Tyre Dilemma

[Gad-Westy]

We have an E61 5 series BMW.

We live on an un-gritted single track steep hill on the edge of the Pennines so get a fair bit of winter and need to be able to get kids to school etc.

Car currently uses a set of 17" 245 Bridgestone summer Tyres and in winter we use a set of 16" 225 Good year winters. These get us about okay in all but the very worst of conditions.

Problem is that the summer tyres are worn out. And the winter tyres are nearly 10 years old and down to about 4mm and one has a screw almost into the side wall. So realistically both sets need replacing.

To replace all 8x tyres with good quality summer and winter options, will be around £1100-1200. That's probably plan A.

But I'm toying with Plan B where we could just go for a set of Michelin Cross Climates on the 17's. My thought here is that the car has managed okay so far in deepish snow on old, part worn, average quality winter tyres so maybe a brand new set of CC's will work equally well. They come in at around £650 ish for a set but I could sell my winter wheels and tyres and get a little of that back and create a nice chunk of garage space in the process.

Will I regret it?

[V8mate]

Nope - I've been using CCs since they launched and now fit them to all of my/my family's cars. They've been great all year round, including through last winter's multiple snow periods.

[LunarOne]

I'd avoid so-called all season tyres like the plague. Nothing comes close to a proper winter tyre, apart from another proper winter tyre. And all-season tyres aren't that great in summer. If you like to drive dynamically, you'll find that your cornering and braking performance will be significantly reduced compared with summer tyres. If you're one of the 40-everywhere brigade, you probably won't notice the difference.

[Flibble]

If you want to split cost you could always get the winters now and then get summers in the spring. I ran winters all year this year since I'm not doing many miles now and they were fine (albeit not as good as a summer).

[Gad-Westy]

V8mate said:

Nope - I've been using CCs since they launched and now fit them to all of my/my family's cars. They've been great all year round, including through last winter's multiple snow periods.

Good to hear. Can I ask what cars and conditions you've used them in? Obviously the BMW is off to a bad start being RWD. On summer tyres, snow driving is all but impossible. On winters it will deal okay with fresh snow up to about 6" on moderate inclines. After that ground clearance is starting to become a bigger issue than the tyres.

LunarOne said:

I'd avoid so-called all season tyres like the plague. Nothing comes close to a proper winter tyre, apart from another proper winter tyre. And all-season tyres aren't that great in summer. If you like to drive dynamically, you'll find that your cornering and braking performance will be significantly reduced compared with summer tyres. If you're one of the 40-everywhere brigade, you probably won't notice the difference.

I'm not too familiar with all season tyres generally but my understanding was that cross climates are far more aligned with a winter tread structure than a typical all season tyre hence considering them. Whilst I don't drive at 40mph everywhere, we are talking abut the family and dog wagon here so it doesn't get driven as enthusiastically as our other cars. But safety is always important so I wouldn't want to trade too much performance in any typical conditions.

Flibble said:

If you want to split cost you could always get the winters now and then get summers in the spring. I ran winters all year this year since I'm not doing many miles now and they were fine (albeit not as good as a summer).

Yeah, if I go for plan A, no need to rush the summer tyre option. Though in all honesty, I don't mind spending the money if it's the right thing to do, I just quite like the thought of only having one set of wheels/tyres to manage and getting some garage space back. But I do need to decide this all pretty soon as if I went for cross climates, they'd go on the 17" wheels.

[Smint]

Worth perusing Tyrereviews website, he also has a youtube channel which i'm sure you know about.

He goes quite in depth to analysing the results of all season tyres he personally tested, suggesting Mich's fpr some areas but some other makes might be better for different parts of the country likely subject to colder or more snow predominant weather cycles.

Having used all seasons and separate full winters over many years, i've come to the conclusion that unless you have an already existing second set of wheels and winters tyres (you do but in your case the winter tyres are about done for), that when it comes time to replace the summer set to get decent all seasons instead and flog the other set on.
The only fly in the oitment there being that using a second set of wheels allows your summer set to never see salt, but with BMW's usually having well coated painted wheels instead of the more susceptible to salt damage diamond cut and laquered, this isn't probably a concern for you.

Yes full winters are better, but much depends on the vehicle type and how much snow you expect, our Subaru Outback of the time on full winter set wouldn't get out of our really steep gateway one heavy snowfall day, Prado on proper snowflake stamped all seasons went up like it was a dry slope....it was later in the day pondering why the difference realised hadn't turned Outback's ASR/TC off so maybe hadn't given it a full chance (ground clearance wasn't an issue), but then all i did with the Prado was select D and not one sign of a wheel slip.

Edited by Smint on Wednesday 15th September 10:06

[Scrump]

Here is Jon (a PHer) of Tyre Reviews comparing the new Cross Climate 2 to the Cross Climate +.
The new CC2 seem worth hunting out.

[Pica-Pica]

You could look at the Continental AllSeason Contact.
See

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2020-Tyre-Revi...

[mmm-five]

LunarOne said:

I'd avoid so-called all season tyres like the plague. Nothing comes close to a proper winter tyre, apart from another proper winter tyre. And all-season tyres aren't that great in summer. If you like to drive dynamically, you'll find that your cornering and braking performance will be significantly reduced compared with summer tyres. If you're one of the 40-everywhere brigade, you probably won't notice the difference.

I think your opinion is a bit out of date.

The CrossClimate Plus, and the new Cross-Climate 2 work as well in summer as a lot of premium touring summer tyres.

In winter they're as good as most 'winter' tyres.

https://youtu.be/zNuqGUgbcIk (and this was with the original Cross-Climate...the 2 newer generations have improved in all areas).

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/Is-there-a-tru...

Of course, if you normally run around on the doorhandles in all conditions on Michelin Sport Cup 2s in summer and Nokian Hakkapeliitta in the winter then you'll find the Cross-Climates a little squidgier - but if you're comparing them to a normal summer or winter tyre then they're perfectly adequate.

Otherwise you risk driving on a winter's day where it's dry and 10ºc and your super-duper winter tyres suddenly become worthless and extend your braking distance significantly.

However, saying all this, I actually run 2 sets of wheels on my Z4M. The Michelin Pilot Sport 4 (or Supersport) for summer and Cross-Climate Plus for autumn/winter (and to cover any bad weather during trips to the Ring in November). Even if there's no snow the levels of rain it sees will easily justify the Cross-Climates over the Pilot Sports.

Edited by mmm-five on Wednesday 15th September 12:35

[Gad-Westy]

Thanks for the follow up folks. The cross climates maybe looking a decent option then. Cross climate 2's are only about £3 extra per tyre on my car vs the CC+. So that would be the one to go for.

Pica-Pica said:

You could look at the Continental AllSeason Contact.
See

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2020-Tyre-Revi...

That's the tyre I'd originally wanted but unless I'm looking in the wrong place, I don't think it's available in my sizes. 245/45/17 ideally or could use the winter 16's which would be a 225/55/16.

[V8mate]

Gad-Westy said:

Thanks for the follow up folks. The cross climates maybe looking a decent option then. Cross climate 2's are only about £3 extra per tyre on my car vs the CC+. So that would be the one to go for.

Pica-Pica said:

You could look at the Continental AllSeason Contact.
See

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2020-Tyre-Revi...

That's the tyre I'd originally wanted but unless I'm looking in the wrong place, I don't think it's available in my sizes. 245/45/17 ideally or could use the winter 16's which would be a 225/55/16.

I run CC+ on my 3.6 Skoda Superb estate and traction has been excellent in all conditions. I know it's got (soft) 4WD, but in the snow the sure-footedness under acceleration, braking and turning is very evident.

[alanshuff]

Personally i'd be tempted to go for proper summers and winters. Yes some of the all seasons are close to decent summers and winters, but (thinking about winters in particular) there will be a point the all seasons give up where the winters will get you up that hill or round that bend or come to a stop.

Yes the cost of 2 sets of tyres is more than the cost of 1 set of all seasons, but seeing as they will be used all year you will be replacing them quicker so in the long run you're not saving any money really (indeed you might be costing yourself money).

[roscopervis]

LunarOne said:

I'd avoid so-called all season tyres like the plague. Nothing comes close to a proper winter tyre, apart from another proper winter tyre. And all-season tyres aren't that great in summer. If you like to drive dynamically, you'll find that your cornering and braking performance will be significantly reduced compared with summer tyres. If you're one of the 40-everywhere brigade, you probably won't notice the difference.

Based on what you've said, I'd be almost 100% certain you haven't driven a modern family car shod with modern all season tyres. It's like you're watching a Gen 1 cheap LCD screen and advising to still get a CRT when now it is a dusty opinion.

There are two options with All Seasons - go more summer biased (Cross Climate 2 or Bridgestone A005 - great in wet, average in dry) or go more winter biased (Goodyear Vector OR Continental TS860 which is actually a winter tyre but performs in all seasons like an all season!).

I've run All Seasons exclusively on one of my cars for the last 6 or 7 years and I wouldn't change back now. I don't think it is worth the money or fuss for the potential of using some common sense and All Seasons which have around 90% of the winter performance of winter tyres.

[stevieturbo]

One of many tests, all weather seem a sensible choice for your application

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQAV5dm8e0Q

[mmm-five]

Latest all-season test from Jon.

https://youtu.be/A3WssIxusLU

[Gad-Westy]

mmm-five said:

Latest all-season test from Jon.

https://youtu.be/A3WssIxusLU

Cheers. Pretty comprehensive win there for the CC2. I think my decision is probably made on that. I just haven't got around to booking it in yet. Feel inclined to eek these tyres out until late october then switch over.

[stevieturbo]

Gad-Westy said:

Cheers. Pretty comprehensive win there for the CC2. I think my decision is probably made on that. I just haven't got around to booking it in yet. Feel inclined to eek these tyres out until late october then switch over.

Hard to say on a clear winner really.

Some were clearly better suited and more aimed at less snow...some more aimed at more snow and colder weather.

For less snow, and slightly milder the Vredestein was actually pretty good. Whereas some that did better in the snow, were less good in the cold/wet.

Lots to consider for the environments you will be driving in

[Smint]

Indeed, Vredestein have upped their game again.
Had good results with them in years gone by, kept daughters out of trouble in their younger days.

[littleredrooster]

roscopervis said:

LunarOne said:

I'd avoid so-called all season tyres like the plague. Nothing comes close to a proper winter tyre, apart from another proper winter tyre. And all-season tyres aren't that great in summer. If you like to drive dynamically, you'll find that your cornering and braking performance will be significantly reduced compared with summer tyres. If you're one of the 40-everywhere brigade, you probably won't notice the difference.

Based on what you've said, I'd be almost 100% certain you haven't driven a modern family car shod with modern all season tyres. It's like you're watching a Gen 1 cheap LCD screen and advising to still get a CRT when now it is a dusty opinion.

+1
Compared to the dreadful OE tyres (Toyo) on the daily Toyota, Michelin CC+ are better in the dry, a huge amount better in the wet, and much quieter as well. My only regret is that I didn't chuck the Toyos away sooner! Can't comment on snow, as they're a recent fitment.

[LimSlip]

mmm-five said:

However, saying all this, I actually run 2 sets of wheels on my Z4M. The Michelin Pilot Sport 4 (or Supersport) for summer and Cross-Climate Plus for autumn/winter (and to cover any bad weather during trips to the Ring in November). Even if there's no snow the levels of rain it sees will easily justify the Cross-Climates over the Pilot Sports.

The Pilot Sports are actually better in the wet than the CCs provided the temperature isn't low. Quality summer tyres tend to have very good wet performance.