NITRONS - 3 ways - where do i begin?
Discussion
I emailed Nitron for some advice but had no reply. I intend to do some research but no doubt there will be sound advice from the good people here.
I bought my set of Nitrons nearly 2 years ago! My engine blew before i fitted them and the full chassis febuild began at this time. The car is getting very close to turning a wheel under its own power again so i want to think about setting up my suspension.
As i spend a lot of my time at the drag strip i bought 3-ways for the rear on advice that i can fine tune the low speed damping.
I fit the shocks as Nitron supplied. I aim to take the car to TrackvRoad for a full geo set up as soon as i can. I obviously wont be driving the car on the road until this is done.
My spring rates were decided at the time at 375/325 IIRC.
So any advice please on a starting point to my settings. If anybody also has advice on the geo set up to aid the drag racing launches then all the better.
I bought my set of Nitrons nearly 2 years ago! My engine blew before i fitted them and the full chassis febuild began at this time. The car is getting very close to turning a wheel under its own power again so i want to think about setting up my suspension.
As i spend a lot of my time at the drag strip i bought 3-ways for the rear on advice that i can fine tune the low speed damping.
I fit the shocks as Nitron supplied. I aim to take the car to TrackvRoad for a full geo set up as soon as i can. I obviously wont be driving the car on the road until this is done.
My spring rates were decided at the time at 375/325 IIRC.
So any advice please on a starting point to my settings. If anybody also has advice on the geo set up to aid the drag racing launches then all the better.
FlipFlopGriff said:
Derek,
Normal Nitrons I'd start at 10 from hard all round and see where you go from there. Its all about personal preference. How many clicks between soft and hard? I'd start in the middle but always set from hard as there may be a couple of clicks difference with each damper.
FFG
I agree with FFG. I would add that your choice of Track v Road is spot on. Ian at Track v Road is "the wizard" at setting up. He sorted out my Tuscan 1 in the past and it had truly never handled as well, a completely transformed car. He also set up the Nitron's on my Sagaris recently and now, that too, is off the scale better than ever before. Normal Nitrons I'd start at 10 from hard all round and see where you go from there. Its all about personal preference. How many clicks between soft and hard? I'd start in the middle but always set from hard as there may be a couple of clicks difference with each damper.
FFG
Ive tried looking for books but all seem to be dedicated to live axles when it comes to drag racing.
I will let TvR set the car as they wish then i will experiment with minor adjustments at the track and see what works.
Usually the best tuning is done like this anyway.
Plus its a lot more fun
I will let TvR set the car as they wish then i will experiment with minor adjustments at the track and see what works.
Usually the best tuning is done like this anyway.
Plus its a lot more fun
3 ways are very different to the std as you're aware and soft to hard click numbers will mean little as there is seperate adjustments for the compression and rebound etc . .
Surely some of the drag guys use 3 ways, do they not have forums etc
I have always used Steve Gugliemi for suspension set up, however I imagine road versus drag strip will be very very different and it's easy to find stories of people getting lost trying to set up 3 ways.
Initially I'd think I'd want to find a base set up that I could always revert too, then understand the differences I would cause by changing differing aspects of the set up and then trying them, recording everything all the time so I knew what I'd changed.
Probably not much help, but I doubt many if any on here could advise a set up for 3ways . . .
Surely some of the drag guys use 3 ways, do they not have forums etc
I have always used Steve Gugliemi for suspension set up, however I imagine road versus drag strip will be very very different and it's easy to find stories of people getting lost trying to set up 3 ways.
Initially I'd think I'd want to find a base set up that I could always revert too, then understand the differences I would cause by changing differing aspects of the set up and then trying them, recording everything all the time so I knew what I'd changed.
Probably not much help, but I doubt many if any on here could advise a set up for 3ways . . .
That 'base' set up is exactly what i am looking for from this thread.
I also started a theread on the 'drag racing' forum in PH but only had a point to Jon Webster. I emailed and he promptly replied only to suggest that i attend one of their Santa Pod test days. That would definately do the trick but they are seldom and £180 +vat.
I may look to attending one of these next year but i need to get my act together on my car asap ahead of the shootout in July.
I also started a theread on the 'drag racing' forum in PH but only had a point to Jon Webster. I emailed and he promptly replied only to suggest that i attend one of their Santa Pod test days. That would definately do the trick but they are seldom and £180 +vat.
I may look to attending one of these next year but i need to get my act together on my car asap ahead of the shootout in July.
What i have gathered as a vey basic.....
Hard setting rear, soft rebound on the front.
Slightly nose high (maybe not as bad as mine was previous!)
Fit that rear antiroll and SH droplinks to tie the rear as much as possible.
I guess i will have to set the camber to a minimum requirement for road use.
Hard setting rear, soft rebound on the front.
Slightly nose high (maybe not as bad as mine was previous!)
Fit that rear antiroll and SH droplinks to tie the rear as much as possible.
I guess i will have to set the camber to a minimum requirement for road use.
Nitron 3ways are very good and you can fine tune them to pretty much exactly what you want as has been said! TBH if you spoke to Nitron when you bought them about the use they will get, try them at the settings they sent them with first, they weren't too far away on the racer!
I've got a sheet that did help us when trying to get the best (well, I still am!) that explains a little on what to do dependant on how the car is handling. For best road course handling the rake of the car should be a little lower at the front (15-25mm iirc) ona rwd car. Not sure if this is the same for drag use though...?
Drop me a PM and I'll get the info sheet scanned in when I've time and sent through to you - hopefully will help!
Dave
I've got a sheet that did help us when trying to get the best (well, I still am!) that explains a little on what to do dependant on how the car is handling. For best road course handling the rake of the car should be a little lower at the front (15-25mm iirc) ona rwd car. Not sure if this is the same for drag use though...?
Drop me a PM and I'll get the info sheet scanned in when I've time and sent through to you - hopefully will help!
Dave
dbv8 said:
What i have gathered as a vey basic.....
Hard setting rear, soft rebound on the front.
Slightly nose high (maybe not as bad as mine was previous!)
Fit that rear antiroll and SH droplinks to tie the rear as much as possible.
I guess i will have to set the camber to a minimum requirement for road use.
not sure if this will help but i run a softer spring on the back of my hayabusa with softer damping and a lot of rebound so the weight transfer under power makes it squat and the increased rebound stops it unloading between gear changes can't say for the front as mines never on the tarmac much !Hard setting rear, soft rebound on the front.
Slightly nose high (maybe not as bad as mine was previous!)
Fit that rear antiroll and SH droplinks to tie the rear as much as possible.
I guess i will have to set the camber to a minimum requirement for road use.
Hi Derek,
Firstly heres a Nitron set up guide...
http://www.tvrmonster.com/Nitron%20Damper%20Guide....
Then, some thoughts...
You aren't going to be following any of the norms for road/track/race, so forget them.
You want the car to grip at the back and stay sat down through the gear changes...hopefully staying sat.
Not the norm.
Thoughts on Geo...depending on how keen your are...
0 mins toe in fr and rear - keep the wheels dead straight.
(this will reduce drag, but make the car awful on the road ie twitchy and vague in the bends)
0 camber rear when suspension compressed - keep full contact patch for grip
Max camber at front - minimal rolling resistance/drag. -2 with std wisbones but there are some that will get -8.
Next suspension
Low at the back ofcourse (to get the weight there)
and either
let the car drop back ie sit down with quick rbnd front and quick bmp rear
or
set the back with the springs (ride height)and run it stiff all round to hold it there.
You will be traill blazing in TVR turf here I guess, but ask around the paddock where other road cars compete (but NOT with you
) and only use what makes sense. Your Tiv is probably MUCH more adjustable than most others.
WEIGHT - if its not obvious a 1000kg car will be quicker than a 1100kg car.
TEST!!! You will only know when you see the numbers!
Finally - KEEP notes on EVERY run. Data is expensive and it's the only way you will know!
Oh...and have fun
Andy
Firstly heres a Nitron set up guide...
http://www.tvrmonster.com/Nitron%20Damper%20Guide....
Then, some thoughts...
You aren't going to be following any of the norms for road/track/race, so forget them.
You want the car to grip at the back and stay sat down through the gear changes...hopefully staying sat.
Not the norm.
Thoughts on Geo...depending on how keen your are...
0 mins toe in fr and rear - keep the wheels dead straight.
(this will reduce drag, but make the car awful on the road ie twitchy and vague in the bends)
0 camber rear when suspension compressed - keep full contact patch for grip
Max camber at front - minimal rolling resistance/drag. -2 with std wisbones but there are some that will get -8.
Next suspension
Low at the back ofcourse (to get the weight there)
and either
let the car drop back ie sit down with quick rbnd front and quick bmp rear
or
set the back with the springs (ride height)and run it stiff all round to hold it there.
You will be traill blazing in TVR turf here I guess, but ask around the paddock where other road cars compete (but NOT with you
) and only use what makes sense. Your Tiv is probably MUCH more adjustable than most others.WEIGHT - if its not obvious a 1000kg car will be quicker than a 1100kg car.
TEST!!! You will only know when you see the numbers!
Finally - KEEP notes on EVERY run. Data is expensive and it's the only way you will know!
Oh...and have fun
Andy
Edited by Guillotine on Saturday 23 April 15:01
Thanks for the input Andy.
I am looking forward to trying out some of the theory altho i will have to have somewhat of a halfway house set up as i will be driving the car to the track.
I tried applying a few of the advised changes (shock settings) to Peter (HaircutMikes) car at Odiham yesterday but we couldnt improve on his 60 foot times.
We even swapped his 888's for my MTs for a few runs but no significant difference.
The grip on the concrete runway was actually pretty good with consistant 1.8/1.9 seconds to 60 foot and Peter recorded a 12.6 @ 113 in his Chimaera 500.
I know it will be different on a proper dragstrip and expect to see mid 1.7s at least from my car in July.
I am looking forward to trying out some of the theory altho i will have to have somewhat of a halfway house set up as i will be driving the car to the track.
I tried applying a few of the advised changes (shock settings) to Peter (HaircutMikes) car at Odiham yesterday but we couldnt improve on his 60 foot times.
We even swapped his 888's for my MTs for a few runs but no significant difference.
The grip on the concrete runway was actually pretty good with consistant 1.8/1.9 seconds to 60 foot and Peter recorded a 12.6 @ 113 in his Chimaera 500.
I know it will be different on a proper dragstrip and expect to see mid 1.7s at least from my car in July.
dbv8 said:
Thanks for the input Andy.
I am looking forward to trying out some of the theory altho i will have to have somewhat of a halfway house set up as i will be driving the car to the track.
I tried applying a few of the advised changes (shock settings) to Peter (HaircutMikes) car at Odiham yesterday but we couldnt improve on his 60 foot times.
We even swapped his 888's for my MTs for a few runs but no significant difference.
The grip on the concrete runway was actually pretty good with consistant 1.8/1.9 seconds to 60 foot and Peter recorded a 12.6 @ 113 in his Chimaera 500.
I know it will be different on a proper dragstrip and expect to see mid 1.7s at least from my car in July.
i think the principle is the same realativly bike and car it's all about loading the rear without bogging down lower hp will work better on a poor strip but risk bogging on one like the pod i did thorney island last year and couldn't hook up at all(1/4 mile bunout effectivly) if your too aggresive at a rubber track(pod) you're likley to go slower due to bogging down oimo. I am looking forward to trying out some of the theory altho i will have to have somewhat of a halfway house set up as i will be driving the car to the track.
I tried applying a few of the advised changes (shock settings) to Peter (HaircutMikes) car at Odiham yesterday but we couldnt improve on his 60 foot times.
We even swapped his 888's for my MTs for a few runs but no significant difference.
The grip on the concrete runway was actually pretty good with consistant 1.8/1.9 seconds to 60 foot and Peter recorded a 12.6 @ 113 in his Chimaera 500.
I know it will be different on a proper dragstrip and expect to see mid 1.7s at least from my car in July.
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