Just bought my first Triumph - help needed.

[Niffty951]

Hi all, just bought a 1976 Spitfire 1500 my first ever classic (unless you count a mini).

It's had a fair bit of work done to it (front and rear anti roll bars added, spax shock/dampers, new brakes/lines) it also has a fully built engine with triumph tune stage 3 head, fast road cam, webber carb and elec ignition. It is claimed to have been dyno'd at 110hp but to me it feels 60hp -70 at best.

The engine seems very good, it's totally clean from the exhausts (uses no oil), sounds smooth and runs cool but has a very short usable power band 2500-5000 below and above this it feels totally dead outside of this. Who's the best person to go to near Northampton to check the tuning and can work with webber carbs?

In addition the diff has a nasty whine 60mph up and a nasty tapping of teeth sound (all speeds). How, what, where and how much to replace?

Lastly there is quite a bit of play 10-20deg around the straight ahead on the steering. Is this typical?

I know this all sounds bad but other than this the car seems a really lucky find. It really is beautiful and very clean.

Thanks in advance for any help

[chard]

Niffty951 said:

In addition the diff has a nasty whine 60mph up and a nasty tapping of teeth sound (all speeds). How, what, where and how much to replace?

Have you tried checking the oil?

[Niffty951]

Funny you should say that. It's on todays list haven't looked at the manual yet, is it a satanic job?

[chard]

I've not done one on a Triumph but most will have a a filler/level plug. Always check the simple things 1st

[Hammer67]

Easy enough to check. Filler plug on diff casing, fill until oil leaks from filler hole. Make sure the jiggle pin in the top of the diff casing is free in its vent hole.

I would think its quite possible that, if your diff hasn`t been uprated in line with your engine, it may have struggled to handle the extra power.

[Spitfire2]

Niffty951 said:

Lastly there is quite a bit of play 10-20deg around the straight ahead on the steering. Is this typical?

NO! but it could be an easy fix.

1. On the column below the dash is a clamp which holds the sliding parts of the steering column together. One side has 2 bolts, the other one bolt. Don't touch the single bolt (as it is tensioned to allow sliding in an accident) but you can tighten the 2 bolts on the other side. I've seen these loose causing the symptom you describe.

2. There is a Universal joint type join down at the steering rack end. May need replaced - tightened. If the latter replace with new nylock bolts.

[//j17]

Spitfire2 said:

2. There is a Universal joint type join down at the steering rack end. May need replaced - tightened. If the latter replace with new nylock bolts.

If it's this you can just get a standard replacement joint but I'd recommend a solid one, available from RareBits - http://www.rarebits4classics.co.uk The quality of the standard replacement parts isn't great and I've had one need replacing after 3000 miles - not an issue with the solid ones.

Also check the mounting rubbers between the rack and the chassis. If these are shot you can also get lost movement.

[varsas]

Niffty951 said:

Hi all, just bought a 1976 Spitfire 1500 my first ever classic (unless you count a mini).

The engine seems very good, it's totally clean from the exhausts (uses no oil), sounds smooth and runs cool but has a very short usable power band 2500-5000 below and above this it feels totally dead outside of this. Who's the best person to go to near Northampton to check the tuning and can work with webber carbs?

I know people who have put the standard cam back in their cars for road driving. Any idea what the timing on the cam is?

Poor performance at low revs might be something as simple as timing. If the car dies on you when you floor the throttle at, say 1200rpm it's defiantly worth checking. Find the TDC mark on the crank, mark it with tipex. Get a timing gun. Plug the timing gun into no.1 spark plug and point at the crank, you'll see the timing mark. It should move as the engine is revved. Now remove the vacuum advance, the tube between carb and dizzy. The crank mark should still move when the engine is revved, but much less. If either of these tests fail then either vacuum or centrifugal advance is broken.

Mark the position of the distributor with tip ex. Loosen the bolt holding it to it's pedestal, until you can rotate it. Start the car (with the vacuum disconnected). Very slowly and gently rotate the distributor one way, then the other. Find the point at which the engine revs are at the highest, then move it slightly clockwise (to retard ignition a bit). Stop the car, do up the bolt, re-attach vacuum. Test drive the car. Be very careful as it may now have way to much advance and pink under load. If it does, stop, rotate the dizzy a bit more clockwise and try again. If the car ever fails to start just put it back where it was using the mark on the dizzy cap.

As a separate test; after a decent drive, leave the car to cool, then remove the spark plugs and examine them. They should have a nice light coating, if not suspect the jetting or mixture setting of the carb. My favorite way of testing fueling is with a colourtune, but it won't help you if the jetting is wrong. You need a rolling road for that.

Does it have webber carbs, as in more then one? wow....

[rallyspit]

"Who's the best person to go to near Northampton to check the tuning and can work with webber carbs?"

The TSSC has a lively competition section where advice is available on highly tuned engines. Webers (one B only) can be difficult to get right, but once done they do tend to stay in tune. Your power band may be due to the cam (- what type of fast road cam do you have?) and/or fueling. You're not relying on the original mechanical pump are you? A race spec cam and insufficient petrol would give the symtoms you describe.

I've found Mark Field at Jigsaw Racing in Desborough a huge fund of information. He looks after several racers and rallyists (including his own ex-works car)

Finally, what do you intend to use the car for? It's always going to be temperamental in traffic with that sort of tune.

[//j17]

Niffty951 said:

...it also has a fully built engine with triumph tune stage 3 head, fast road cam, webber carb and elec ignition.

...has a very short usable power band 2500-5000 below and above this it feels totally dead outside of this.

Sounds quite like my car, except on on SUs and buggered ignition at the moment.

What sort of elec ignition are we talking - basic bolt-on kit that still uses the dizzy or something modern and mappable like MegaJolt?

I'm in the process (i.e. bought the bits but not actually touched them ) of switching to MegaJolt as a few rolling road session to sort out occasional pinking/nothing below 2000RPM found I could either have it tuned for driving, but pinking or tuned for max power but unable to get away from the lights without sounding like a tt. Basically my car wants loads more advance at low RPm and loads less at high RPM. More or less impossible with a dizzy.

[Niffty951]

The system on my car is just a simple one. I guess some kind of an amplifier, it uses the original distributor.

An update on the car having changed oil, diff oil, flushed rad, Cleaned k&n filter, changed plugs, undersealed, cleaned inside and out + done a few hundred miles.. I've discovered the tang tang tang noise from the back is almost certainly the U-joint rather than noise from the diff. The engine now runs WAY better than it did when I first got it, it can now usably be driven around between 1000-2500rpm without feeling like it's going to bog down or stall. It obviously needed a good run and an Italian tune up.

Having done everything I could do myself I've now had my first expense on the car. Sent the wheels off to be re-furbished and bought a new steering rack/track rod arms to try and remove the play in the steering (I checked all the joints and connections on the steering column but all were tight and new looking). Total cost so far including plugs, rack, new brackets/bolts/bushes, wheels stripped and re-sprayed oh and one starter solonoid £290 I love this car!!!

[Niffty951]

Just read the other responses. I've booked it into a local rolling road'The Mini & Metro centre' because they say they know Weber carbs and will be able to do a much better job than me learning for the first time. In addition it's cheaper than buying all the kit for myself as I don't have timing lights or anything here.

I'm afraid it's just the one Weber but it is a twin butterfly. The Engine build spec sheet says:

New Pistons & rebore
Crank reground and ballanced
Flywheel lightened by 4 lb
New Clutch
Stage III Head fitted (Large inlet valves and gas flowed)
New Rocker shaft
Fast road 83 Cam
Cam followers lightened
Weber inlet manifold
45DCOE Weber carburetor
3 piece manifold and S/S exhaust
Up rated oil pump
Mocal Oil cooler
Piranha electronic ignition

All parts came from Triumph tune.

Like I say the car feels much better for having had a run but it is still a long way from the 110hp once recorded by Lotus who originally set the car up.