Bouncy 320hp+ Fiesta - fix with gravel spec coilovers?

[fiesta_STage3]

Hello!

Can anyone help me with Fiesta suspension/ set up for the terrible “roads” of East Anglian fenland? I say roads, it’s more like tarmac’d fields. I’m wondering if a gravel spec rally suspension/ set up could help (YSR? reiger?) and if there’s anyone in the east/south east that can help install and set up?

I have a Fiesta ST180 that i’m making into a “sleeper”. It’s running an X48R turbo and various bits so it’s currently 320hp+.

It’s currently on the 17” wheels plus 215/40/17 Avon ZV7 but I’m intending to move it onto 6.5x16 steel wheels (to look like the hubcaps fell off) plus 205/45 Michelin PS3s (or Yoko AD08RS)

On fenland roads and even sections of the A14 it’s incredibly bouncy as it is. I’m guessing that track-focused lowering coilovers isn’t going to help? I’m open to ideas of how to turn it into something that hovers over the fenland wobbles.

Thanks in advance

[GreenV8S]

If it's bouncy, you don't have enough damping.

I suggest you sort out how you want it to handle/ride and what spring and roll stiffnesses you want to achieve that, then spec the dampers to suit the spring rates, geometry and range of motion you want.

Budget dampers in my experience tend to be 'one size fits all' with a huge range of damper rate adjustment and usually only very coarse adjustment, but when you spend more you will want to get the damper valving in the right ballpark so that the range of adjustment covers the range of damping you need.

[fiesta_STage3]

GreenV8S said:

Useful stuff

Thanks that sounds great. Now, how do I go about doing that? Do you know of anyone who can advise me? I’m a computer nerd who’s useless with oily things (but trying to learn).

So far the ideas I have are:
I see that KW make an ST180-specific ‘V3 inox’ coilover that’s 3-way adjustable. Does installing something like that plus then playing around with the settings get me there? (Yellow Speed Racing also do a 3-way adjustable Fiesta mk7.5-specific coilover system)

Or do I need to call up m-sport and ask them if there’s a rally/rally cross team that can help… or….?

Ideas and suggestions greatfully received

[stevieturbo]

bumpy and bad roads....probably standard suspension will be far better than any stupid coilovers

Although perhaps some proper long travel rally aimed setup might not be a bad shout. Which let's face it, almost no typical road coilovers will be anything like.

But would you want to pay 2-3k a corner for a real setup ?

[fiesta_STage3]

stevieturbo said:

But would you want to pay 2-3k a corner for a real setup ?

£2-3k per corner? No, probably not. £3-4K for some 3-way gravel spec YSRs plus fitting/advice money? Sure

I’m hoping the move to 45 or even 50 profile tyres might help a little….

[stevieturbo]

But yes, speak to someone who offers proper suspension, and with rally involvement would be a sensible idea if the conditions and needs are that extreme

But how fast, how often are you actually on such roads ( legally ) ?

[fiesta_STage3]

Ok - if anyone reads this thread and can help or knows someone who can then please let me know

stevieturbo said:

But how fast, how often are you actually on such roads ( legally ) ?

I have no interest in driving like a maniac. But if you’re not familiar with the type of roads, you’d be amazed at how bad they are - and the car is unsettled and non-confidence inspiring at 50+ mph. I was given a passenger ride in a 991.2 GT3 over similar roads and my passenger experience was that the 10x price Porsche wasn’t outrageously quicker at legal speeds… …but wow! the suspension glided (glid?) the car over the bumps and camber changes…. That made me think something could be done.

[Novexx]

Didn't think the Fester ST was that bad on the suspension front, even on poor roads.

If I felt it was that bad (again, even on poor roads) & if you haven't already, I would be getting a full alignment before shelling out on suspension.

[fiesta_STage3]

Novexx said:

I would be getting a full alignment before shelling out on suspension.

Ok, I’ll do that. Part of the problem is I’ve got nothing to compare it to so I’m not sure what to expect. Seems worthwhile as a (relatively) cheap check.

[stevieturbo]

fiesta_STage3 said:

I have no interest in driving like a maniac. But if you’re not familiar with the type of roads, you’d be amazed at how bad they are - and the car is unsettled and non-confidence inspiring at 50+ mph. I was given a passenger ride in a 991.2 GT3 over similar roads and my passenger experience was that the 10x price Porsche wasn’t outrageously quicker at legal speeds… …but wow! the suspension glided (glid?) the car over the bumps and camber changes…. That made me think something could be done.

As said...standard suspension would probably be an upgrade vs cheap coilovers.

Or buy a Porsche.

Maybe contact somewhere like Ohlins

[nsa]

I think the OP is more interested in ride comfort than handling. I am in a similar position with a Toyota 4Runner. On anything other than highway tarmac it jolts around and is very uncomfortable. I had a Touareg for a month and the difference was night and day.

I've read bad things about Spax, but good things about Gaz adjustable coilovers. They almost certainly can make something up for you. From the research I've done, if you can find progressive rate springs like on Ohlins Road & Track suspension that should also help.

[drmotorsport]

Yer basic cheap coilover kit is all about looks rather than actual handling/damping ability as they are a generic product some guestimated spring rates and with just the appropriate hub/top mount fittings to suite the car it being slapped onto. You will be better off with a genuine OEM spring and damper arrangement as at least Ford spends millions on developing the setup for the car.

If you think you can do better than Ford's engineers for road use, then your next best best option is at least some mild lowering springs at a similar spring rate to the OEM. Next best option is some proper quality coilovers with 2/3 way damping adjustment, alignment, cornerweighting, and a shed load of testing to get the dampers in the sweet spot.

[Tony1963]

drmotorsport said:

Yer basic cheap coilover kit is all about looks rather than actual handling/damping ability as they are a generic product some guestimated spring rates and with just the appropriate hub/top mount fittings to suite the car it being slapped onto. You will be better off with a genuine OEM spring and damper arrangement as at least Ford spends millions on developing the setup for the car.

If you think you can do better than Ford's engineers for road use, then your next best best option is at least some mild lowering springs at a similar spring rate to the OEM. Next best option is some proper quality coilovers with 2/3 way damping adjustment, alignment, cornerweighting, and a shed load of testing to get the dampers in the sweet spot.

The very last thing the OP needs is to lower the car. His requirements are dictated by bad roads, so he needs good suspension travel with appropriate damping.

A Fiesta is a short wheelbase car, so it’s never going to have the comfort of an S Class, but as standard it should be better that the OP is experiencing.

[nsa]

How much difference does damping make to ride quality compared to softer springs? I read somewhere that tyres with softer sidewalls also helped. I changed from M/T to highway tyres though and it made no difference at all.

[SAS Tom]

I think a decent set of coilovers will do what you need. I’ve recently been in a car with KW V3’s and with a bit of adjustment they ride really well. They are stiffer than any standard suspension but the damping is great, even over the roughest of surfaces the car doesn’t jiggle you about or become tiring. Some companies offer different spring/damping rates so a chat with them would get what you want.

Proper rally suspension would cost a fair bit and I’d suspect you’d probably need to buy more than just shocks for it all to fit together and retain the correct geometry.

For those talking about a full alignment, you can only adjust front toe so it won’t make that much difference unless it’s way out at the moment.

[fiesta_STage3]

Thanks folks, I appreciate the different views. Like I say, I’m a computer nerd so I don’t know st from piss about this stuff (yet).

I think part of the problem is that I don’t know what “good” looks (feels) like. However I see videos of wrc cars diving through forests or Dakar trucks stable over dunes and I get the impression somethings do-able where the suspension is less “stiff”, the wheels get fired down into the ruts, allowing the body to remain more stable.

Perhaps I need to take a video of the type of roads. I’m not sure people would believe how bad they are. Part of me can’t imagine that zooming over such roads was the biggest optimise factor in the OEM calibration decision

Anyway this is currently irrelevant as she started showing a P2541 error code yesterday after a 1hr gentle commute (low pressure fuel pressure sensor low) so she needs a cuddle and a lemsip

[Dave Brand]

fiesta_STage3 said:

Perhaps I need to take a video of the type of roads. I’m not sure people would believe how bad they are.

I know those roads. . . they have to be seen to be believed!

[Novexx]

SAS Tom said:

For those talking about a full alignment, you can only adjust front toe so it won’t make that much difference unless it’s way out at the moment.

That's a fact, but any misalignment beyond the scope of standard adjustment would also be indicated.

[stevieturbo]

fiesta_STage3 said:

Thanks folks, I appreciate the different views. Like I say, I’m a computer nerd so I don’t know st from piss about this stuff (yet).

I think part of the problem is that I don’t know what “good” looks (feels) like. However I see videos of wrc cars diving through forests or Dakar trucks stable over dunes and I get the impression somethings do-able where the suspension is less “stiff”, the wheels get fired down into the ruts, allowing the body to remain more stable.

Perhaps I need to take a video of the type of roads. I’m not sure people would believe how bad they are. Part of me can’t imagine that zooming over such roads was the biggest optimise factor in the OEM calibration decision

Anyway this is currently irrelevant as she started showing a P2541 error code yesterday after a 1hr gentle commute (low pressure fuel pressure sensor low) so she needs a cuddle and a lemsip

Part of the problem with watching WRC etc....is one corner of each cars suspension, likely costs more than your entire vehicle. So trying to use that as a baseline.....is pushing things.

But really...go back to full OEM standard first and try that

[fiesta_STage3]

stevieturbo said:

Part of the problem with watching WRC etc....is one corner of each cars suspension, likely costs more than your entire vehicle. So trying to use that as a baseline.....is pushing things.

If I give you my wife’s mailing address would you tell her that, and then suggest a fiesta R5 would be a “comparatively affordable option”?

What you say is fair comment, noted