General questions about RV8 rebuilds
Discussion
Tivvers,
I get the impression that the TVR/Rover V8 engines are relatively robust but many still get a new cam or engine rebuild at some point. I feel my engine is fine, but I am looking into some of the longer term costs of ownership, etc.
Would someone be able to answer some of my questions relating to this?
Q1) Why would a RV8 engine typically need a rebuild? (sudden engine failure, or cam wear leading to gradual loss of power?)
Q2) How many miles would you expect a typical RV8 engine to last for before a rebuild is needed?
Q3) How do you know that your engine could do with a rebuild/cam? (unhealthy noise or sudden power loss? Rolling road results?)
Q4) Roughly what does it cost to get a rebuild/cam and how long does this take to complete?
If anyone has any other comments or background info on this, feel free to post it.
Thanks!
I get the impression that the TVR/Rover V8 engines are relatively robust but many still get a new cam or engine rebuild at some point. I feel my engine is fine, but I am looking into some of the longer term costs of ownership, etc.
Would someone be able to answer some of my questions relating to this?
Q1) Why would a RV8 engine typically need a rebuild? (sudden engine failure, or cam wear leading to gradual loss of power?)
Q2) How many miles would you expect a typical RV8 engine to last for before a rebuild is needed?
Q3) How do you know that your engine could do with a rebuild/cam? (unhealthy noise or sudden power loss? Rolling road results?)
Q4) Roughly what does it cost to get a rebuild/cam and how long does this take to complete?
If anyone has any other comments or background info on this, feel free to post it.
Thanks!
Had my 4.0 RV8 rebuilt last year.
Q1) Mine went from 'healthy' to suddenly running on 6/7 cyls. Primary cause was HG failure on the passenger side bank. One of the head bolts hadn't been torqued properly at some point in the past. Secondary factors were a couple of burnt exhaust valves and some cam and tappet wear, although this wasn't excessive.
Q2) More than the 48k miles that mine had done! Quite early to have had cam wear. The car had 2 previous owners, full TVR service history. Having said that, who knows how the car was actually treated in the 10 years before I bought it?
Q3) Cams can wear quite rapidly once they start to 'go'. Symptoms of a badly worn cam can include rough idling, and a reluctance to rev much past 5000rpm or so. Power loss can be quite insidious, though, rather than sudden. As far as rolling roads go, as you'll know a lot of TVR engines can be down on TVR's claimed power/torque figures for a whole host of reasons, not just cam wear. The fact that it's a Tuesday, for example.
Q4) I went for a full rebuild with a well-renowned TVR specialist in the south. It was around £3500 inc VAT. New cam & lifters, blocks/heads faced, bore liners machined, new oil seals etc, new big-end bearings, new timing chain, other parts i.e. oil pump checked for wear. I decided to get the bottom-end done as well for piece of mind, even though the crank & rod bearings were in reasonable condition. Cam replacement alone ISTR being around £1k or so. The actual engine build took a couple of weeks.
Q1) Mine went from 'healthy' to suddenly running on 6/7 cyls. Primary cause was HG failure on the passenger side bank. One of the head bolts hadn't been torqued properly at some point in the past. Secondary factors were a couple of burnt exhaust valves and some cam and tappet wear, although this wasn't excessive.
Q2) More than the 48k miles that mine had done! Quite early to have had cam wear. The car had 2 previous owners, full TVR service history. Having said that, who knows how the car was actually treated in the 10 years before I bought it?
Q3) Cams can wear quite rapidly once they start to 'go'. Symptoms of a badly worn cam can include rough idling, and a reluctance to rev much past 5000rpm or so. Power loss can be quite insidious, though, rather than sudden. As far as rolling roads go, as you'll know a lot of TVR engines can be down on TVR's claimed power/torque figures for a whole host of reasons, not just cam wear. The fact that it's a Tuesday, for example.
Q4) I went for a full rebuild with a well-renowned TVR specialist in the south. It was around £3500 inc VAT. New cam & lifters, blocks/heads faced, bore liners machined, new oil seals etc, new big-end bearings, new timing chain, other parts i.e. oil pump checked for wear. I decided to get the bottom-end done as well for piece of mind, even though the crank & rod bearings were in reasonable condition. Cam replacement alone ISTR being around £1k or so. The actual engine build took a couple of weeks.
speedtwelve said:
Had my 4.0 RV8 rebuilt last year.
Q1) Mine went from 'healthy' to suddenly running on 6/7 cyls. Primary cause was HG failure on the passenger side bank. One of the head bolts hadn't been torqued properly at some point in the past. Secondary factors were a couple of burnt exhaust valves and some cam and tappet wear, although this wasn't excessive.
Q2) More than the 48k miles that mine had done! Quite early to have had cam wear. The car had 2 previous owners, full TVR service history. Having said that, who knows how the car was actually treated in the 10 years before I bought it?
Q3) Cams can wear quite rapidly once they start to 'go'. Symptoms of a badly worn cam can include rough idling, and a reluctance to rev much past 5000rpm or so. Power loss can be quite insidious, though, rather than sudden. As far as rolling roads go, as you'll know a lot of TVR engines can be down on TVR's claimed power/torque figures for a whole host of reasons, not just cam wear. The fact that it's a Tuesday, for example.
Q4) I went for a full rebuild with a well-renowned TVR specialist in the south. It was around £3500 inc VAT. New cam & lifters, blocks/heads faced, bore liners machined, new oil seals etc, new big-end bearings, new timing chain, other parts i.e. oil pump checked for wear. I decided to get the bottom-end done as well for piece of mind, even though the crank & rod bearings were in reasonable condition. Cam replacement alone ISTR being around £1k or so. The actual engine build took a couple of weeks.
Thanks for the response.Q1) Mine went from 'healthy' to suddenly running on 6/7 cyls. Primary cause was HG failure on the passenger side bank. One of the head bolts hadn't been torqued properly at some point in the past. Secondary factors were a couple of burnt exhaust valves and some cam and tappet wear, although this wasn't excessive.
Q2) More than the 48k miles that mine had done! Quite early to have had cam wear. The car had 2 previous owners, full TVR service history. Having said that, who knows how the car was actually treated in the 10 years before I bought it?
Q3) Cams can wear quite rapidly once they start to 'go'. Symptoms of a badly worn cam can include rough idling, and a reluctance to rev much past 5000rpm or so. Power loss can be quite insidious, though, rather than sudden. As far as rolling roads go, as you'll know a lot of TVR engines can be down on TVR's claimed power/torque figures for a whole host of reasons, not just cam wear. The fact that it's a Tuesday, for example.
Q4) I went for a full rebuild with a well-renowned TVR specialist in the south. It was around £3500 inc VAT. New cam & lifters, blocks/heads faced, bore liners machined, new oil seals etc, new big-end bearings, new timing chain, other parts i.e. oil pump checked for wear. I decided to get the bottom-end done as well for piece of mind, even though the crank & rod bearings were in reasonable condition. Cam replacement alone ISTR being around £1k or so. The actual engine build took a couple of weeks.
Does your new engine feel miles better than the old one? Or is it just like the old one used to be before the problems occured?
I have just got my Chimaera 450 back after rebuild. My car had done nearly 80k. Have to run it in for 1000 miles then will be able to start driving it properly again. Not driven mine for 4 months so hard to tell how much faster it is, but i hope it is faster now! will get it on a dyno, but didnt do it before so will not know actual improvement figures.
Mine got rebuilt as has warped head which enabled water to get into the oil over the seal, the heads are aluminium and can warp over time not sure if mine was caused by the otter switch failing which meant the fans didnt come on and car overheated.
I dont think mine had ever had a new cam and it was really worn so should be noticably faster. Before it was slower than some 400 cars when i have been out driving, so thought it needed doing. I might have been able to get away without a full rebuild but i had various oil leaks including a bad Valley gasket leak so just decided to get a full rebuild then hopefully i dont have to worry about the engine for a long time!
The valley gasket is prone to leaking and also the crank seal can go which will ruin your clutch. Mine had a new clutch while it was done as easier to do when engine out and saves labour cost of getting it done later, think mine was on original clutch too.
COst difficult to say as i have a large amount of other work done at the same time but prob about £3500.
Mine got rebuilt as has warped head which enabled water to get into the oil over the seal, the heads are aluminium and can warp over time not sure if mine was caused by the otter switch failing which meant the fans didnt come on and car overheated.
I dont think mine had ever had a new cam and it was really worn so should be noticably faster. Before it was slower than some 400 cars when i have been out driving, so thought it needed doing. I might have been able to get away without a full rebuild but i had various oil leaks including a bad Valley gasket leak so just decided to get a full rebuild then hopefully i dont have to worry about the engine for a long time!
The valley gasket is prone to leaking and also the crank seal can go which will ruin your clutch. Mine had a new clutch while it was done as easier to do when engine out and saves labour cost of getting it done later, think mine was on original clutch too.
COst difficult to say as i have a large amount of other work done at the same time but prob about £3500.
The RV8 engine is quite a simple one that had most of the bugs sorted out before TVR started using it in EFi guise.
I had a Rover SD1 Vanden Plas EFi which had > 130,000 miles on the original engine before I gave it away because the body needed work. The engine had started to get tired and it used a bit of oil - but I never checked the camshaft. This engine was close in spec. to the standard 350i engines.
I have had a 390 SE from new and the oil-pump/distributor drive wore prematurely (probably because the factory fitted an oil rad without a thermostat so the oil was always super viscous), the oil-pump problems probably caused the camshaft to wear early (32,000 miles) and it deposited slivers of metal around the engine which necessitated big-end and main bearing shell changes - but the actual crankshaft measured up to spec. It has since done another 30,000 miles without a problem.
Most of the engine modifications done since the early TVRs have been to cope with higher performance/capacity and some have brought problems of their own - but a beefed-up cross-bolted crankshaft can be a big bonus. The biggest standard change was to the serpentine front cover (in around 1990 I think?) which changed the water pump and a few other things.
These engines thrive on high oil flow not pressure and early engines were designed and built for 20W50 oils, standard oils with frequent changes are best for lightly used road cars. The engine can suffer from "black death" sludge if the changes are neglected, look for a light brown cast inside the oil filler.
Clean the crankshaft filter at regular intervals, the crankcase on a healthy engine is supposed to be a bit below atmospheric as the fumes are sucked into the engine and burnt, if the crankshaft filter is gummed up with oil then the piston rings may be worn allowing blowby - or maybe the feed from the crankcase into the inlet is blocked with "mayonnaise".
Russ
I had a Rover SD1 Vanden Plas EFi which had > 130,000 miles on the original engine before I gave it away because the body needed work. The engine had started to get tired and it used a bit of oil - but I never checked the camshaft. This engine was close in spec. to the standard 350i engines.
I have had a 390 SE from new and the oil-pump/distributor drive wore prematurely (probably because the factory fitted an oil rad without a thermostat so the oil was always super viscous), the oil-pump problems probably caused the camshaft to wear early (32,000 miles) and it deposited slivers of metal around the engine which necessitated big-end and main bearing shell changes - but the actual crankshaft measured up to spec. It has since done another 30,000 miles without a problem.
Most of the engine modifications done since the early TVRs have been to cope with higher performance/capacity and some have brought problems of their own - but a beefed-up cross-bolted crankshaft can be a big bonus. The biggest standard change was to the serpentine front cover (in around 1990 I think?) which changed the water pump and a few other things.
These engines thrive on high oil flow not pressure and early engines were designed and built for 20W50 oils, standard oils with frequent changes are best for lightly used road cars. The engine can suffer from "black death" sludge if the changes are neglected, look for a light brown cast inside the oil filler.
Clean the crankshaft filter at regular intervals, the crankcase on a healthy engine is supposed to be a bit below atmospheric as the fumes are sucked into the engine and burnt, if the crankshaft filter is gummed up with oil then the piston rings may be worn allowing blowby - or maybe the feed from the crankcase into the inlet is blocked with "mayonnaise".
Russ
FreeLitres said:
Thanks for the response.
Does your new engine feel miles better than the old one? Or is it just like the old one used to be before the problems occured?
The 'new' engine doesn't feel markedly better, but I reckon it had a pretty healthy power-output for a Chimaera 400 before the HG failed. I came from a low-miles S2000 when I got the TVR, and even before rebuild I reckon the Chimaera had slightly more go than the S2000 had when in VTEC. It was comparable to a mate's Chim 430 (itself down on power, with 225 bhp @ fly), and not significantly slower than another's Chim 450.Does your new engine feel miles better than the old one? Or is it just like the old one used to be before the problems occured?
Piece of mind is the main benefit now. I shouldn't have to worry about oil leaks, big-end bearing failure, leaky exhaust manifolds, water pump failure, as all have been addressed along with having a fresh cam etc. I occasionally track the car, and it is driven quite hard on the road, so I'm not worried about the engine letting go when giving it beans, which was always at the back of my mind before.
Barkychoc said:
I think the biggest cam killer is infrequent use - the oil feed to the cam is not great and the longer it is stood the drier it will be when started. Frequent use will mean a bit of residual oil hanging around and quicker lubrication from cold IMHO anyway.
As Chris says, the 'Garage Queens' tend to suffer from early'ish cam failure.IIRC, it's the cam lobes for cylinder #7 that wear soonest because of the oiling issues stated above.
When I had my 450, it was still pulling well at 52K miles.
I understand the symptoms of worn cam is a running out of 'puff' at higher revs - which makes sense. However, that doesn't mean the car is undrivable - just a reduction in performance & I guess a waste of fuel.
As you say, the RV8 is pretty robust and you'll see several cars on PH that have 100,000 mile plus - and some without any work done to them. Alright, those cars may have had more frequent oil changes - but they are not NASA technology!
Nick
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