Triumph TR6 -- how stiff should the steering feel ?
Discussion
I'm gradually going through a TR6 I recently acquired, but not having had one before I'm not familiar with how certain things should be. Most noticeably, the steering is absolutely wooden; heavy, no self centre, no feel.
Jacked up and wheels off, it takes two hands to turn the rack using the bulkhead rubber coupling (undone to replace starter). I have now disconnected the track rod ends and although perhaps a tad notchy, the rack feels pretty much as I would expect. The hub swivels appear to be the issue. Prior to my purchasing the car, I believe they have all been apart and new trunnions fitted. My question then is how much force does it typically take to move the hub swivel off load ? I would have guessed at modest effort with one hand and no perceptible stiffness ?
Possibly contributing slightly to the general poor feel, on removing the coupling out of the way at the bulkhead, there is a very visible witness mark where it has been rubbing on the bulkhead, Is there any adjustment to be had to lift the steering column output shaft slightly , which would cure this ? I have tried adjusting the respective lenghs, but there does not seem enough available movement to get the rubber clear.
Mike.
Jacked up and wheels off, it takes two hands to turn the rack using the bulkhead rubber coupling (undone to replace starter). I have now disconnected the track rod ends and although perhaps a tad notchy, the rack feels pretty much as I would expect. The hub swivels appear to be the issue. Prior to my purchasing the car, I believe they have all been apart and new trunnions fitted. My question then is how much force does it typically take to move the hub swivel off load ? I would have guessed at modest effort with one hand and no perceptible stiffness ?
Possibly contributing slightly to the general poor feel, on removing the coupling out of the way at the bulkhead, there is a very visible witness mark where it has been rubbing on the bulkhead, Is there any adjustment to be had to lift the steering column output shaft slightly , which would cure this ? I have tried adjusting the respective lenghs, but there does not seem enough available movement to get the rubber clear.
Mike.
Is the steering heavy when everything's connection/wheels in the air and turning the steering wheel? That shouldn't be especially heavy - but if I'm reading it right you're trying to turn the lower steering shaft directly. At that point you have almost zero torque so yes, probably will be hard to turn.
You might be able to try turning the lower shaft with a pair of big mole grips on it. The end of those would get you somewhere close to the torque of turning the steering wheel so a better idea. And if you could turn the shaft with one hand imagine how light and uncommunicative the steering wheel would be at speed!
You might be able to try turning the lower shaft with a pair of big mole grips on it. The end of those would get you somewhere close to the torque of turning the steering wheel so a better idea. And if you could turn the shaft with one hand imagine how light and uncommunicative the steering wheel would be at speed!
onthecut said:
I'm gradually going through a TR6 I recently acquired, but not having had one before I'm not familiar with how certain things should be. Most noticeably, the steering is absolutely wooden; heavy, no self centre, no feel.
Jacked up and wheels off, it takes two hands to turn the rack using the bulkhead rubber coupling (undone to replace starter). I have now disconnected the track rod ends and although perhaps a tad notchy, the rack feels pretty much as I would expect. The hub swivels appear to be the issue. Prior to my purchasing the car, I believe they have all been apart and new trunnions fitted. My question then is how much force does it typically take to move the hub swivel off load ? I would have guessed at modest effort with one hand and no perceptible stiffness ?
Possibly contributing slightly to the general poor feel, on removing the coupling out of the way at the bulkhead, there is a very visible witness mark where it has been rubbing on the bulkhead, Is there any adjustment to be had to lift the steering column output shaft slightly , which would cure this ? I have tried adjusting the respective lengths, but there does not seem enough available movement to get the rubber clear.
Mike.
What Hilly said.Jacked up and wheels off, it takes two hands to turn the rack using the bulkhead rubber coupling (undone to replace starter). I have now disconnected the track rod ends and although perhaps a tad notchy, the rack feels pretty much as I would expect. The hub swivels appear to be the issue. Prior to my purchasing the car, I believe they have all been apart and new trunnions fitted. My question then is how much force does it typically take to move the hub swivel off load ? I would have guessed at modest effort with one hand and no perceptible stiffness ?
Possibly contributing slightly to the general poor feel, on removing the coupling out of the way at the bulkhead, there is a very visible witness mark where it has been rubbing on the bulkhead, Is there any adjustment to be had to lift the steering column output shaft slightly , which would cure this ? I have tried adjusting the respective lengths, but there does not seem enough available movement to get the rubber clear.
Mike.
Steering on a 6 should actually be pretty light, at least once you're moving. You should be able to move trunnions smoothly on the vertical links without force, but they should not be in any way loose. While you have it apart spin the trunnions right off and check the condition of the threads – in my past I've seen them in awful condition, frighteningly bad. Also I once had a new trunnion (on a GT6) that needed chasing out before it would spin on smoothly. So someone may have just forced them on tight. What to lubricate them with is disputed. Triumph specify EP90 oil, others are happy with hi-temp lithium grease. I think I've got that in there at the moment. IMO the key thing is to keep water out and lube in. Reminds me, I need to do mine.
With re the coupling fouling the bulkhead. Out of interest is it a new bulkhead? The mounting bracket for the steering column seems to be all over the place on those – I also had to shim my column up a bit to align concentrically with the hole. Anyway, that's your adjustment, deep in the footwell. A fiddle but IIRC not too difficult with a spanner and socket, seat out, lie on your back.
Finally, tyres. Obvious really but low profiles eg 195 or 205 are going to feel heavy. The car was originally fitted with 165 in this country or (I think) 185 in the US. I've got 195s on at the mo and they feel quite heavy if I've let the pressure drop eg after a lay-up, but quite light once at the right sort of pressure.
Best thing is to refer to the factory manual BTW.
Thanks for the responses and suggestions.
I don't think using EP90 in the trunnoin is an option --- they appear not to be sealed at the bottom, as using a grease gun pushes a little out there.
I am going back to 165 tyres and am also having the rack renbuilt, after which will give the car some use and see if there i s any change after a week or two.. I think it has done virtually nothing for ten years or so.
I don't think the bulkhead has been replaced, but given the age of the car, can't be sure. Shimming the column up should do the trick.
Fingers crossed !
Mike.
I don't think using EP90 in the trunnoin is an option --- they appear not to be sealed at the bottom, as using a grease gun pushes a little out there.
I am going back to 165 tyres and am also having the rack renbuilt, after which will give the car some use and see if there i s any change after a week or two.. I think it has done virtually nothing for ten years or so.
I don't think the bulkhead has been replaced, but given the age of the car, can't be sure. Shimming the column up should do the trick.
Fingers crossed !
Mike.
You do not want to be using grease in your front trunnions!
Triumph specified EP90 for a reason, because Triumph trunnions are designed to let the oil flow around the trunnion threads in use keeping everything protected. Grease doesn't flow like that so you end up with a load of grease at the bottom of the trunnion/the lowest threads lubricated but the top ones try, leading to corrosion, leading to the vertical link snapping at the top of the threads/trunnion. While this generally happens at parking speeds/full lock it's generally considered sub-optimal...
I'm not sure about after market TR6 trunnions but those on the small chassis Triumphs can be of variable quality. Some are fine but others the 'penny washers' at the bottom aren't sealed properly and the oil leaks out. The usual home fix is to remove/completely degrease/apply a little heat and flow some solder around the joint.
And certainly on the SC Triumphs the easiest way to oil the trunnions is to get on eBay and buy some small 10ml syringes and a short length of windscreen washer hose. Start by jacking up the front end of the car (taking pressure off the usually loaded side of the threads), snip the end of the hose at 45deg, unscrew the grease nipple/blanking plug and you should be able to roughly screw the hose into the hole. Fill syringe with EP90, plug in to other end of hose, push gently until oil flows out from under the dust cap (having of course stripped them down to remove all the grease you/POs previously put in there).
Triumph specified EP90 for a reason, because Triumph trunnions are designed to let the oil flow around the trunnion threads in use keeping everything protected. Grease doesn't flow like that so you end up with a load of grease at the bottom of the trunnion/the lowest threads lubricated but the top ones try, leading to corrosion, leading to the vertical link snapping at the top of the threads/trunnion. While this generally happens at parking speeds/full lock it's generally considered sub-optimal...
I'm not sure about after market TR6 trunnions but those on the small chassis Triumphs can be of variable quality. Some are fine but others the 'penny washers' at the bottom aren't sealed properly and the oil leaks out. The usual home fix is to remove/completely degrease/apply a little heat and flow some solder around the joint.
And certainly on the SC Triumphs the easiest way to oil the trunnions is to get on eBay and buy some small 10ml syringes and a short length of windscreen washer hose. Start by jacking up the front end of the car (taking pressure off the usually loaded side of the threads), snip the end of the hose at 45deg, unscrew the grease nipple/blanking plug and you should be able to roughly screw the hose into the hole. Fill syringe with EP90, plug in to other end of hose, push gently until oil flows out from under the dust cap (having of course stripped them down to remove all the grease you/POs previously put in there).
Edited by //j17 on Tuesday 2nd July 09:40
Edited by //j17 on Tuesday 2nd July 09:41
Happy to report a transformation in the steering. As suggested, trunnions stripped, cleaned, sealed and oil filled. Rack rebuilt. Original size tyres fitted, tracking carefully set. It is now a delight. Light - ish, self centres; job done, I think. Goes to show how a combination of things can add up to really negatively impact the feel and performance.
Mike.
Mike.
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