Discussion
Basically i'm a rare breed in my generation, i've been raised around older cars. Dad's had a Series 3 E-type roadster since before I was born, i've got a mini, and he's just bought a stag. So I drove the stag not expecting anything special, and I absolutely LOVE it, although it's for sale and the money isn't there for me to buy it at the mo'.
So, as it'll be an everyday car, I know everyone moans about the cooling/head gasket issues, but honestly that really doesn't phase me. And I'm told the risk can be lowered with an upgraded radiator and assorted other bits. (cost for this??)
And, how easily available are parts? As I'll be maintaining it myself.
And is 20 MPG (manual 'box) a decent expectation or are they better/worse than that?
Cheers guys!
So, as it'll be an everyday car, I know everyone moans about the cooling/head gasket issues, but honestly that really doesn't phase me. And I'm told the risk can be lowered with an upgraded radiator and assorted other bits. (cost for this??)
And, how easily available are parts? As I'll be maintaining it myself.
And is 20 MPG (manual 'box) a decent expectation or are they better/worse than that?
Cheers guys!
I get 25mpg from my manual O/D on a long run; it's been tuned pretty carefully but I wouldn't say I drive slowly.
re: head gasket issues.
OK, you see in most cars, especially classics, the head gasket letting go isn't really an issue. In, say, a spitfire you'd just pull the head, and replace the gasket, bolt head back in place. Simple (or cheap if someone is doing it for you). With the stag things are very different. First you have two heads, so double the work. You also have the problem that those heads are made of ally (really crap quality ally at that), so will have warped and need skimming. Then you have the headbolt arrangement. The head bolts are driven in at an angle so they have to be removed before the head comes off. Because of corrosion this will be very difficult indeed and needs specialist experience. I have been unfortunate enough to have two Stags, both of which have had head gasket issues. The bill both times was in excess of £1,500, and I was lucky because both times my heads could be saved and we didn't need to buy new ones. If it happens, it's a problem.
That isn't the only reason people worry, after all, head gasket failures are fairly rare, especially in a properly maintained car.
There are a number of factors on the Stag which makes them prone to head gasket failure. As I mentioned, the heads themselves are made from cheese so corrode internally more readily then most cars, this leads to silting of the water ways, localised overheating, warped heads and a blown head gasket. Not helped by the structural inlet manifold which is torqued against the heads, which actually tries to pull them from the block. Over time this distorts the gasket, leading to failure.
The cooling system on a stag is perfectly adequate. I've had mine stuck in traffic on hot days and it doesn't over heat. Assuming the radiator isn't blocked/full of sand or whatever it's not the capacity of the cooling system which is the problem. The main problem is the location of the water pump. It's right near the top of the engine, so the smallest leak leads very quickly to the water pump being starved...overheating...warped head...head gasket. Not helped by the header tank being below the top of the radiator, which means there's no reservoir of coolant (also makes checking the level a real pain). Also not helped by the temp sender being on the back of one of the heads, so even with an eagle eye on it you could have one head overheating and the gauge will lie and tell you that everything is fine.
I really like Stag's. For me I don't think there's anything for anywhere near the same money that gets close, except perhaps an R107 Mercedes SL or a Jaguar XJS cabrio. After I sold mine I thought long and hard about something else but in the end bought another one but I keep hearing that 'by now all the issues on one will have been sorted' and that all they need is a bigger radiator and they are fine and it's not true. You just need to be aware. If it happens, it happens. I'd be more worried about rust, but that's for another post.
My advice would be to drive a few so you know what they are supposed to be like. You are lucky you have something to compare to. I've driven a fair few stags and most of them have at least one thing very wrong with them. Usually brakes, but soggy suspension and lethargic engines are also common. Yes, all the gearboxes are like that. Yes, I know. You get used to it.
V8Triumph nee pixieporsche drives one everyday, they might be able to help.
ETA: Never had a problem with parts. I believe a few bits are rare; one of the types of water pump, correct Mk1 hoods, quarter light control knobs, working kienzle clocks but I've never had a problem getting stuff. Both mine where the later Mk2 variant. Oh, speaking of hoods, they are more expensive then you think. Wheeler dealers did a Stag once, thought you might be interested.
re: head gasket issues.
OK, you see in most cars, especially classics, the head gasket letting go isn't really an issue. In, say, a spitfire you'd just pull the head, and replace the gasket, bolt head back in place. Simple (or cheap if someone is doing it for you). With the stag things are very different. First you have two heads, so double the work. You also have the problem that those heads are made of ally (really crap quality ally at that), so will have warped and need skimming. Then you have the headbolt arrangement. The head bolts are driven in at an angle so they have to be removed before the head comes off. Because of corrosion this will be very difficult indeed and needs specialist experience. I have been unfortunate enough to have two Stags, both of which have had head gasket issues. The bill both times was in excess of £1,500, and I was lucky because both times my heads could be saved and we didn't need to buy new ones. If it happens, it's a problem.
That isn't the only reason people worry, after all, head gasket failures are fairly rare, especially in a properly maintained car.
There are a number of factors on the Stag which makes them prone to head gasket failure. As I mentioned, the heads themselves are made from cheese so corrode internally more readily then most cars, this leads to silting of the water ways, localised overheating, warped heads and a blown head gasket. Not helped by the structural inlet manifold which is torqued against the heads, which actually tries to pull them from the block. Over time this distorts the gasket, leading to failure.
The cooling system on a stag is perfectly adequate. I've had mine stuck in traffic on hot days and it doesn't over heat. Assuming the radiator isn't blocked/full of sand or whatever it's not the capacity of the cooling system which is the problem. The main problem is the location of the water pump. It's right near the top of the engine, so the smallest leak leads very quickly to the water pump being starved...overheating...warped head...head gasket. Not helped by the header tank being below the top of the radiator, which means there's no reservoir of coolant (also makes checking the level a real pain). Also not helped by the temp sender being on the back of one of the heads, so even with an eagle eye on it you could have one head overheating and the gauge will lie and tell you that everything is fine.
I really like Stag's. For me I don't think there's anything for anywhere near the same money that gets close, except perhaps an R107 Mercedes SL or a Jaguar XJS cabrio. After I sold mine I thought long and hard about something else but in the end bought another one but I keep hearing that 'by now all the issues on one will have been sorted' and that all they need is a bigger radiator and they are fine and it's not true. You just need to be aware. If it happens, it happens. I'd be more worried about rust, but that's for another post.
My advice would be to drive a few so you know what they are supposed to be like. You are lucky you have something to compare to. I've driven a fair few stags and most of them have at least one thing very wrong with them. Usually brakes, but soggy suspension and lethargic engines are also common. Yes, all the gearboxes are like that. Yes, I know. You get used to it.
V8Triumph nee pixieporsche drives one everyday, they might be able to help.
ETA: Never had a problem with parts. I believe a few bits are rare; one of the types of water pump, correct Mk1 hoods, quarter light control knobs, working kienzle clocks but I've never had a problem getting stuff. Both mine where the later Mk2 variant. Oh, speaking of hoods, they are more expensive then you think. Wheeler dealers did a Stag once, thought you might be interested.
Edited by varsas on Monday 19th December 13:43
Indeed, my Stag surpassed my expectations and I am not even finished with it yet!
I would go with the above guide and see how you get on. I went with the route of buying a cheap car and fixing it (albeit it came with a paintjob and a ZF gearbox conversion).
The one thing I would say regarding the cooling system is to keep it in tip top condition. On mine I changed all of the cooling hoses (half of them were of the hard cloth reinforced variety) the correct thermostat with a jiggle pin and foot to allow the bypass circuit to work correctly (mine was missing the thermostat...), in addition to some good antifreeze of the non OAT variety once a thorough flush has been performed on the cooling system.
Once I did the above I went from an apparently hot running engine (it was actually running too cool thanks to having one of these electric voltage stabilizers incorrectly fitted) to an engine which so far seems to stay cool in traffic in addition to experiencing a wonderful V8 engine note regardless of whether you are pootling around or putting your foot down
.
I would go with the above guide and see how you get on. I went with the route of buying a cheap car and fixing it (albeit it came with a paintjob and a ZF gearbox conversion).
The one thing I would say regarding the cooling system is to keep it in tip top condition. On mine I changed all of the cooling hoses (half of them were of the hard cloth reinforced variety) the correct thermostat with a jiggle pin and foot to allow the bypass circuit to work correctly (mine was missing the thermostat...), in addition to some good antifreeze of the non OAT variety once a thorough flush has been performed on the cooling system.
Once I did the above I went from an apparently hot running engine (it was actually running too cool thanks to having one of these electric voltage stabilizers incorrectly fitted) to an engine which so far seems to stay cool in traffic in addition to experiencing a wonderful V8 engine note regardless of whether you are pootling around or putting your foot down
.My MOD gets about 28MPG on a run and 22MPG around town.
Parts are plentiful enough and the car is easy for most to work on (I seem to manage).
Cooling system shouldn't be much of a concern. In standard form, just make sure the VC fan is working properly and that the coolant is flushed every couple of years and there's no air in the system. A common mod is for people to add an aftermarket header tank to fix the latter. If coolant is kept in good order and fluid level checked regularly there shouldn't be an issue. You can also get slightly larger 'super grill' radiator for around £280 or for more you can go down the alloy rad route that several people sell such as E J Wards and Faversham Classics - which I've done.
Lowering kits aren't too expensive but I'd be weary going any further than 1" due to front wheel clearance if fitting 195 or 205 tyres. You can get progressive rate 1" lowered springs for around £110 for a set and you'll also need custom rear trailing arm brackets to adjust for the negative camber that ensues from lowering the rear end - about another £100. Monarch Stag and Hart Racing Services both have kits.
Parts are plentiful enough and the car is easy for most to work on (I seem to manage).
Cooling system shouldn't be much of a concern. In standard form, just make sure the VC fan is working properly and that the coolant is flushed every couple of years and there's no air in the system. A common mod is for people to add an aftermarket header tank to fix the latter. If coolant is kept in good order and fluid level checked regularly there shouldn't be an issue. You can also get slightly larger 'super grill' radiator for around £280 or for more you can go down the alloy rad route that several people sell such as E J Wards and Faversham Classics - which I've done.
Lowering kits aren't too expensive but I'd be weary going any further than 1" due to front wheel clearance if fitting 195 or 205 tyres. You can get progressive rate 1" lowered springs for around £110 for a set and you'll also need custom rear trailing arm brackets to adjust for the negative camber that ensues from lowering the rear end - about another £100. Monarch Stag and Hart Racing Services both have kits.
varsas has answered many of your questions Don't think I could have answered better
I must admit I don't see 25mpg in mine, I see about 18-20. The Stag is great fun, has a good enough heater to run through the winter (on the nicer days). Roof is quick to fold up and down and mine is very reliable.
My daily is currently my chrome bumper MGB GT V8 but that's just 'cos I fancy a change
Don't think I could have answered better I must admit I don't see 25mpg in mine, I see about 18-20. The Stag is great fun, has a good enough heater to run through the winter (on the nicer days). Roof is quick to fold up and down and mine is very reliable.
My daily is currently my chrome bumper MGB GT V8 but that's just 'cos I fancy a change
I have the ZF 4 speed auto in my Stag, with the 3.45:1 diff from the 2500S estate, which had identical casings to the Stag and bolts straight up.
Acceleration has been dulled very slightly, but 2nd gear is good for a GPS verified 100mph, and 30mph per 1000rpm when in 4th and the converter locked - touring MPG is 29+ and overall of in excess of 26mpg.
It has the advantage of being a lot kinder to the engine on the motorway too.....
Acceleration has been dulled very slightly, but 2nd gear is good for a GPS verified 100mph, and 30mph per 1000rpm when in 4th and the converter locked - touring MPG is 29+ and overall of in excess of 26mpg.
It has the advantage of being a lot kinder to the engine on the motorway too.....
Gassing Station | Triumph | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff