lightweight restoration, what upgrades?

[custardtart]

hi, i'm researching info on the best lightweight upgrades to fit to a tr6 and interested in your thoughts/experiences.

i'm planning the following and would be grateful for your suggestions on alternatives?

upgrade & weight saving
ali shocks (what make?) 5kg
ap racing calipers 6kg
non vented x drilled discs 4kg
ali drums 4kg
ali hubs 8kg
ali bell housing ? no idea if you can get this item?
ali minilites 8kg
fibreglass body panels 25kg
red top battery 2kg
lightweight alternator (make?)2kg
lightweight starter motor 2kg
ali radiator 5kg
ali fuel tank 5kg
ali dif housing 5kg
ali rocker cover 2kg

Thats a saving of 83kg which is my estimate, would be grateful if anyone has actual figs for this?

Also, are there other items I've missed that would save a measurable amount, i'm not interested in titanium bolts etc and i'll be keeping the interior standard inc. heater, may use a mini one for less weight as it's unlikely to be driven in the rain but will be driven on cold winter days

thanks in advance
matt

[spitty71]

Hold on a bit there! That list and figures seems a bit plucked out of the air. Without knowing what direction you want to take you car in its hard to suggest but...a few tips.

Usefully the TR has many bolt on panels these can easily be replaced for cheaper GRP items - all 4 wings, bonnet and boot lid that would save you a considerable amount of weight. Certainly if using race weight panels, Aluminum panels are also an option if the budget is sufficient? Careful with wheels and rocker covers etc for example - the alloy rocker covers are heavier than the std item! Some alloy wheels are just as heavy as the steels! So choose carefully, bumpers weigh a ton on the TR so if your keen I'd take those off.

Sorry but weight is not going to be saved from shock absorbers etc lol! Think minimalist without being daft, you could save a fair bit on the interior. Starter motor, alternator waterpump etc would help but we're talking small + expensive gains there.

[custardtart]

Thanks for the reply, all useful stuff.

spitty71 said:

Hold on a bit there! That list and figures seems a bit plucked out of the air. .

As said, all these are estimated, I based them on my knowledge of Westfield compared to the (usually) cast iron parts. I'd like to know what the actual figs are if anyone knows. Westfield owners can obsess about weight saving and there's lots of data from owners who've weighed all the parts on their cars - I was hoping the odd TR6 owner might have done the same

spitty71 said:

Usefully the TR has many bolt on panels these can easily be replaced for cheaper GRP items - all 4 wings, bonnet and boot lid that would save you a considerable amount of weight. .

I've included those in my original post, again with estimated savings which I'm sure won't be too far out. I am a bit concerned about the fit and quailty of Fibreglass though so if anyone knows any good ones....

spitty71 said:

Certainly if using race weight panels, Aluminum panels are also an option if the budget is sufficient? .

Would love them but way too much money sadly

spitty71 said:

Careful with wheels and rocker covers etc for example - the alloy rocker covers are heavier than the std item! .

Didn't know that, do like the look of them though.

spitty71 said:

Some alloy wheels are just as heavy as the steels!.

Very true, would like to know how much the steel wheels weigh, I have some magnesium wheels on the westy but these are probably too brittle for road use. Superlight make some very light 15" x 5.5j alloys for not too much money.

spitty71 said:

So choose carefully, bumpers weigh a ton on the TR so if your keen I'd take those off.

Want to keep them for the look.

spitty71 said:

Sorry but weight is not going to be saved from shock absorbers etc lol! .

Surprised at this, although I haven't yet found any alloy shocks specifically for a TR6 the difference in weight between an alloy and steel shock for the westy is 2kg each and this is unsprung weight so makes a noticeable difference, as the TR6 shocks would probably be bigger I'd expect at least that amount of weight to be saved. Add this to the wieght saved from the hubs and you're looking at nearly 20kg all round, then add in the brake calipers and wheels and you could be knocking on 40kg's of unsprung weight!!!!

spitty71 said:

Think minimalist without being daft, you could save a fair bit on the interior. Starter motor, alternator waterpump etc would help but we're talking small + expensive gains there.

Have put these itmes down in the figs above but again these are estimated - "daft" for me is things like titanium bolts and going on a diet!!

If anyone's interested I've put a breakdown of estimated costs together for the restoration and scarily, it's knocking on 30K!!

[jellison]

custardtart said:

hi, i'm researching info on the best lightweight upgrades to fit to a tr6 and interested in your thoughts/experiences.

i'm planning the following and would be grateful for your suggestions on alternatives?

upgrade & weight saving
ali shocks (what make?) 5kg -
ap racing calipers 6kg
non vented x drilled discs 4kg
ali drums 4kg
ali hubs 8kg
ali bell housing ? no idea if you can get this item?
ali minilites 8kg
fibreglass body panels 25kg
red top battery 2kg
lightweight alternator (make?)2kg
lightweight starter motor 2kg
ali radiator 5kg
ali fuel tank 5kg
ali dif housing 5kg
ali rocker cover 2kg

Thats a saving of 83kg which is my estimate, would be grateful if anyone has actual figs for this?

Also, are there other items I've missed that would save a measurable amount, i'm not interested in titanium bolts etc and i'll be keeping the interior standard inc. heater, may use a mini one for less weight as it's unlikely to be driven in the rain but will be driven on cold winter days

thanks in advance
matt

ali shocks (what make?) 5kg - You could try protech they do steel and alloy (good price and damn good) - but to be honest steel is better
ap racing calipers 6kg - I'd say about half that - overall brakes if larger diameter and alloy 4pots you won't ganin more than 3kg overall
non vented x drilled discs 4kg - see above
ali drums 4kg - about right
ali hubs 8kg - don't do it (ask me why)
ali bell housing ? no idea if you can get this item? Whole of the gearbox is Alloy.
ali minilites 8kg - don't know but run Compomotive copies as they are wider and look the part!
fibreglass body panels 25kg - at least, if not double if you do the doors with no glass - they are 21kg each and plastic door with just the push mechanism will get this down to about 6kg!!
red top battery 2kg - at least - could be doubl that
lightweight alternator (make?)2kg at least
lightweight starter motor 2kg about right
ali radiator 5kg 3-5kg my guess
ali fuel tank 5kg - won't save anything here.
ali diff housing 5kg - you mean cover? if 1 kg - is no ali TR Slaisbury housing - if there was it would be huge cost.
ali rocker cover 2kg - doubt it.

Bin the Hood - about 12kg, Screen 21kg!

We have done alot and still weight 930 - About 40 up on cars built just as racers from a road car and one that might go back more to road spec some day.





A Really strong engine is Really best place to start as all the above pointless if an old std lump is treated hard on a track (it will not last long!) AND the above is really needed to get the best results.

And a CAGE - then you can come and have some REAL Fun.............

Best to strip even a standard one and reassembly it having check all well balanced and in good nick - can then flow the head and put a good cam in it as a starting point, then a good head.

Edited by jellison on Monday 26th November 14:59

[custardtart]

Fantastic pics, that is one mean looking 6!

Having been looking at Protech shocks for the westy, have got a place that will test them and come up with a matched pair so may enquire about the same for a 6.

Engine will be top of the list, thanks for the offer of advice, I'm sure I'll take it up when things get going.

Stop tempting me with the race track, this ones for road and track days only!!

[jellison]

custardtart said:

Stop tempting me with the race track, this ones for road and track days only!!

That is how it alway starts.

Check these and come checkout the Thoroughbredssportscars.com series next year

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6475987099...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1469841583...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-326313176...

http://www.thoroughbredsportscars.com/

[custardtart]

great vids!

lots of steering action going on

not a tr6 but it is my toy at brands!

http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.ind...


will defo get to a few rounds to check out the yellow peril!

[jellison]

Weird site come up my error in the display window?

Those are all in the TR4

Not quite as manic in the TR6 (mind you not as light).

[custardtart]

link works for me!?? should be a myspace site, you may have to wait a minute for the image to load.

was working out the power to weight ratio if your 6 has circa 240bhp and weighs 950kg ish, not bad for an old girl, no wonder those Astons' get nervous

[jellison]

custardtart said:

link works for me!?? should be a myspace site, you may have to wait a minute for the image to load.

was working out the power to weight ratio if your 6 has circa 240bhp and weighs 950kg ish, not bad for an old girl, no wonder those Astons' get nervous

Our car had 220 this year and ended season around 930, run a 4.1 and next year a 4.3! or a 4.1. Yep will do most Astons it comes across, bar the Marsh Plant level ones. Alot of people quote framkly BullSh* power number for these things i.e. 260+ which is cobblers.

Hoping ours will have anoth 10bhp next year and more drive from the 4.3 (has trick OD Close ratio box as does the 4).

240 is about the absolute max on a 2.7 all steel lump with all the right bits - only thing we will not have next year is a full tubi exhaust (Tony Law type) that Joe Henderson has (2.7). Mike Hazlewood TSCC champion for the last 2 years recons his is 888kg and 260bhp (wight is right power more like 240bhp is my guess).

Anything over 200bhp is damn good for a trackday or std crank'd car and with the right gearing can be Mega quick.

[Type 49]

My lightweight 6 had glass fibre panels but by the time you add a roll cage (absolutely essential) the weight comes back.

I changed to wilwood calipers but the weight came back with the vented discs and to be honest the std calipers really are fine.

When i built the engine the reciprocating components were lighter but overall the engine was just as heavy for other reasons.

So probably the best thing to do is fit fibreglass panels and be very very careful!!!

By the way i sold my tr6 race car and bought a caterham!

[jellison]

Type 49 said:

My lightweight 6 had glass fibre panels but by the time you add a roll cage (absolutely essential) the weight comes back.

I changed to wilwood calipers but the weight came back with the vented discs and to be honest the std calipers really are fine.

When i built the engine the reciprocating components were lighter but overall the engine was just as heavy for other reasons.

So probably the best thing to do is fit fibreglass panels and be very very careful!!!

By the way i sold my tr6 race car and bought a caterham!

I am raking my brain here. Malcolm T? or the Silver on with the red stripes? Or the one Phil Lambe races - give me a clue here.

My std brakes were right on the limit with it at just over 1000kg (1050 I think with cage in Road Sport spec). At the end of a sprint race the brakes with Hawk blues where shagged. Might have been fine with that fast road engine at 900kg but not when the weight is down there AND you have 220 - 240bhp (you can't be Mike H he is nver getting out of TR's - much like me).

Aha...........Think I have it - Ha Keith how goes it?

You are probably Lapping me in 02 at Cadwell here god my 4 was unreliable back then.

What you racing now? The Caterham? Didn't you have a ProSport3000?

Hopefully can give Mike H and Joe a Good run for there money next year.

Jon

[Type 49]

Jon we have never met (yet) so keep guessing.

[jellison]

Type 49 said:

Jon we have never met (yet) so keep guessing.

Hmmm on that basis it could be a while Laters.

Jelly