Making spitfire 1500 reliable
Discussion
If the distributor, rotor arm and cap are in good condition, and correctly set up there is no reason why any Spitfire should not be 100% reliable.
Ran mine (!300 Mk 4) (from brand new) for 35,000 miles.....no problems except a misfire due to a virtually invisible hairline crack in the distributor cap, cured by spending £5 on a new one.
Ran mine (!300 Mk 4) (from brand new) for 35,000 miles.....no problems except a misfire due to a virtually invisible hairline crack in the distributor cap, cured by spending £5 on a new one.
Get the carbs properly balanced and setup by someone who knows what they are doing - They are generally pretty good - years ago I shared a house with a friend with a 1500 Midget and he took the time to setup the engine properly and it always started on the button come rain or shine, cold or hot but a certain degree of adaptation is still required when using a classic, they are not the turn key and go experience modern cars are these days, its also worth remembering they need far more frequent fettling than modern fodder
The main keys to Spitfire reliability are:
1. Service it like a 70s car, not a modern one.
2. Use it.
There's a lot of routine maintainence to be done, most around the 3,000-6,000 mile mark and if you keep on top of it you also keep the gremlins at bay. Main jobs are oiling (NOT greasing) the front trunnions, squirt of grease in any other grease nipples, check engine/gearbox/diff oil levels and for leaks.
Most classic car unreliability tends to come from lack of use. Seals, etc dry out then spring leaks when you do use it.
Specific to the engine:
1. Fit an oil pressure gauge to monitor things (or like me you only discover the big end bearings need replacing when it's too late).
2. If they look old/tired either overhaul or get a pair of rebuilt exchange carbs.
3. If the distributor's past it's best consider a replacement or switching to electrnic ignition. If going electronic having tried a few systems I'd jump right to a modern system like MegaJolt.
1. Service it like a 70s car, not a modern one.
2. Use it.
There's a lot of routine maintainence to be done, most around the 3,000-6,000 mile mark and if you keep on top of it you also keep the gremlins at bay. Main jobs are oiling (NOT greasing) the front trunnions, squirt of grease in any other grease nipples, check engine/gearbox/diff oil levels and for leaks.
Most classic car unreliability tends to come from lack of use. Seals, etc dry out then spring leaks when you do use it.
Specific to the engine:
1. Fit an oil pressure gauge to monitor things (or like me you only discover the big end bearings need replacing when it's too late).
2. If they look old/tired either overhaul or get a pair of rebuilt exchange carbs.
3. If the distributor's past it's best consider a replacement or switching to electrnic ignition. If going electronic having tried a few systems I'd jump right to a modern system like MegaJolt.
//j17 said:
oiling (NOT greasing) the front trunnions
At risk of opening the can of worms, why is this? (On the advice of a well-known specialist) I packed graphite grease into the trunnions when I rebuilt the suspension on my TR 20 years ago (which is frankly scary in itself) and they're absolutely fine. When I'd used oil in my GT6 it was continuously seeping out, even with new seals. Total PITA.Yertis said:
//j17 said:
oiling (NOT greasing) the front trunnions
At risk of opening the can of worms, why is this? (On the advice of a well-known specialist) I packed graphite grease into the trunnions when I rebuilt the suspension on my TR 20 years ago (which is frankly scary in itself) and they're absolutely fine. When I'd used oil in my GT6 it was continuously seeping out, even with new seals. Total PITA.
You can see the hole for the grease nipple, and the hollow threaded section that runs into the trunnion in this pic.
DavidJG said:
The TR is a different design. On the Spit / GT6 the Kingpin (sometimes called a vertical link) locates into the trunnion using a long hollow screw thread. The grease nipple is positioned at the top of the hollow threaded section. If you use grease, it will pass down the tube, hit the bottom of the trunnion, and stop. It won't flow upwards to lubricate the threaded section of the kingpin / trunnion. Oil will. So, a few shots of EP90 oil into the grease nipples, and all is well. A few shots of grease, and you have a completely un-lubricated steering joint. This is inevitably followed by the kingpin snapping just above the trunnion, leaving the front wheel attached only by the upper wishbone, and a very tricky job to now recover the car without damaging it.
You can see the hole for the grease nipple, and the hollow threaded section that runs into the trunnion in this pic.
Thanks for that! One of my life's little mysteries solved.You can see the hole for the grease nipple, and the hollow threaded section that runs into the trunnion in this pic.
Please, jackg, get her a roll-over bar fitted.
Spitfires are remarkably tough and safe if front or rear-ended, but they have no protection at all for the driver if it rolls.
Not that it is likely to do so, but just in case.
Any modern convertible has the equivalent, so do you daughter a favour, please?
£420 at Rimmers - even better if it hadan FIA diagonal. http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRID010680
My son's first car was a Spitfire - he wasn't allowed to drive it until it did have a hoop - but the he was voted to have the coolest car in the school car park!
John
Spitfires are remarkably tough and safe if front or rear-ended, but they have no protection at all for the driver if it rolls.
Not that it is likely to do so, but just in case.
Any modern convertible has the equivalent, so do you daughter a favour, please?
£420 at Rimmers - even better if it hadan FIA diagonal. http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRID010680
My son's first car was a Spitfire - he wasn't allowed to drive it until it did have a hoop - but the he was voted to have the coolest car in the school car park!
John
As others have said a Spitfire will need to be maintained like a '70s car not a modern day car. It will always have the reliability of a '70s car.
Is it the right car for a 17 year old with little mechanical sympathy and ability? Not unless Dad is looking after it all the time.
Is it going to last if used in the winter on wet salty roads?
My advice would be to keep the Spitfire for yourself in a nice warm garage and get her an MX5.
Is it the right car for a 17 year old with little mechanical sympathy and ability? Not unless Dad is looking after it all the time.
Is it going to last if used in the winter on wet salty roads?
My advice would be to keep the Spitfire for yourself in a nice warm garage and get her an MX5.
As others have said. Maintained properly a Spitfire is a great reliable little car, one of the cheapest there is to run. Good advice about a roll-over bar, I'd want one if it was my daughter's car.
Keep on top of the maintenance for her, or teach her how to do some herself and keep it well waxoiled.
Nice to see to see young people into classics.
Keep on top of the maintenance for her, or teach her how to do some herself and keep it well waxoiled.
Nice to see to see young people into classics.
I used to drive mine all year round and to be honest winter driving took its toll so I started laying it up from late October through to February.
The trunnions advice is good.
Also only GL4 EP oil in the Gearbox and Diff (EP90 if you can find it otherwise EP80/90). Don't use GL5 as it can cause damage over time.
I've owned my 1500 since 2003 and it gets driven hard. I also used to compete with it in autotests and the like. Maintenance is non-stop. After most drives I'll make a mental note of something to do to the car when I have time.
I have a rollover bar and I'm inclined to agree it is worth having - but it is a double edged sword. The drivers head will be very close to the bar and in a rear end shunt contact will be made (and hard). I fabricated headrests which are mounted to my rollover bar using very dense foam and vinyl. Primitive but suits the car.
I also fitted a high level led brake light to the rollover bar.
Re the engine - I had electronic ignition but I'm currently back on points. There are very good quality points available (see Powerspark on Ebay). My electronic ignition's magnet failed resulting in it only firing on 3 cylinders. So I'd say you can have a very reliable car running on points - and for completeness show her how to change them and keep a spare set of points/condenser in the boot.
Now - brakes.
Back in the 70s Spitfire brakes were pretty good on standard pads. Reason back then was that the pads contained a lot of asbestos. If you buy "standard" pads nowadays they don't have the asbestos and they are frankly disgraceful. I can't recommend upgraded pads enough.
Some will recommend Greenstuff but I found them to be pretty poor. My pad of choice for both my old cars is Mintex M1144. NOT STANDARD mintex - must be the more expensive M1144 pads. Merlinmotorsport.co.uk often has good prices on these. With standard discs these give a fantastic bite and will make the tyres the limiting factor when braking (as it should be).
Slightly bigger tyres work well. 175/70R13 are pretty much the best compromise.
An after market manifold and exhaust will usually work better in the long term than the standard stuff which was quite bad for developing leaks.
Carbs - take a bit of getting used to but there is an excellent tuning guide on a website called Mintylamb.co.uk
The trunnions advice is good.
Also only GL4 EP oil in the Gearbox and Diff (EP90 if you can find it otherwise EP80/90). Don't use GL5 as it can cause damage over time.
I've owned my 1500 since 2003 and it gets driven hard. I also used to compete with it in autotests and the like. Maintenance is non-stop. After most drives I'll make a mental note of something to do to the car when I have time.
I have a rollover bar and I'm inclined to agree it is worth having - but it is a double edged sword. The drivers head will be very close to the bar and in a rear end shunt contact will be made (and hard). I fabricated headrests which are mounted to my rollover bar using very dense foam and vinyl. Primitive but suits the car.
I also fitted a high level led brake light to the rollover bar.
Re the engine - I had electronic ignition but I'm currently back on points. There are very good quality points available (see Powerspark on Ebay). My electronic ignition's magnet failed resulting in it only firing on 3 cylinders. So I'd say you can have a very reliable car running on points - and for completeness show her how to change them and keep a spare set of points/condenser in the boot.
Now - brakes.
Back in the 70s Spitfire brakes were pretty good on standard pads. Reason back then was that the pads contained a lot of asbestos. If you buy "standard" pads nowadays they don't have the asbestos and they are frankly disgraceful. I can't recommend upgraded pads enough.
Some will recommend Greenstuff but I found them to be pretty poor. My pad of choice for both my old cars is Mintex M1144. NOT STANDARD mintex - must be the more expensive M1144 pads. Merlinmotorsport.co.uk often has good prices on these. With standard discs these give a fantastic bite and will make the tyres the limiting factor when braking (as it should be).
Slightly bigger tyres work well. 175/70R13 are pretty much the best compromise.
An after market manifold and exhaust will usually work better in the long term than the standard stuff which was quite bad for developing leaks.
Carbs - take a bit of getting used to but there is an excellent tuning guide on a website called Mintylamb.co.uk
I passed my test in 1979 in a Spitfire 1500 and did may thousands of miles in it until i sold it in 1987.
Yes - I endorse all the prior trunnion posts. I had a wheel fall off on Wandsworth Bridge in 1986 due to a snapped trunnion. Strangely I have only heard of this happening at slow speed. As you don't know how the trunnions have been maintained (grease instead of EP90) I would have them changed for new. They are not expensive. In fact I never trusted it after the wheel falling off episode and sold it soon afterwards.
Make sure you have the heat shield between the carbs and the manifold otherwise you will get heat soak/fuel evaporation.
I remember changing the standard air filter set up (with the air box and the flexy tube set-up) for K&N pancakes and that caused heat soak and fluffy running when hot in traffic.
I would stick a 123 electronic ignition on it - that will do away with all your points, ballast resister, condenser etc problems.
The rear should have slight negative camber when unladen. Too many have replacement springs with the wrong loading with horrible positive camber that will tuck a wheel under when cornering.
Yes, a rear roll bar is a good safety item, not expensive and may save your neck.
Properly set up they should not rattle. There are quiet a few adjustment points for the bonnet which will inevitably be the cause of any front rattles. Rear rattles (particularly on the overrun) will be worn o/js.
Happy motoring!
Yes - I endorse all the prior trunnion posts. I had a wheel fall off on Wandsworth Bridge in 1986 due to a snapped trunnion. Strangely I have only heard of this happening at slow speed. As you don't know how the trunnions have been maintained (grease instead of EP90) I would have them changed for new. They are not expensive. In fact I never trusted it after the wheel falling off episode and sold it soon afterwards.
Make sure you have the heat shield between the carbs and the manifold otherwise you will get heat soak/fuel evaporation.
I remember changing the standard air filter set up (with the air box and the flexy tube set-up) for K&N pancakes and that caused heat soak and fluffy running when hot in traffic.
I would stick a 123 electronic ignition on it - that will do away with all your points, ballast resister, condenser etc problems.
The rear should have slight negative camber when unladen. Too many have replacement springs with the wrong loading with horrible positive camber that will tuck a wheel under when cornering.
Yes, a rear roll bar is a good safety item, not expensive and may save your neck.
Properly set up they should not rattle. There are quiet a few adjustment points for the bonnet which will inevitably be the cause of any front rattles. Rear rattles (particularly on the overrun) will be worn o/js.
Happy motoring!
OLDBENZ said:
Yes - I endorse all the prior trunnion posts. I had a wheel fall off on Wandsworth Bridge in 1986 due to a snapped trunnion. Strangely I have only heard of this happening at slow speed. As you don't know how the trunnions have been maintained (grease instead of EP90) I would have them changed for new. They are not expensive. In fact I never trusted it after the wheel falling off episode and sold it soon afterwards.
Make sure you have the heat shield between the carbs and the manifold otherwise you will get heat soak/fuel evaporation.
I remember changing the standard air filter set up (with the air box and the flexy tube set-up) for K&N pancakes and that caused heat soak and fluffy running when hot in traffic.
Happy motoring!
From memory, it's more likely to be the kingpin that snaps than the trunnion. In the picture I posted earlier, it's the plain steel shank just above the screw thread that normally fails. For safety, replace both with new items and lubricate well. On assembling from new I'd usually half fill the trunnion with EP90 before screwing the kingpin into place. Oil should escape past the rubber seal at the top of the trunnion when the joint is fully lubricated Make sure you have the heat shield between the carbs and the manifold otherwise you will get heat soak/fuel evaporation.
I remember changing the standard air filter set up (with the air box and the flexy tube set-up) for K&N pancakes and that caused heat soak and fluffy running when hot in traffic.
Happy motoring!
You may wish to place a drip try under the trunnions while you're assembling the joints!In terms of air filters, I'd recommend retaining the standard airbox with cold air feed from the front of the car. Replacing this with 'freer flowing' items leads to the engine drawing in hot air from the engine bay, and can actually reduce available power slightly. You may be able to get a suitable free flowing filter that fits in the standard airbox, otherwise I'd leave these well alone. SU / Stromberg carbs on the Spitfire don't usually suffer with carb icing, so a cold air supply won't cause problems. (Herald 1200 and 12/50 engines with a single Solex carb are a different story - they do ice up sometimes)
I garage greased the trunnions on mine with a copper containing grease and both snapped within a fortnight. That was the only time I had a problem with then in about 100k of spitfire and GT6 motoring.
Going back to the original subject, electronic ignition makes a big difference after that it is just a matter of keeping on top of it.
Going back to the original subject, electronic ignition makes a big difference after that it is just a matter of keeping on top of it.
kartman24 said:
I have always used grease, i give it a pump on the grease gun every 6 months and it does come out from under the top rubber dirt seal and i wipe the excess away.........
Then you've been very lucky!It should be GL4 EP90 oil in the trunnions, topped up ever 6,000 miles. In the Triumph Repair Operations Manual it's actually written "Using OIL lubricate lower steering swivels" (their emphasis, not mine).
On oil-filled trunnions leaking oil.
The oldest trunnions had a solid base but then they were drilled through and a steel cap was swaged in the base, to ease production. Those seal well, but modern reproductions often do not, and oil seeps out, bad for the floor and bad for the trunnion!
There's no cure, this won't work on an old one with oil in the joints, but before you fit a new one, clean the base inside with solvent, and lay a bead of an acrylic glue around the seam, inside. The bottom of the upright never touches that level, so the volume of the bead isn't a problem. This should seal the trunnion for good.
JOhn
The oldest trunnions had a solid base but then they were drilled through and a steel cap was swaged in the base, to ease production. Those seal well, but modern reproductions often do not, and oil seeps out, bad for the floor and bad for the trunnion!
There's no cure, this won't work on an old one with oil in the joints, but before you fit a new one, clean the base inside with solvent, and lay a bead of an acrylic glue around the seam, inside. The bottom of the upright never touches that level, so the volume of the bead isn't a problem. This should seal the trunnion for good.
JOhn
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