Preemptive rebuild or wait for failure
Discussion
Does anyone rebuild their sp6 engine as a matter of course in hope to prevent breakdown failure.
Just asking as I hear a lot of talk about rebuilds and wasn't sure if it was all due to the engines having went to an early grave or just good maintenance practice.
I come from a marine engineering background using big diesels and we rebuild based on the hours a component has been in service in an engine before failure or fatigue occurs.
Just asking as I hear a lot of talk about rebuilds and wasn't sure if it was all due to the engines having went to an early grave or just good maintenance practice.
I come from a marine engineering background using big diesels and we rebuild based on the hours a component has been in service in an engine before failure or fatigue occurs.
The S6's flaws are well-documented but later factory engines were certainly better than the early ones. With the warranty now offered by places like TVR Power and the improvements/refinements that they and other engine builders have made there are now various safety nets if you do decide on a rebuild - if that peace of mind of important to you and you have the spare cash then good luck to you...
For me it's a case of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it', however if the result of a service / diagnostic was that a rebuild was required, then a rebuild it would be...
For me it's a case of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it', however if the result of a service / diagnostic was that a rebuild was required, then a rebuild it would be...
nakedguy said:
Does anyone rebuild their sp6 engine as a matter of course in hope to prevent breakdown failure.
Just asking as I hear a lot of talk about rebuilds and wasn't sure if it was all due to the engines having went to an early grave or just good maintenance practice.
I come from a marine engineering background using big diesels and we rebuild based on the hours a component has been in service in an engine before failure or fatigue occurs.
Yes I had a preemptive rebuild and upgrade to 4.0L Red Rose as a preventative because my Tamora is a 2002 one and it had done 21,000 miles. I had the rebuild/upgrade done at Dulfords in 2007 and have done 20,000 miles since. As it happens my finger followers on my original 3.6L engine were well worn.Just asking as I hear a lot of talk about rebuilds and wasn't sure if it was all due to the engines having went to an early grave or just good maintenance practice.
I come from a marine engineering background using big diesels and we rebuild based on the hours a component has been in service in an engine before failure or fatigue occurs.
Stripping inspecting and refreshing engines is common practise to those who race engines. It provides very cheap insurance in terms of identifying problems before they become failures.
For a road driven car with known design issues, how often would depend on how many miles per annum, how hard, known history etc.
A basic re-fresh may involve new shells, rings and inspecting all journals for wear etc.
How much people are prepared to pay for this over and above waiting and hoping is one for personal choice.
What is known is that Blocks and Cranks and head castings are limited for SP 6 and AJP engines, So the better you look after your engine the longer it will last.
The amount of people who won't spend a grand on a re-fresh but will pay a small fortune for leather bits and shiny bobs always surprises me.
N.
For a road driven car with known design issues, how often would depend on how many miles per annum, how hard, known history etc.
A basic re-fresh may involve new shells, rings and inspecting all journals for wear etc.
How much people are prepared to pay for this over and above waiting and hoping is one for personal choice.
What is known is that Blocks and Cranks and head castings are limited for SP 6 and AJP engines, So the better you look after your engine the longer it will last.
The amount of people who won't spend a grand on a re-fresh but will pay a small fortune for leather bits and shiny bobs always surprises me.
N.
heightswitch said:
Stripping inspecting and refreshing engines is common practise to those who race engines. It provides very cheap insurance in terms of identifying problems before they become failures.
For a road driven car with known design issues, how often would depend on how many miles per annum, how hard, known history etc.
A basic re-fresh may involve new shells, rings and inspecting all journals for wear etc.
How much people are prepared to pay for this over and above waiting and hoping is one for personal choice.
What is known is that Blocks and Cranks and head castings are limited for SP 6 and AJP engines, So the better you look after your engine the longer it will last.
The amount of people who won't spend a grand on a re-fresh but will pay a small fortune for leather bits and shiny bobs always surprises me.
N.
Trouble is a grand barely gets the engine out and back in on SP6.For a road driven car with known design issues, how often would depend on how many miles per annum, how hard, known history etc.
A basic re-fresh may involve new shells, rings and inspecting all journals for wear etc.
How much people are prepared to pay for this over and above waiting and hoping is one for personal choice.
What is known is that Blocks and Cranks and head castings are limited for SP 6 and AJP engines, So the better you look after your engine the longer it will last.
The amount of people who won't spend a grand on a re-fresh but will pay a small fortune for leather bits and shiny bobs always surprises me.
N.
I am trying to get my head around notes and comments I have read in SP6 engined advertised cars.
At which point do the engine builders decide to do a full engine rebuild as opposed to a head rebuild only? Do you rebuild the whole engine as a precaution, or only when bits of swarf is found in the oil? Is mileage a consideration when you make the decision or is it condition?
Most comments I have read on PH suggest a Sp6 with say 40k miles without work is a time bomb, yet there are cars that have done 60k before needing work. Could an inspection give you a good indication of engine health/longevity?
I am trying to avoid a situation when one buys a car with a head rebuild when the engine is going to need engine work inevitably - is it worth/safe (ish) to buy such a car or should one only consider a car with full rebuild?
Thanks & sorry for the slight hijack.
At which point do the engine builders decide to do a full engine rebuild as opposed to a head rebuild only? Do you rebuild the whole engine as a precaution, or only when bits of swarf is found in the oil? Is mileage a consideration when you make the decision or is it condition?
Most comments I have read on PH suggest a Sp6 with say 40k miles without work is a time bomb, yet there are cars that have done 60k before needing work. Could an inspection give you a good indication of engine health/longevity?
I am trying to avoid a situation when one buys a car with a head rebuild when the engine is going to need engine work inevitably - is it worth/safe (ish) to buy such a car or should one only consider a car with full rebuild?
Thanks & sorry for the slight hijack.
..."the question you gotta ask is do ya feel lucky?"
Because, with a typical mode of Sp6 failure, a top end failure can lead to the need for bottom end rebuild. A follower / cam wears, shim pops out, makes its way through the engine, typically gets stuck in the oil scavenge pump housing, jams the pump, snaps the chain, no oil pressure.
If you stop it quick, you may be OK, if you dont, you will need one helluva lot more components to put it right.
My advice is get an engine checked thoroughly, If a shim pops, your probably looking at a bottom end rebuild due to debris contamination, possibly new engine block if it jams in scavenge pump housing. If you get to the no oil pressure stage you could seize the engine...the components list at that point is scary.
I have also seen piston rings shot at 30k miles, worn crank bearings, tired valve guides & stems seals etc etc, and although not a 'failure' as such...they can all require an iminent rebuild unless you have stocks in an oil company (...other than BP...)
Because, with a typical mode of Sp6 failure, a top end failure can lead to the need for bottom end rebuild. A follower / cam wears, shim pops out, makes its way through the engine, typically gets stuck in the oil scavenge pump housing, jams the pump, snaps the chain, no oil pressure.
If you stop it quick, you may be OK, if you dont, you will need one helluva lot more components to put it right.
My advice is get an engine checked thoroughly, If a shim pops, your probably looking at a bottom end rebuild due to debris contamination, possibly new engine block if it jams in scavenge pump housing. If you get to the no oil pressure stage you could seize the engine...the components list at that point is scary.
I have also seen piston rings shot at 30k miles, worn crank bearings, tired valve guides & stems seals etc etc, and although not a 'failure' as such...they can all require an iminent rebuild unless you have stocks in an oil company (...other than BP...)
You dont get a warranttee for only a top end rebuild.
Point made to me was that all the crap from the worn valve guides etc migrates down to the bottom end and so will be causing similar degree of wear down there.
I have been thinking of a rebuild for my Mk2 Tuscan having had my Mk1 Tuscan done previously and been very happy with the results but having just complete a second trip to Germany and second trip to Spain in the last 12 months, the engine feels and sounds just the same. The service report with shim adjustments etc still sound OK so I think that I may as well wait untill there are some indicators.
PS - the MK2 has now complete 40k miles.
Point made to me was that all the crap from the worn valve guides etc migrates down to the bottom end and so will be causing similar degree of wear down there.
I have been thinking of a rebuild for my Mk2 Tuscan having had my Mk1 Tuscan done previously and been very happy with the results but having just complete a second trip to Germany and second trip to Spain in the last 12 months, the engine feels and sounds just the same. The service report with shim adjustments etc still sound OK so I think that I may as well wait untill there are some indicators.
PS - the MK2 has now complete 40k miles.
I had a bottom end rebuild on mine at 8500 miles done by TVR Power and covered under my purchase warranty. At the time I was offered the chance to pay the extra and have a full rebuild done, instead I asked Dom to inspect the already stripped engine and offer his opinion on the top end to which he said everything looked fine.
18 months later I'm on 19'500 miles, the engine is still strong as an Ox, uses no oil and has practically zero adjustment on the valves at each service (I get them done/checked every 6k instead of 12). Personally I'd rather keep the cash in the bank for proper emergencies than spend it on something that just doesn't need doing. Plus when/if it does Powers 4.5 will be top of the list...
18 months later I'm on 19'500 miles, the engine is still strong as an Ox, uses no oil and has practically zero adjustment on the valves at each service (I get them done/checked every 6k instead of 12). Personally I'd rather keep the cash in the bank for proper emergencies than spend it on something that just doesn't need doing. Plus when/if it does Powers 4.5 will be top of the list...
I was a bit flippant with my reply which prob didnt help!!
I think the main message i was trying to make is that you should get the engine inspected, the top end can be checked without removing the engine.
If the wear on the followers and cams is OK, you could be fine for many years. There are several original sp6's in this position with no impending doom or rebuild!
Only if things were wearing badly or the engine was consuming lots of oil would i consider a preemptive build.
I think the main message i was trying to make is that you should get the engine inspected, the top end can be checked without removing the engine.
If the wear on the followers and cams is OK, you could be fine for many years. There are several original sp6's in this position with no impending doom or rebuild!
Only if things were wearing badly or the engine was consuming lots of oil would i consider a preemptive build.
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