Speeding up the '6

[gregtr6]

Hi Guys,

I have recently finished restoring my TR6, and am about to embark on uprating the engine. I would like to go the whole electronic fuel injection route with an uprated power output, but I'm scared by the costs involved. Restoring my car's handling and body work has cost me a small fortune and the prospect of at least the same amount on the engine is daunting! (twisted chassis that needed straightening, replacement of all the floor pans, sills and panels from the doors back - usual stuff!!)

Can anyone recommend some mods that won't break the bank and pound for pound give the greatest improvement in performance? I have already fitted a Bosch fuel pump over my cavitating Lucas unit, and I've fitted a Revington over-head throttle mechanism. Everything else is as it left the Coventry factory in 1974. I'm no engineer or mechanic, so I'm a little lost. Lightened flywheels, stage 3 cylinder heads et al leave me scratching my head! I'd ideally like to get to 125-130 bhp at the rear wheels, which I think should be ample for 'fast road' performance (its a UK 125bhp PI car).

Cheers
Greg

[Combover]

Try dropping in a hotter cam, like the one from the previous TR6 version.

Speek to PHer Jellison as he'll tell you far more than most could. His race TR6 has got an all steel version of the engine with all the usual go-faster bits.

[//j17]

I believe the TR6 likes the usual Triumph tuning path:
1) Free flow filters/manifold/exhaust/ammended mixture.
2) Lightened/balanced bottom end (though not sure how much lightening the 2.5s like).
3) Ported (stage 3) head.

Check out the Moss parts catalogues - the Spitfire one certainly incorporates the Spit. parts of the old Moss/Cox tuning guide/catalogue so guessing the TR ones do too. www.moss-europe.co.uk

As it sounds like your running PI at the moment the easiest way to go EFi is to have the PI throttle bodies machined to take EFi injectors.

[Combover]

Keep in mind that roughly 190Bhp is about the limitfor the the cast iron engine. If you want more power, you'd have to go to steel which capable of taking the extras stress and also more capable of reving higher.

I have heard talk of all steel cranks going for £2000 and upwards.

This could get very expensive...

[Yertis]

gregtr6 said:

Hi Guys,

I have recently finished restoring my TR6, and am about to embark on uprating the engine. I would like to go the whole electronic fuel injection route with an uprated power output, but I'm scared by the costs involved. Restoring my car's handling and body work has cost me a small fortune and the prospect of at least the same amount on the engine is daunting! (twisted chassis that needed straightening, replacement of all the floor pans, sills and panels from the doors back - usual stuff!!)

Can anyone recommend some mods that won't break the bank and pound for pound give the greatest improvement in performance? I have already fitted a Bosch fuel pump over my cavitating Lucas unit, and I've fitted a Revington over-head throttle mechanism. Everything else is as it left the Coventry factory in 1974. I'm no engineer or mechanic, so I'm a little lost. Lightened flywheels, stage 3 cylinder heads et al leave me scratching my head! I'd ideally like to get to 125-130 bhp at the rear wheels, which I think should be ample for 'fast road' performance (its a UK 125bhp PI car).

Cheers
Greg

Since you already have the Revington over throttle linkage the way is clear is put in one of his exhaust systems - this will deliver instant benefits, and also bring the best out of whatever other mods you make in the future. EFi isn't so expensive anyway - yes it works best on nice balanced and lightened engines but it will also bring benefits to your tired old Canley lump. Do these things now and then you can save up for the nice engine in a few years. You might want o look at suspension upgrades too before you up the ppower too much, this will make th ecar faster for not so much dosh. If I were you I'd phone Neil Revington and have a chat.

Been there, doing this.

[jellison]

//j17 said:

I believe the TR6 likes the usual Triumph tuning path:
1) Free flow filters/manifold/exhaust/ammended mixture.
2) Lightened/balanced bottom end (though not sure how much lightening the 2.5s like).
3) Ported (stage 3) head.

Check out the Moss parts catalogues - the Spitfire one certainly incorporates the Spit. parts of the old Moss/Cox tuning guide/catalogue so guessing the TR ones do too. www.moss-europe.co.uk

As it sounds like your running PI at the moment the easiest way to go EFi is to have the PI throttle bodies machined to take EFi injectors.

Indeed Greg - drop me a line and I'll fill you in!

Have had our car at every stage from std road car to Ultimate full Race.

[300bhp/ton]

gregtr6 said:

Hi Guys,

I have recently finished restoring my TR6, and am about to embark on uprating the engine. I would like to go the whole electronic fuel injection route with an uprated power output, but I'm scared by the costs involved. Restoring my car's handling and body work has cost me a small fortune and the prospect of at least the same amount on the engine is daunting! (twisted chassis that needed straightening, replacement of all the floor pans, sills and panels from the doors back - usual stuff!!)

Can anyone recommend some mods that won't break the bank and pound for pound give the greatest improvement in performance? I have already fitted a Bosch fuel pump over my cavitating Lucas unit, and I've fitted a Revington over-head throttle mechanism. Everything else is as it left the Coventry factory in 1974. I'm no engineer or mechanic, so I'm a little lost. Lightened flywheels, stage 3 cylinder heads et al leave me scratching my head! I'd ideally like to get to 125-130 bhp at the rear wheels, which I think should be ample for 'fast road' performance (its a UK 125bhp PI car).

Cheers
Greg

I'm no TR6 expert.

But I guess the first things are to improve the induction and exhaust sides of the engine.

Big free flowing exhaust with a sensible tubular manifold is the way to go.

Then ditch the factory induction setup.

Cool air and plenty of it is the trick to HP. You may have to fab up something but a free flowing cone filter infront of the rad in in direct air flow with ducting back to the TB should work well.

I suspect in doing these mods, it'll need a retune else it won't have the correct fuelling.


From here on. Well loads to do.

Improving the heads, if memory serves works well on the old 2.5 S6, accompanying this with a sensible cam will also work wonders.

As for the carbs to EFI - well if you want to go EFI then I'd look a Megasquirt.

But personally I can't see a problem running carbs. Ok they probably won't be quite as fuel efficient and lack the fine tuning over the entire rpm range compared to a modern EFI unit.

But when compared to the old Triumph EFI setup, they are no worse.

I suspect there are many differing setups you could go for, and of varying costs. Side draft Webers look and sound cool, but to be fair multiple SU's work well.

The Triumph S6 is a fantastic old engine, and as with most engines, there is no single way to tune it.

SAH & Triumph Tune used to be the people to speak to, Moss did sell some of their stuff, but no idea if they still do.

[jellison]

The Pi system is Very good with a few minor modes a good cam, head skim, (if a 150 head) and a good exhaust AND a shorter final drive.

You need a 3.7 or ideally 3.9 for a fast road car.

[Yertis]

jellison said:

The Pi system is Very good with a few minor modes a good cam, head skim, (if a 150 head) and a good exhaust AND a shorter final drive.

You need a 3.7 or ideally 3.9 for a fast road car.

Doesn't that mean you're revving your nuts off at motorway speeds though?

[300bhp/ton]

Yertis said:

jellison said:

The Pi system is Very good with a few minor modes a good cam, head skim, (if a 150 head) and a good exhaust AND a shorter final drive.

You need a 3.7 or ideally 3.9 for a fast road car.

Doesn't that mean you're revving your nuts off at motorway speeds though?

But isn't that the balance between acceleration and cruising ability?

It depends what you want from the car.

Travelling at 60mph on the motorway is not such a bad thing BTW.

[jellison]

Yertis said:

jellison said:

The Pi system is Very good with a few minor modes a good cam, head skim, (if a 150 head) and a good exhaust AND a shorter final drive.

You need a 3.7 or ideally 3.9 for a fast road car.

Doesn't that mean you're revving your nuts off at motorway speeds though?

That is what OD is for.

No not really.

Even a 4.1 is ok with OD for cruising (like in my 4), 4.3 in the 6 (that is even ok - use a bit of juice though).

You have to have a higher CWP or any mods are hardly seen.

[jellison]

300bhp/ton said:

Yertis said:

jellison said:

The Pi system is Very good with a few minor modes a good cam, head skim, (if a 150 head) and a good exhaust AND a shorter final drive.

You need a 3.7 or ideally 3.9 for a fast road car.

Doesn't that mean you're revving your nuts off at motorway speeds though?

But isn't that the balance between acceleration and cruising ability?

It depends what you want from the car.

Travelling at 60mph on the motorway is not such a bad thing BTW.

60mph on the M-way - You are kidding - I have seen people like you blocking up the inside lane.

You do know 70mph is the M-Way minimum!

[300bhp/ton]

jellison said:

60mph on the M-way - You are kidding -

At the time it really wasn't thru choice as the car wouldn't go above 62mph.

However, it did seem less stressful than the fast lane and journey times where not any longer, not by any noticeable amount anyhow

jellison said:

I have seen people like you blocking up the inside lane.

Hardly as HGV's are governed to 56mph

jellison said:

You do know 70mph is the M-Way minimum!

[jellison]

300bhp/ton said:

jellison said:

jellison said:

I have seen people like you blocking up the inside lane.

Hardly as HGV's are governed to 56mph

jellison said:

yep but they NEVER actually do that speed - most Big Truck do way over 60 - clock one next time you see a 38 tonner on the flat on an M-way;)

Edited by jellison on Thursday 11th September 17:17

[300bhp/ton]

jellison said:

yep but they NEVER actually do that speed - most Big Truck do way over 60 - clock one next time you see a 38 tonner on the flat on an M-way;)

Edited by jellison on Thursday 11th September 17:17

Rubbish.

Total rubbish, think you need your speedo checking...

[jellison]

Mind you I am usually in the outside lane!

[Sogra]

Recently had a lot of work done to mine as follows,

Stage 2 head gas flowed with oversize valves, skimmed, and uprated springs. (will fit roller rockers next year)

New Pistons, rings & pins oversized (60)

Fast Road Cam (Piper 2TR)
Lightened and balanced flywheel and crankshaft, Also balanced with rods, pistons clutch etc.
Nitride hardened crankshaft

Uprated metering unit

AP Racing clutch plate with Laycock cover and uprated bearing.

Vernier Timing gear, chain and tensioners etc

6 - 1 Phoenix Extractor Manifold with straight thru big bore exhaust.

Also a new high flow radiator and Kenlowe fan.


The car is awesome when you let it rev.

Returns around 14 - 16 mpg when you are giving it some but also when driven sensible on a motorway run to Le Mans it was giving 32mpg.

Not great around town (useable) due to cam but over 2000 rpm and it lights up.

Also upgraded brakes with grooved front discs and original asbestos pads. Rear has asbestos shoes and Alifin drums.

Also put new minilights on with Verdastein Tyres (very sticky ones)

I had already done all the suspension work, harder and lower with full poly bushes.

Dont tell the wife how much I have spent.

Sogra

[Yertis]

Sogra said:

Dont tell the wife how much I have spent.

That's the general rule isn't it.

[jellison]

If you really want to rev it! You could pop in a DKE Crank - mind they are £3.5k now!