'Staggered' Wheels/Tyres

[Evercross]

In a nutshell, what are the handling/grip/balance benefits and drawback of a staggered wheel and tyre setup? The reason I am asking is that a staggered set-up was a factory option on the Jaguar 3.0d S that I have, and I have an opportunity to switch out my currently 'square' setup.

Two of my wheels are looking a bit ratty and in need of a refurb plus I could be doing with changing the rear tyres so I figured rather than spend the money on the refurb I could put it towards getting a pair of the wider (9.5J rather than 8.5J) rear wheels and 285/30/20 tyres rather than the 255/35/20 currently there.

The 3.0d S is quite a torquey beast so I am hoping the wider setup would help keep the rear in check when driving 'spiritedly'...

[ScoobyChris]

My assumption is that it's to add more grip to the driven wheels to aid traction. My summers are staggered and my winters are square. Not sure I could notice any real-world difference between the setups!

Chris

[Pica-Pica]

A couple of additional benefits with a staggered set up:
1) more even wear rates between front and rear.
2) closer pressures on the rears between single person and fully loaded, so no need to worry too much when going from 1 to 4 people. (I tend to have the pressures more toward fully laden anyway)

Here is my 335d tyre and pressure label. Look at 18” sizes, as an example (which is what I have)

[brillomaster]

Im not sure there are many benefits, other than looking more aggressive. A staggered setup encourages understeer, hence why most trackrats run square setups on thing like m3s.

I think youd have better rear traction with a better tyre compound, rather than a wider tyre.

[d_a_n1979]

I've gone from staggered to a straight set of alloys on my current F31 touring

Did exactly the same on my previous Japanese import E39 touring a few years back...

Overall handling was improved; turn in feel was much better

I've gone from 225/45/18s to 235/45/18s on my F31 for a straighter sidewall & better rim protection; I've always felt that a 225 tyre on an 18" alloys is a bit stretched; the 235 sits much better

18" staggered Style 400s with winter tyres:



18" (18x8) Style 405Ms with 235/45/18s all round:

[Pica-Pica]

d_a_n1979 said:

I've gone from staggered to a straight set of alloys on my current F31 touring

Did exactly the same on my previous Japanese import E39 touring a few years back...

Overall handling was improved; turn in feel was much better

I've gone from 225/45/18s to 235/45/18s on my F31 for a straighter sidewall & better rim protection; I've always felt that a 225 tyre on an 18" alloys is a bit stretched; the 235 sits much better]

I’ve thought of going to that size all-round (despite my prior comments).
I have an F30 335d.

What pressures are you running?
Do you have any tyre contact issues?
Is there more frequent dropping from 8th to 7th on slight inclines? (Assuming a ZF8 auto)
Do you move the tyres front to rear, to even out wear?

[Heathwood]

I don’t think it so much about traction but more about the balance the manufacturer is looking to create. As has been said, a staggered set up is more likely to lead to a slightly understeer led feel, whereas square eliminates some of this leaving things a little more neutral.

[IanH755]

I took my RWD Skyline R34GTT on the track with its original 225/XX/17 alloys (can't for the life of me remember the profile size) on all 4 corners and found it had a very neutral feel, neither over nor understeering on long sweeping corners at 100mph+.

I then swapped the tyres to 235/XX/17 Front and 265/XX/17 Rear with lower profiles on the rear to kept the same rolling radius between them and the fronts and again took it out of the same track and in the same 100mph+ long sweeping corner and found that, whilst the speed I could corner was increased, the feel became more noticeably "understeery" with the extra grip at the rears able to push the less grippy fronts past their traction point.

However the way that manifested itself felt very similar to the 911's I've been a passenger in, where the fronts when right at the limit had a "dutch roll" feel (aviation term) which feels like a constant 0.5-1Hz cyclical movement of the front end trying to push wide then returning to neutral and then repeating.

To passengers this motion made the car "feel" unstable but in reality for the driver it was actually just a good indication of where the edge of grip really was, whereas the 225's would break away into a 4 wheel slide without a lot of warning other than tyre squeal.

Anyway, thats my experience of non-staggered to staggered on the same car on the same track a few weeks apart.

[457892345]

When I was looking at changing my wheels I came to the conclusion...

1. Buy the smallest wheel rim size that still fits the brakes etc. In my case I changed from 18 inch oem to 17 inch flowformed wheels and saved a lot of weight, you might be able to go from 20 to 18 etc.

2. Buy the widest square setup ultra high perf summer tyre setup you can, in my case 225/40/18 + 245/35/18 stock became 245/45/17 Square. (goodyer asm 6 tyres). I value the extra suspension cushion this offers over 18 inch setup and lighter weight for UK roads but the 18 inch tyres go to 265 square. Smaller rim size tyres are cheaper too.

3. Look at tyre reviews website for which tyres best in the rim size of your choosing and buy lightweight rims with right offset etc and then you are set.

[stevieturbo]

Evercross said:

In a nutshell, what are the handling/grip/balance benefits and drawback of a staggered wheel and tyre setup? The reason I am asking is that a staggered set-up was a factory option on the Jaguar 3.0d S that I have, and I have an opportunity to switch out my currently 'square' setup.

Two of my wheels are looking a bit ratty and in need of a refurb plus I could be doing with changing the rear tyres so I figured rather than spend the money on the refurb I could put it towards getting a pair of the wider (9.5J rather than 8.5J) rear wheels and 285/30/20 tyres rather than the 255/35/20 currently there.

The 3.0d S is quite a torquey beast so I am hoping the wider setup would help keep the rear in check when driving 'spiritedly'...

Whatever changes you make, you will need to ensure the relative rolling circumferences of the system are maintained.

[MustangGT]

d_a_n1979 said:

I've always felt that a 225 tyre on an 18" alloys is a bit stretched; the 235 sits much better

Stretch depends on the width of the rim, not the diameter, plus the profile. How wide were the wheels and what was the profile?

[Kawasicki]

Few different reasons for staggered set-up, one that hasn’t been mentioned so far is it improves steering/handling in typical customer usage, there is less delayed steering response, the car generally stays more in phase with the steering inputs, so it is more precise to drive.

[Pepperpots]

MustangGT said:

d_a_n1979 said:

I've always felt that a 225 tyre on an 18" alloys is a bit stretched; the 235 sits much better

Stretch depends on the width of the rim, not the diameter, plus the profile. How wide were the wheels and what was the profile?

This^