Discussion
As far as I know..... (my disclaimer !!)
the *main* diff case and innards are the same, but the rear casting is different (as said).
On the saloons, there is a bolt on nose extension which is not fitted to TR range.
The saloon diff has a spline type 'drive' cog in the nose, which connects with the extension drive piece, which supports the trailing arms.
--BUT--
I understand you CAN actually change all the bits over, and fit the TR type 4 bolt flange and its seal, but you have to undo the
main nut (which crushes collapsible spacer for endfloat....), so you have to be very careful about retightening it afterwards.
But it is possible......
2500 saloons had a 3.45, 2000 was a 4.11, and some 2000 autos got a 3.7.
TR5 and 6 PI had a 3.45, but US ones (carb) were 3.7
also I believe the Dolly Sprint had a 3.45 with same innards but fitted in a solid axle....
the *main* diff case and innards are the same, but the rear casting is different (as said).
On the saloons, there is a bolt on nose extension which is not fitted to TR range.
The saloon diff has a spline type 'drive' cog in the nose, which connects with the extension drive piece, which supports the trailing arms.
--BUT--
I understand you CAN actually change all the bits over, and fit the TR type 4 bolt flange and its seal, but you have to undo the
main nut (which crushes collapsible spacer for endfloat....), so you have to be very careful about retightening it afterwards.
But it is possible......
2500 saloons had a 3.45, 2000 was a 4.11, and some 2000 autos got a 3.7.
TR5 and 6 PI had a 3.45, but US ones (carb) were 3.7
also I believe the Dolly Sprint had a 3.45 with same innards but fitted in a solid axle....
Edited by RCK974X on Wednesday 7th June 07:22
Thanks for the replies both.
I took the plunge and bought a 2500 saloon diff off eBay a couple of days ago. It should arrive today or tomorrow.
The seller seems to be very knowledgeable and stated that they are interchangeable. I think he mentioned something about a solid spacer allowing the front plate to be changed without altering end float. I don't understand this though and have a big learning curve ahead!
I won't be starting work on this for a couple of months but when I do, the first challenge will be getting the existing diff out. Easier said than done on a TVR as chassis tubes more or less surround the diff. It could be fun and games...gulp.
Cheers,
Chris
I took the plunge and bought a 2500 saloon diff off eBay a couple of days ago. It should arrive today or tomorrow.
The seller seems to be very knowledgeable and stated that they are interchangeable. I think he mentioned something about a solid spacer allowing the front plate to be changed without altering end float. I don't understand this though and have a big learning curve ahead!
I won't be starting work on this for a couple of months but when I do, the first challenge will be getting the existing diff out. Easier said than done on a TVR as chassis tubes more or less surround the diff. It could be fun and games...gulp.
Cheers,
Chris
Info.....
The front flange (or drive cog in saloon) is held on with a large nut, and this nut ALSO controls the pinion endfloat, which is set very precisely
to ensure quiet running (by making sure the gears mesh just right). They typically have a spacer between two 'cone' type bearings.
(have a look at some diagrams - they are all pretty much the same design...)
Diffs can have either a collapsible spacer (which is not supposed to be reused if you take it apart) or a solid spacer with shims. this then controls how much float/space is between the bearings....
Can't remember what Triumph diffs got which !!
If it has a solid spacer, should be easier, as it's just a dismantle, swop, and reassemble. If it's collapsible, then you have to tighten very carefully
so you can feel where nut hits the spacer....and stop there....
(Note, I've never done this... so it's just what I read....but sharing it in case it helps. I HAVE seen both saloon and TR6 diffs close up though).
Hope this helps....
The front flange (or drive cog in saloon) is held on with a large nut, and this nut ALSO controls the pinion endfloat, which is set very precisely
to ensure quiet running (by making sure the gears mesh just right). They typically have a spacer between two 'cone' type bearings.
(have a look at some diagrams - they are all pretty much the same design...)
Diffs can have either a collapsible spacer (which is not supposed to be reused if you take it apart) or a solid spacer with shims. this then controls how much float/space is between the bearings....
Can't remember what Triumph diffs got which !!
If it has a solid spacer, should be easier, as it's just a dismantle, swop, and reassemble. If it's collapsible, then you have to tighten very carefully
so you can feel where nut hits the spacer....and stop there....
(Note, I've never done this... so it's just what I read....but sharing it in case it helps. I HAVE seen both saloon and TR6 diffs close up though).
Hope this helps....
RCK974X said:
Info.....
The front flange (or drive cog in saloon) is held on with a large nut, and this nut ALSO controls the pinion endfloat, which is set very precisely
to ensure quiet running (by making sure the gears mesh just right). They typically have a spacer between two 'cone' type bearings.
(have a look at some diagrams - they are all pretty much the same design...)
Diffs can have either a collapsible spacer (which is not supposed to be reused if you take it apart) or a solid spacer with shims. this then controls how much float/space is between the bearings....
Can't remember what Triumph diffs got which !!
If it has a solid spacer, should be easier, as it's just a dismantle, swop, and reassemble. If it's collapsible, then you have to tighten very carefully
so you can feel where nut hits the spacer....and stop there....
(Note, I've never done this... so it's just what I read....but sharing it in case it helps. I HAVE seen both saloon and TR6 diffs close up though).
Hope this helps....
Thanks for the info. It makes a bit more sense now.The front flange (or drive cog in saloon) is held on with a large nut, and this nut ALSO controls the pinion endfloat, which is set very precisely
to ensure quiet running (by making sure the gears mesh just right). They typically have a spacer between two 'cone' type bearings.
(have a look at some diagrams - they are all pretty much the same design...)
Diffs can have either a collapsible spacer (which is not supposed to be reused if you take it apart) or a solid spacer with shims. this then controls how much float/space is between the bearings....
Can't remember what Triumph diffs got which !!
If it has a solid spacer, should be easier, as it's just a dismantle, swop, and reassemble. If it's collapsible, then you have to tighten very carefully
so you can feel where nut hits the spacer....and stop there....
(Note, I've never done this... so it's just what I read....but sharing it in case it helps. I HAVE seen both saloon and TR6 diffs close up though).
Hope this helps....
Chris
Mr Tiger said:
Thanks for the info. It makes a bit more sense now.
Chris
My father rebuilt my diff – we was highly skilled engineer and the end result was superb (once we'd reset preload torque using inch/pounds rather than foot/pounds). Reason I'm telling you this is that if you decide to remove the crownwheel/cage etc from the main casing you'll need a special tool which 'spreads' the case just enough to get the crown wheel out – you won't do it otherwise. We had to make this tool.Chris
Yertis said:
My father rebuilt my diff – we was highly skilled engineer and the end result was superb (once we'd reset preload torque using inch/pounds rather than foot/pounds). Reason I'm telling you this is that if you decide to remove the crownwheel/cage etc from the main casing you'll need a special tool which 'spreads' the case just enough to get the crown wheel out – you won't do it otherwise. We had to make this tool.
Sorry for the late reply. Thanks for the further details, all useful info.Chris
Some info for ye, the diff dont need a spreader,
use 2 pry bars, or bigg screwdrivers , and place ont crown wheel bolts,one either side, an prise it oot, dont come on first go, then turn to a new bolt, and lever agen,
it,ll come oot easy this way. ..Got to use the bolt heads, and diff case.
it should be a nice tight fit whenst pulling oot.
if it comes oot freely, then it needs moer shims
put,n it back in, tap the bearing races wid a copper or hide hammer, till its down.
re front/rear bits, basicly the same, { Stag, diff rear case, and diff size pin bearing }
to get a saloon diff onto a TR, then ye need the TR cross mounting bit
and the TR drive flange
put a new oil seal in whilst its oot
front nut, IF its a NYLOK, then its a crush spacer, be care full
if its a castle nut, wid split pin, its a solid spacer.
If ye aint got a tool t,hold the spline sleeve, then use a Windy gun
or clamp spline bit wid some bigg water pump type pliers, and try windy gun
Can lock the CW and the output shafts too, this works.
it,ll all become clear whenst ye look at it,!!!
Underneath either nut, is a v tight fitting spline carrier,
this needs t,come off, so too does the v v tight fitting spacer under it
only realistic way t,get thee,s off / oot, is to tap the pinnion oot into diff case
After the CW is oot the way.
Ye will be advised to tek the carrier wid the CW out, and replace the cup thrusts
they will be well worn, one always wears moer than the other, { round a bouts }
cant say what size, butt, it,ll need at least 40thou moer than whats in now!!
IF its got fibre washers in there, then there a good chance that 1, maybe both are missing, generally just one, as one goes, it frees pre load, and saves the other
DO not get re-placement fibre washers, get the PB type
mod them with a few wee indents on each side for oil retention, same too for the wee cups on side gears
if ye dont check it over, it could be noisey on over run, clonking, due to play in gears int diff planets
mek them as tight as poss, a wee tap into place
as in 100 miles or so, they be bed in, and just right.
mek em slack, easy fit in, they will be too slack in 100 miles
Note, tight is so the outputs cant be turned by hand, but can turn with a bigg barr
long reply, but its a biggish job fitting a diff,
so best sort it befoer its in car
AND, befoer tek,n t,bits, check the tooth contact pattern
with the CW under load, wak a chisel between CW and diff case
then turn input shaft over a few times
its got tobe checked under load, as there a bigg diff between load ,an no load
any questions, just ask, ill help ye re doo it,
M
use 2 pry bars, or bigg screwdrivers , and place ont crown wheel bolts,one either side, an prise it oot, dont come on first go, then turn to a new bolt, and lever agen,
it,ll come oot easy this way. ..Got to use the bolt heads, and diff case.
it should be a nice tight fit whenst pulling oot.
if it comes oot freely, then it needs moer shims
put,n it back in, tap the bearing races wid a copper or hide hammer, till its down.
re front/rear bits, basicly the same, { Stag, diff rear case, and diff size pin bearing }
to get a saloon diff onto a TR, then ye need the TR cross mounting bit
and the TR drive flange
put a new oil seal in whilst its oot
front nut, IF its a NYLOK, then its a crush spacer, be care full
if its a castle nut, wid split pin, its a solid spacer.
If ye aint got a tool t,hold the spline sleeve, then use a Windy gun
or clamp spline bit wid some bigg water pump type pliers, and try windy gun
Can lock the CW and the output shafts too, this works.
it,ll all become clear whenst ye look at it,!!!
Underneath either nut, is a v tight fitting spline carrier,
this needs t,come off, so too does the v v tight fitting spacer under it
only realistic way t,get thee,s off / oot, is to tap the pinnion oot into diff case
After the CW is oot the way.
Ye will be advised to tek the carrier wid the CW out, and replace the cup thrusts
they will be well worn, one always wears moer than the other, { round a bouts }
cant say what size, butt, it,ll need at least 40thou moer than whats in now!!
IF its got fibre washers in there, then there a good chance that 1, maybe both are missing, generally just one, as one goes, it frees pre load, and saves the other
DO not get re-placement fibre washers, get the PB type
mod them with a few wee indents on each side for oil retention, same too for the wee cups on side gears
if ye dont check it over, it could be noisey on over run, clonking, due to play in gears int diff planets
mek them as tight as poss, a wee tap into place
as in 100 miles or so, they be bed in, and just right.
mek em slack, easy fit in, they will be too slack in 100 miles
Note, tight is so the outputs cant be turned by hand, but can turn with a bigg barr
long reply, but its a biggish job fitting a diff,
so best sort it befoer its in car
AND, befoer tek,n t,bits, check the tooth contact pattern
with the CW under load, wak a chisel between CW and diff case
then turn input shaft over a few times
its got tobe checked under load, as there a bigg diff between load ,an no load
any questions, just ask, ill help ye re doo it,
M
GT6M said:
Some info for ye, the diff dont need a spreader,
use 2 pry bars, or bigg screwdrivers , and place ont crown wheel bolts,one either side, an prise it oot, dont come on first go, then turn to a new bolt, and lever agen,
it,ll come oot easy this way. ..Got to use the bolt heads, and diff case.
it should be a nice tight fit whenst pulling oot.
if it comes oot freely, then it needs moer shims
put,n it back in, tap the bearing races wid a copper or hide hammer, till its down.
re front/rear bits, basicly the same, { Stag, diff rear case, and diff size pin bearing }
to get a saloon diff onto a TR, then ye need the TR cross mounting bit
and the TR drive flange
put a new oil seal in whilst its oot
front nut, IF its a NYLOK, then its a crush spacer, be care full
if its a castle nut, wid split pin, its a solid spacer.
If ye aint got a tool t,hold the spline sleeve, then use a Windy gun
or clamp spline bit wid some bigg water pump type pliers, and try windy gun
Can lock the CW and the output shafts too, this works.
it,ll all become clear whenst ye look at it,!!!
Underneath either nut, is a v tight fitting spline carrier,
this needs t,come off, so too does the v v tight fitting spacer under it
only realistic way t,get thee,s off / oot, is to tap the pinnion oot into diff case
After the CW is oot the way.
Ye will be advised to tek the carrier wid the CW out, and replace the cup thrusts
they will be well worn, one always wears moer than the other, { round a bouts }
cant say what size, butt, it,ll need at least 40thou moer than whats in now!!
IF its got fibre washers in there, then there a good chance that 1, maybe both are missing, generally just one, as one goes, it frees pre load, and saves the other
DO not get re-placement fibre washers, get the PB type
mod them with a few wee indents on each side for oil retention, same too for the wee cups on side gears
if ye dont check it over, it could be noisey on over run, clonking, due to play in gears int diff planets
mek them as tight as poss, a wee tap into place
as in 100 miles or so, they be bed in, and just right.
mek em slack, easy fit in, they will be too slack in 100 miles
Note, tight is so the outputs cant be turned by hand, but can turn with a bigg barr
long reply, but its a biggish job fitting a diff,
so best sort it befoer its in car
AND, befoer tek,n t,bits, check the tooth contact pattern
with the CW under load, wak a chisel between CW and diff case
then turn input shaft over a few times
its got tobe checked under load, as there a bigg diff between load ,an no load
any questions, just ask, ill help ye re doo it,
M
You should write for Haynes. use 2 pry bars, or bigg screwdrivers , and place ont crown wheel bolts,one either side, an prise it oot, dont come on first go, then turn to a new bolt, and lever agen,
it,ll come oot easy this way. ..Got to use the bolt heads, and diff case.
it should be a nice tight fit whenst pulling oot.
if it comes oot freely, then it needs moer shims
put,n it back in, tap the bearing races wid a copper or hide hammer, till its down.
re front/rear bits, basicly the same, { Stag, diff rear case, and diff size pin bearing }
to get a saloon diff onto a TR, then ye need the TR cross mounting bit
and the TR drive flange
put a new oil seal in whilst its oot
front nut, IF its a NYLOK, then its a crush spacer, be care full
if its a castle nut, wid split pin, its a solid spacer.
If ye aint got a tool t,hold the spline sleeve, then use a Windy gun
or clamp spline bit wid some bigg water pump type pliers, and try windy gun
Can lock the CW and the output shafts too, this works.
it,ll all become clear whenst ye look at it,!!!
Underneath either nut, is a v tight fitting spline carrier,
this needs t,come off, so too does the v v tight fitting spacer under it
only realistic way t,get thee,s off / oot, is to tap the pinnion oot into diff case
After the CW is oot the way.
Ye will be advised to tek the carrier wid the CW out, and replace the cup thrusts
they will be well worn, one always wears moer than the other, { round a bouts }
cant say what size, butt, it,ll need at least 40thou moer than whats in now!!
IF its got fibre washers in there, then there a good chance that 1, maybe both are missing, generally just one, as one goes, it frees pre load, and saves the other
DO not get re-placement fibre washers, get the PB type
mod them with a few wee indents on each side for oil retention, same too for the wee cups on side gears
if ye dont check it over, it could be noisey on over run, clonking, due to play in gears int diff planets
mek them as tight as poss, a wee tap into place
as in 100 miles or so, they be bed in, and just right.
mek em slack, easy fit in, they will be too slack in 100 miles
Note, tight is so the outputs cant be turned by hand, but can turn with a bigg barr
long reply, but its a biggish job fitting a diff,
so best sort it befoer its in car
AND, befoer tek,n t,bits, check the tooth contact pattern
with the CW under load, wak a chisel between CW and diff case
then turn input shaft over a few times
its got tobe checked under load, as there a bigg diff between load ,an no load
any questions, just ask, ill help ye re doo it,
M
GT6M said:
Some info for ye, the diff dont need a spreader,
use 2 pry bars, or bigg screwdrivers , and place ont crown wheel bolts,one either side, an prise it oot, dont come on first go, then turn to a new bolt, and lever agen,
it,ll come oot easy this way. ..Got to use the bolt heads, and diff case.
it should be a nice tight fit whenst pulling oot.
if it comes oot freely, then it needs moer shims
put,n it back in, tap the bearing races wid a copper or hide hammer, till its down.
re front/rear bits, basicly the same, { Stag, diff rear case, and diff size pin bearing }
to get a saloon diff onto a TR, then ye need the TR cross mounting bit
and the TR drive flange
put a new oil seal in whilst its oot
front nut, IF its a NYLOK, then its a crush spacer, be care full
if its a castle nut, wid split pin, its a solid spacer.
If ye aint got a tool t,hold the spline sleeve, then use a Windy gun
or clamp spline bit wid some bigg water pump type pliers, and try windy gun
Can lock the CW and the output shafts too, this works.
it,ll all become clear whenst ye look at it,!!!
Underneath either nut, is a v tight fitting spline carrier,
this needs t,come off, so too does the v v tight fitting spacer under it
only realistic way t,get thee,s off / oot, is to tap the pinnion oot into diff case
After the CW is oot the way.
Ye will be advised to tek the carrier wid the CW out, and replace the cup thrusts
they will be well worn, one always wears moer than the other, { round a bouts }
cant say what size, butt, it,ll need at least 40thou moer than whats in now!!
IF its got fibre washers in there, then there a good chance that 1, maybe both are missing, generally just one, as one goes, it frees pre load, and saves the other
DO not get re-placement fibre washers, get the PB type
mod them with a few wee indents on each side for oil retention, same too for the wee cups on side gears
if ye dont check it over, it could be noisey on over run, clonking, due to play in gears int diff planets
mek them as tight as poss, a wee tap into place
as in 100 miles or so, they be bed in, and just right.
mek em slack, easy fit in, they will be too slack in 100 miles
Note, tight is so the outputs cant be turned by hand, but can turn with a bigg barr
long reply, but its a biggish job fitting a diff,
so best sort it befoer its in car
AND, befoer tek,n t,bits, check the tooth contact pattern
with the CW under load, wak a chisel between CW and diff case
then turn input shaft over a few times
its got tobe checked under load, as there a bigg diff between load ,an no load
any questions, just ask, ill help ye re doo it,
M
hiya Marcus use 2 pry bars, or bigg screwdrivers , and place ont crown wheel bolts,one either side, an prise it oot, dont come on first go, then turn to a new bolt, and lever agen,
it,ll come oot easy this way. ..Got to use the bolt heads, and diff case.
it should be a nice tight fit whenst pulling oot.
if it comes oot freely, then it needs moer shims
put,n it back in, tap the bearing races wid a copper or hide hammer, till its down.
re front/rear bits, basicly the same, { Stag, diff rear case, and diff size pin bearing }
to get a saloon diff onto a TR, then ye need the TR cross mounting bit
and the TR drive flange
put a new oil seal in whilst its oot
front nut, IF its a NYLOK, then its a crush spacer, be care full
if its a castle nut, wid split pin, its a solid spacer.
If ye aint got a tool t,hold the spline sleeve, then use a Windy gun
or clamp spline bit wid some bigg water pump type pliers, and try windy gun
Can lock the CW and the output shafts too, this works.
it,ll all become clear whenst ye look at it,!!!
Underneath either nut, is a v tight fitting spline carrier,
this needs t,come off, so too does the v v tight fitting spacer under it
only realistic way t,get thee,s off / oot, is to tap the pinnion oot into diff case
After the CW is oot the way.
Ye will be advised to tek the carrier wid the CW out, and replace the cup thrusts
they will be well worn, one always wears moer than the other, { round a bouts }
cant say what size, butt, it,ll need at least 40thou moer than whats in now!!
IF its got fibre washers in there, then there a good chance that 1, maybe both are missing, generally just one, as one goes, it frees pre load, and saves the other
DO not get re-placement fibre washers, get the PB type
mod them with a few wee indents on each side for oil retention, same too for the wee cups on side gears
if ye dont check it over, it could be noisey on over run, clonking, due to play in gears int diff planets
mek them as tight as poss, a wee tap into place
as in 100 miles or so, they be bed in, and just right.
mek em slack, easy fit in, they will be too slack in 100 miles
Note, tight is so the outputs cant be turned by hand, but can turn with a bigg barr
long reply, but its a biggish job fitting a diff,
so best sort it befoer its in car
AND, befoer tek,n t,bits, check the tooth contact pattern
with the CW under load, wak a chisel between CW and diff case
then turn input shaft over a few times
its got tobe checked under load, as there a bigg diff between load ,an no load
any questions, just ask, ill help ye re doo it,
M
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