Helper spring perch issues

[Clarkgti]

Anyone come across an issue like this and/or know a solution? The helper spring perch is wedged against the lower spring perch hence why the helper spring is only half compressed. Its a 2 inch 4 lb spring, got a 4 inch one in the post to try but not convinced its going to take up enough room to move the helper platform off of the lower spring platform.

FYI this is a custom coilover setup so no manufacturer to support here either, just myself to blame!

[E-bmw]

Try putting the helper at the top.

[Clarkgti]

Yeah going to try that if the 4 inch spring still does not cut it but just going on vague pictures I have of the top hat before it went on the car it's got just as big of an inside lip that's going to cause the same problem.

[stevieturbo]

With "helper spring" that thin....nothing else can happen.

As such is it even needed vs just screwing the platform up a bit ? Or just a solid spacer, which it pretty much is already

[Clarkgti]

stevieturbo said:

With "helper spring" that thin....nothing else can happen.

As such is it even needed vs just screwing the platform up a bit ? Or just a solid spacer, which it pretty much is already

Ride height is far too high if I screw it up so it's not loose. It's about 2 inches of a gap from the top of the spring at ideal height so naturally I thought... a 2 inch helper but that's not worked out obviously... I've been looking for solid spacers to sit on the lower spring perch but not found anything yet.

[stevieturbo]

Clarkgti said:

Ride height is far too high if I screw it up so it's not loose. It's about 2 inches of a gap from the top of the spring at ideal height so naturally I thought... a 2 inch helper but that's not worked out obviously... I've been looking for solid spacers to sit on the lower spring perch but not found anything yet.

just make some.

Although what you have at the minute, is effectively that spacer anyway

And as it is currently all solid.....it would be zero different than raising the lower platform to the same position anyway and removing the helper spring

[Clarkgti]

Clarkgti said:

stevieturbo said:

With "helper spring" that thin....nothing else can happen.

As such is it even needed vs just screwing the platform up a bit ? Or just a solid spacer, which it pretty much is already

Ride height is far too high if I screw it up so it's not loose. It's about 2 inches of a gap from the top of the spring at ideal height so naturally I thought... a 2 inch helper but that's not worked out obviously... I've been looking for solid spacers to sit on the lower spring perch but not found anything yet.

My concern was the main spring taking the weight of that corner of the car sitting on that helper platform which is then sitting on the lower spring platform, all that pressure on basically just 1mm of the alloy lip seemed like it was destined for catastrophic failure. If I'm totally wrong in thinking that is a massive vulnerability then I'm all ears as makes my life nice and easy but in my head seemed like a lot to ask for from 1mm of aluminium.

[PhillipM]

Your only sensible option with that is to machine the perch down, I don't think 4" helpers are going to help you out at all because it looks like you can't wind the perch down any more anyway, unless you can use shorter main springs - or ditch the top perch and just use two lock rings.
Looks like the whole spring/damper system is running far lower than intended, I can't imagine you have much bump travel left on the damper either?

Edited by PhillipM on Thursday 30th March 03:48

[fredd1e]

I think your problems are more than just the helper spring. it might be that the whole suspension setup is wrong needs altering, possibly shocks are too long so trying to correct with min spring platform/spring length? which is probably not a good approach, lots of things could happen with your current setup and will need working through to see what is happening. Stuff that could happen is your springs/spring platforms all bind up before the damper bump rubbers during compression which will cause large shock loads through all those bits and if the alloy spring platforms /spacers are in solid contact they could be destroyed by the load, it will also likely introduce odd handling characteristics when the shock/spring become suddenly solid .

[witko999]

You'd probably be better off buying a different lower spring platform. You can get some for 2.25" Bilsteins which have a long spigot. You could then machine out the centre of your helper spring collar so that it slides up and down the spigot rather than over the threads.

[GreenV8S]

If the static compression on the spring is less than the droop travel on the suspension then replacing spring seats and so on won't help.

If the damper the correct length for the range of travel that you want? How much droop travel is there? How much static compression is there on the main spring?

[stevieturbo]

Clarkgti said:

My concern was the main spring taking the weight of that corner of the car sitting on that helper platform which is then sitting on the lower spring platform, all that pressure on basically just 1mm of the alloy lip seemed like it was destined for catastrophic failure. If I'm totally wrong in thinking that is a massive vulnerability then I'm all ears as makes my life nice and easy but in my head seemed like a lot to ask for from 1mm of aluminium.

With the car jacked up as shown, is the spring loose ?

If not....why is there even a helper/spacer in there ?

You could add a thicker flat helper spring, and this may compress down so the load is taken by the spring on the outer portions of the platform ( not that it matters that much )....but it will add more height, and most of the time it will just be like a solid spacer anyway.
So if the spring is not loose at the minute, it's pointless.
Just remove the helper and lift the platform.

[Clarkgti]

I just installed the spring perch collar upside down under neath the lock collar which looks like it accomplishes the issue.

Believe it or not that is not jacked up!

My next concern is as mentioned, the bump travel. Some rough fag packet maths points at too little bump travel at ride height, but raising it will mean way too high ride height. On 7 inch springs right now, but not sure how to figure out what size I need to get for the right amount of travel and ride height or am I just asking for too much... at what point are the springs too short etc.

[GreenV8S]

Clarkgti said:

at what point are the springs too short etc.

The springs are too short when you want to increase the car's ride height and have run out of travel on the spring seat adjuster.

It isn't clear you know what you trying to do here.

You need to know much travel you want in bump and droop from your intended ride height. Your damper needs to support that range of movement. You need bump and droop stops in the right position. The droop stop might be the damper. You need to know what spring rate you want, and choose a spring length that is somewhere within the range of spring seat travel available to you when the ride height is correct and the spring is loaded.

None of this will fix the problem of the spring becoming unloaded if your suspension droop travel is more than the static deflection of the spring.

[stevieturbo]

Clarkgti said:

I just installed the spring perch collar upside down under neath the lock collar which looks like it accomplishes the issue.

Believe it or not that is not jacked up!

My next concern is as mentioned, the bump travel. Some rough fag packet maths points at too little bump travel at ride height, but raising it will mean way too high ride height. On 7 inch springs right now, but not sure how to figure out what size I need to get for the right amount of travel and ride height or am I just asking for too much... at what point are the springs too short etc.

So you already have this suspension, installed etc etc....

Would you not have done some of this planning before buying and fitting anything ?

[PhillipM]

Clarkgti said:

I just installed the spring perch collar upside down under neath the lock collar which looks like it accomplishes the issue.

Believe it or not that is not jacked up!

My next concern is as mentioned, the bump travel. Some rough fag packet maths points at too little bump travel at ride height, but raising it will mean way too high ride height. On 7 inch springs right now, but not sure how to figure out what size I need to get for the right amount of travel and ride height or am I just asking for too much... at what point are the springs too short etc.

That sounds like your dampers are too long for the ride height you're trying to accomplish with them.