 19th November 08:50
Baldchap said:
Just a note for anyone who drives on the continent in winter: France now have winter tyre areas with cameras and they must be winters, not all seasons.
To answer OP, winters and all seasons are head and shoulders above summer tyres when the temperature drops.
As the TyreReviews videos show, some budget winters are worse in winter than premium all-seasons.To answer OP, winters and all seasons are head and shoulders above summer tyres when the temperature drops.
So are they going to give all tyres a 'winter' score and force you to use only those that have passed the grade - or maybe that 3PMSF symbol is just given out chilly-willy-nilly as it seems the bar is set very low going by the performance of some of the so-called full winter 'ditchfinder' tyres I've seen?
mmm-five said:
As the TyreReviews videos show, some budget winters are worse in winter than premium all-seasons.
So are they going to give all tyres a 'winter' score and force you to use only those that have passed the grade - or maybe that 3PMSF symbol is just given out chilly-willy-nilly as it seems the bar is set very low going by the performance of some of the so-called full winter 'ditchfinder' tyres I've seen?
France’s Mountain Law: rules and regulationsSo are they going to give all tyres a 'winter' score and force you to use only those that have passed the grade - or maybe that 3PMSF symbol is just given out chilly-willy-nilly as it seems the bar is set very low going by the performance of some of the so-called full winter 'ditchfinder' tyres I've seen?
The rules require all vehicles to have winter or 4-season tyres and/or to have non-slip snow chains or ‘socks’ mounted on at least two tyres (or at minimum present in the vehicle if conditions don’t require them) when driving in the above-mentioned departements during the winter season.
Cars with studded tyres do not need winter tyres.
Buses, Heavy Goods Vehicles without trailers and coaches must have chains or winter tyres and are subject to more stringent measures. For example, HGVs having a trailer must have snow chains on a minimum of two driving wheels, even if they have winter tyres.
What exactly is a ‘winter’ tyre?
Since Nov 1st, 2024, compliant winter tyres (pneus neige or pneus hiver in French) must be rated ‘3PMSF’, which means 3 Peak Mountain Snowflake or Alpin. Any all-season tyres must have all the markings too.
Matt_T said:
From experience, the problem with All Season tyres is that when it gets to winter they are part worn by 10,000 miles of summer driving so are compromised in the very wet / snow.
Wow, what was that on?I get 40k miles out of a set of Pirelli Scorpion all seasons fitted on my BMW X5.
I used to swap to winters. Did for a few years away back in around 2002 I started. Then discovered Vredestein Quatracs and have fitted all seasons ever since (not all Quatracs). The Quatracs performed much better that some full on winters. Avon Ice Touring being one of the worst.
For the UK climate they are ideal.
For the UK climate they are ideal.
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