Turbo or Supercharger?

[spitfiredriver]

I am looking to boost my spitfires performance with some forced induction.
I know an engine swap would be easier and more reliable but I like a challenge!
I was going the root of an Eaton m45 but there seem to be less available and I have been having issues with the pulley arrangement. I do like the Idea of a turbo with a boost controller, at least I could adjust the boost for some weekend fun and keep the boost lower on the commute.
I was hoping to keep to a Carb and have a suck through set up, this will obviously reduce the life of the turbo or supercharger but as it only comes out to play in the sun I doubt I will notice the difference.
I was looking for about 7psi of boost (at least to start with) but I am worried about charge temperature.
What has any one else seen or done?

[Boosted LS1]

5 or 6 psi should be fine and you don't have to have an intercooler for low boost. In fact it'll cause a pressure drop so I'd start at 5 psi and see what or if you need any cooling.

[VitesseEFI]

There have been a few supercharge installs done, of varying quality.

Moss even market a kit offering more or less what you describe. Be warned though, this is really intended for US market cars which had really low compression ratios as standard and so are well suited. UK car market cars have higher compression ratios and will need more care.

You should also beware that the later Spitfire engines, especially the 1500, are not very robust so just bolting such a kit onto a well used 1500 will probably end in tears quite rapidly.

Couple of links:

This is a good one showing how it should be done. He doesn't say so, but the engine was already more than a bit special.

http://www.justdrive.ca/gt6/josh/supercharged.html

Here is another: Note that I'm in no way suggesting you should buy this - I wouldn't! But it does show the quick and dirty approach. You could do a homebrew one MUCH cheaper and get just the same problems!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Triumph-Spitfire-MG...

Dunno about the turbo approach, never seen one.

There are other ways to get a bit more power from your Spit without breaking the bank or the engine.

Hope this is helpful

Nick

[spitfiredriver]

I have found a website with a turbo Spitfire and apart from the problem getting a manifold to fit. It looks simple, but the left hand drive cars do not have the steering columb problem.
http://www.turbo-tr6.info/overview_dk.htm

[Rich7se]

I hope you will be running forged pistons, because the normal aftermarket ones dont like a lot of compression. As metioned above the 1300 engine is the the you want really.

Hope it works out for you.

[//j17]

Rich7se said:

I hope you will be running forged pistons, because the normal aftermarket ones dont like a lot of compression. As metioned above the 1300 engine is the the you want really.

Interesting - what's your source for this information (on the Triumph SC engine), or is it just what some guy in the pub told you? Not read all his books but did Kas Kastner cover forced induction?

Forced induction generally DECREASES the forces on the postons/rods, not increasing it, peak load being tensile at TDC and the charge in the cylinder exerts a compressive load at TDC, partially counteracting the tensile load. More charge == more compressive load == more of the tensile load is counteracted. Peak load on the exhaust stroke is unchanged but the total loads experienced in one cycle (two engine revolutions) is reduced.

No pistons like detonation and fitting forged pistons won't solve that problem - you just end up with holes is really expensive pistons, not relativly cheap ones. To solve detonation you need to fix the ignition advance (or use water injection, etc) so you don't get it.

The only place forged pistons would help is if the pressure is blowing past the piston rings but this suggests nackered piston rings/bores and forged pistons MAY have a superior piston ring layout.

[Rich7se]

My source?, personal experience. Go ahead anyhow, let me know how you get on

[spitfire4v8]

http://www.turbo-tr6.info/overview_dk.htm


am i being silly or is this just going to throw air and FUEL out of the blow off valve ? It's a suck-through system so there's going to be some interesting fire issues in that engine bay ...??

[IanMorewood]

Usual thing to do would be stick a 2.5 straight six with decent carbs in there first. Mind I would want to sort the rear suspension out before I went near making a Spitfire go any faster.

[GreenV8S]

spitfire4v8 said:

http://www.turbo-tr6.info/overview_dk.htm


am i being silly or is this just going to throw air and FUEL out of the blow off valve ? It's a suck-through system so there's going to be some interesting fire issues in that engine bay ...??

You're right, that will be air/fuel mixture coming out. The outlet looks like a hose tail so perhaps the owner is planning to dump that out somewhere safe.

[spitfire4v8]

I can't think of anywhere safe to dump it though .. except between butterflies and compressor inlet but there doesn't seem to be a pipe in there for that to happen.

Edited by spitfire4v8 on Tuesday 26th May 08:34

[Rich7se]

IanMorewood said:

Usual thing to do would be stick a 2.5 straight six with decent carbs in there first. Mind I would want to sort the rear suspension out before I went near making a Spitfire go any faster.

Agreed, how do you all sort this out these days?. Took me near on 10 years to sort it out. worth it when its right though.

[JonyPI]

if you have the later swingspring, just lower it down and drive it properly and you shouldnt have a problem with it, iv done 2 track days giving it some serious beans in my spit6 with some decent rubber on and lowered rear end and it handles very well! there is always rotoflex butthats very heavy or there are various ideas of coilover suspension going round but most of them are rubbish. if you want any advice on anything moderatley modified on trumphs id have a look at
http://www.sideways-technologies.co.uk/forum/Blah....

[Rich7se]

JonyPI said:

if you have the later swingspring, just lower it down and drive it properly and you shouldnt have a problem with it, iv done 2 track days giving it some serious beans in my spit6 with some decent rubber on and lowered rear end and it handles very well! there is always rotoflex butthats very heavy or there are various ideas of coilover suspension going round but most of them are rubbish. if you want any advice on anything moderatley modified on trumphs id have a look at
http://www.sideways-technologies.co.uk/forum/Blah....

Yeah the swingspring is a MUST, I assume by lowering it, you meant de-cambered. I went a stage further by also positioning the rear spring eyes as low as they would go in the upright, IIRC the limiting factor was the brake hoses on a standard setup. Also adding a second radius arm paid dividends at an early stage when using 32r`s (as they were then) or slicks. I had some very amusing footage of the rear wheels doing alsorts of silly things before the extra arm was fitted, also making these adjustable for toe control was handy (gets rid of the silly spacer things). I could never change the design of the basic setup however due to the class regs at the time, but I would have loved to. I never found a rear anti roll bar to be worth it, as the rear needs to move as much as it can to keep the inside tyre on the ground. Anyway that was all in the past, I have moved on somewhat now.

[JonyPI]

Rich7se said:

JonyPI said:

if you have the later swingspring, just lower it down and drive it properly and you shouldnt have a problem with it, iv done 2 track days giving it some serious beans in my spit6 with some decent rubber on and lowered rear end and it handles very well! there is always rotoflex butthats very heavy or there are various ideas of coilover suspension going round but most of them are rubbish. if you want any advice on anything moderatley modified on trumphs id have a look at
http://www.sideways-technologies.co.uk/forum/Blah....

Yeah the swingspring is a MUST, I assume by lowering it, you meant de-cambered. I went a stage further by also positioning the rear spring eyes as low as they would go in the upright, IIRC the limiting factor was the brake hoses on a standard setup. Also adding a second radius arm paid dividends at an early stage when using 32r`s (as they were then) or slicks. I had some very amusing footage of the rear wheels doing alsorts of silly things before the extra arm was fitted, also making these adjustable for toe control was handy (gets rid of the silly spacer things). I could never change the design of the basic setup however due to the class regs at the time, but I would have loved to. I never found a rear anti roll bar to be worth it, as the rear needs to move as much as it can to keep the inside tyre on the ground. Anyway that was all in the past, I have moved on somewhat now.

yeh youv got it pretty much spot on, either using the spring spacer blocks or to redrill the uprights which you can do at least an inch on standard or up to 2" if you use different brake connections (banjos?) rear anti roll bar is totaly stupid as you say also, just a big gimmick and makes the car handle worse! id be interested to know more about the 2nd radius arm though, seen the adjustable ones etc but not a twin set up.

[Rich7se]

Well the fitment of the 2nd arm was the result of some video, which when slowed down showed the wheel trying to climb itself over the centre line. Made the wheel look like it was travelling in an oval rather than a circle. Fitting was an easy job , by getting two more mounting brackets from an old scrap car and welding them onto the rear upright and wheel arch ( which was re-enforced at the back) a standard arm was shortened and made adjustable. Once fitted I was able to take almost a second off my times, bearing in mind that a fast time was only 60 odd seconds anyway ( Loton Hillclimb) , was a huge advantage. To me on my car I found that keeping the rear end fairly soft and the front tight worked very well, cant remember the anti roll thinkness but the front springs were quite hard , 700lbs seems to ring a bell. I did hold the Spitty records at most of the National A meetings, mind you that was back in 2001- may have changed by now.

Rich

Edited by Rich7se on Tuesday 9th June 22:37

[JonyPI]

yes that sounds about right iv got 600lb spring on the front on mine and rear end soft, 600lb everyone says is too hard but its fine even on the road. you got any pics of your twin arm set up?i know it would definately intrest some of the guys on the sideways place, you still have a triumph or have you seen sense now? lol

[Rich7se]

JonyPI said:

yes that sounds about right iv got 600lb spring on the front on mine and rear end soft, 600lb everyone says is too hard but its fine even on the road. you got any pics of your twin arm set up?i know it would definately intrest some of the guys on the sideways place, you still have a triumph or have you seen sense now? lol

LOL, yes I sold the car some years ago, which was then broken for parts. I dont have any pics I am sorry, but its a fairly straight forward mod to carry out. Many people think my car was setup all wrong, but the times showed otherwise, dont let people put you off, dont forget that with the damper/springs at a almost 45 degree angle mechanical advantage is reduced somewhat. And 700 then equates to 350 in real terms.

I did have some vids on here, but removed them a while back, I think in those vids somewhere the rear end was moving about , hence the need to mod it.

I have a Westy now, which is what I should have had all those years ago, although having said that the Spitty days really taught me how to set up a car to handle, geez if you can get a Spit to go around corners you can get anything to do it !!!!...