TVR Ownership, pipe dream or reality?
Discussion
I'll start by apologising folks as I'm sure this sort of question has been ask umpteen times before.
A bit about me, I'm 35, married with 2 little girls, I have ridden motorbikes for the past 10 years and had my car licence for the last 18. I've done a fair few track days and visit the Nurburgring 2 or 3 times a year for a blast.
I'm currently based in Germany, but will be moving back to Blighty in Feb next year. At present I'm driving around in a Jaguar XFS and the better half has an S-Max. (bear with me, I'm getting to the point soon!)
We had a chat a few weeks ago and have come to the conclusion that we don't need 2 full size cars when back in the UK and she came up with an idea that I sell the XF and get myself a weekender car.
For the past week or so I've been drooling over a 2007 XKR convertible and was almost ready to sign.....Until a mate emailed a picture of a Sag to me.
I reverted to being ten years old again, never has a car made me feel all giggly like that picture did! So my attention has now been drawn towards TVR and their offerings.
I now have 3 cars in my interest scope:
Sagaris
Tuscan
T350
My budget will be £35K, I've checked the insurance side for all 3 and that's fine, couldn't give a dam about Tax or MPG as this will be my grin car.
So my questions are:
A works colleague has had a chat with me today about how dangerous the TVRs are what with all that power and no ABS, DSC etc
...Yes I know, its all about that right foot and not driving beyond your abilities, but how usable are they? Can I drive one in the wet and get to my destination without soiling the seat?
Reliability, I've heard all of the horror stories about reliability etc and I've also had a chat with a couple of dealers, the consensus seems to be that the newer the car I can get the better and that most of the build problems would have been sorted by the time I get my grubby mits on it. So, will I be shelling out to a bottomless pit or should I be fairly safe and just need to replace the standard consumables? I've been briefed that services are between £600-£1000 for majors?
Are there any big expensive services at specific mileage points on any of these cars? A friend was close to buying an old Lotus a few years back and found out the it was due a major service compromising almost and engine rebuild costing best part of £4K. Anything like that on TVRs?
Unfortunately being in Germany, I can't easily attend any TVR meets and visit dealers yet, but I shall endeavour to do so when I come over in July, just wanted a heads up.
So, that's about all for now, thanks for your time and who knows, I may even be giving advice to someone asking the same bone questions next year!
Cheers Benn.
A bit about me, I'm 35, married with 2 little girls, I have ridden motorbikes for the past 10 years and had my car licence for the last 18. I've done a fair few track days and visit the Nurburgring 2 or 3 times a year for a blast.
I'm currently based in Germany, but will be moving back to Blighty in Feb next year. At present I'm driving around in a Jaguar XFS and the better half has an S-Max. (bear with me, I'm getting to the point soon!)
We had a chat a few weeks ago and have come to the conclusion that we don't need 2 full size cars when back in the UK and she came up with an idea that I sell the XF and get myself a weekender car.
For the past week or so I've been drooling over a 2007 XKR convertible and was almost ready to sign.....Until a mate emailed a picture of a Sag to me.
I reverted to being ten years old again, never has a car made me feel all giggly like that picture did! So my attention has now been drawn towards TVR and their offerings.
I now have 3 cars in my interest scope:
Sagaris
Tuscan
T350
My budget will be £35K, I've checked the insurance side for all 3 and that's fine, couldn't give a dam about Tax or MPG as this will be my grin car.
So my questions are:
A works colleague has had a chat with me today about how dangerous the TVRs are what with all that power and no ABS, DSC etc
...Yes I know, its all about that right foot and not driving beyond your abilities, but how usable are they? Can I drive one in the wet and get to my destination without soiling the seat? Reliability, I've heard all of the horror stories about reliability etc and I've also had a chat with a couple of dealers, the consensus seems to be that the newer the car I can get the better and that most of the build problems would have been sorted by the time I get my grubby mits on it. So, will I be shelling out to a bottomless pit or should I be fairly safe and just need to replace the standard consumables? I've been briefed that services are between £600-£1000 for majors?
Are there any big expensive services at specific mileage points on any of these cars? A friend was close to buying an old Lotus a few years back and found out the it was due a major service compromising almost and engine rebuild costing best part of £4K. Anything like that on TVRs?
Unfortunately being in Germany, I can't easily attend any TVR meets and visit dealers yet, but I shall endeavour to do so when I come over in July, just wanted a heads up.
So, that's about all for now, thanks for your time and who knows, I may even be giving advice to someone asking the same bone questions next year!
Cheers Benn.
With your available budget I'd be having a chat with Jason at STR8SIX ( www.str8six.co.uk ) or Dom at TVR Power ( www.tvrpower.co.uk )
Both have superb reputations for their engine rebuilds (speed 6 engines more fragile than others, that was polite of me
) and back up their work with warranties.
Only my opinion here but with the money you have to spend I would be confident that either of these two guys would be able to supply exactly what you want
Both have superb reputations for their engine rebuilds (speed 6 engines more fragile than others, that was polite of me
) and back up their work with warranties.Only my opinion here but with the money you have to spend I would be confident that either of these two guys would be able to supply exactly what you want
Take your pick! Like the last poster said, at your budget you will have your pick of late model cars so little to worry about.
You rode a bike for 10 years, not aware they had TC/ABS/Airbags etc until recently (not airbags obviously!) and your still here so thats that excuse out the window.
Go on, you know you want to.
You rode a bike for 10 years, not aware they had TC/ABS/Airbags etc until recently (not airbags obviously!) and your still here so thats that excuse out the window.
Go on, you know you want to.
zx10ben said:
XKR convertible and was almost ready to sign
I did exactly the same!
I now have 3 cars in my interest scope
Sagaris
Tuscan
T350
All within budget
Can I drive one in the wet and get to my destination without soiling the seat?
Easier than on a bike
Reliability
Always a risk with any car, my service costs come in double to original quote. Due probably to foot in the door quoting and a few extras but not excessive.
Are there any big expensive services
6k and 12k, £500 to £1000 ish.
Unfortunately being in Germany, I can't easily attend any TVR meets and visit dealers yet, but I shall endeavour to do so when I come over in July,
Where are you coming back to?
I did exactly the same!
I now have 3 cars in my interest scope
Sagaris
Tuscan
T350
All within budget
Can I drive one in the wet and get to my destination without soiling the seat?
Easier than on a bike
Reliability
Always a risk with any car, my service costs come in double to original quote. Due probably to foot in the door quoting and a few extras but not excessive.
Are there any big expensive services
6k and 12k, £500 to £1000 ish.
Unfortunately being in Germany, I can't easily attend any TVR meets and visit dealers yet, but I shall endeavour to do so when I come over in July,
Where are you coming back to?
With 35k in your sky rocket, you must consider this
I know i would
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1666071.htm
I know i would
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1666071.htm
In July were picking up the S-Max from Kent, then I shall be down south, Bournemouth for a couple of weeks. When we come back to the UK in Feb I imagine we will be back East Anglia way.
I was last there about 10 or so years ago and always used to drive past Kerridges TVR/Noble of Needham Market dealership and looked longingly through their showroom windows, and now typically I am in a position to buy and they're no longer built!
I think the main thing to do is actually get behind the wheel of them and see what their like. I spoke to Mr Kerridge today and he has a 350 and a Tuscon that he was more than happy to let me have a jolly in when I come over, but I will admit it was the Sag that blew me away, even had the other half in awe, but then again things are different in the flesh, so will have to see.
I'll give TVRPower and Str8 a tinkle and see what they have to say too.
Sorry to lower the tone, but is there any way to have traction control or ABS fitted after market?
I know this all these questions might seem a tad wet, but having had cars from new/nearly new for the past 10 or so years, the thought of not having that warranty backup is a little unnerving, but hey, I suppose that's half the fun eh!
I was last there about 10 or so years ago and always used to drive past Kerridges TVR/Noble of Needham Market dealership and looked longingly through their showroom windows, and now typically I am in a position to buy and they're no longer built!
I think the main thing to do is actually get behind the wheel of them and see what their like. I spoke to Mr Kerridge today and he has a 350 and a Tuscon that he was more than happy to let me have a jolly in when I come over, but I will admit it was the Sag that blew me away, even had the other half in awe, but then again things are different in the flesh, so will have to see.
I'll give TVRPower and Str8 a tinkle and see what they have to say too.
Sorry to lower the tone, but is there any way to have traction control or ABS fitted after market?
I know this all these questions might seem a tad wet, but having had cars from new/nearly new for the past 10 or so years, the thought of not having that warranty backup is a little unnerving, but hey, I suppose that's half the fun eh!
Gray101, thanks, but its the more outlandish styling that get my blood pumping.
But saying that, I do like the idea of having the 2 rear seats although I would imagine they are similar to the XK's rear seats or should I say shelf!
Not wanting to sound too much like a heathen and my apologies to die hard TVR fans, but apart from the Last Cerb being the last one, what else is special about it?
But saying that, I do like the idea of having the 2 rear seats although I would imagine they are similar to the XK's rear seats or should I say shelf!
Not wanting to sound too much like a heathen and my apologies to die hard TVR fans, but apart from the Last Cerb being the last one, what else is special about it?
zx10ben said:
Gray101, thanks, but its the more outlandish styling that get my blood pumping.
But saying that, I do like the idea of having the 2 rear seats although I would imagine they are similar to the XK's rear seats or should I say shelf!
Not wanting to sound too much like a heathen and my apologies to die hard TVR fans, but apart from the Last Cerb being the last one, what else is special about it?
Im not sure of its spec, but ive seen it up close and its jaw droping good.But saying that, I do like the idea of having the 2 rear seats although I would imagine they are similar to the XK's rear seats or should I say shelf!
Not wanting to sound too much like a heathen and my apologies to die hard TVR fans, but apart from the Last Cerb being the last one, what else is special about it?
Also ive tested the XFR and XKR both with 500 bhp + on tap on a race track, and there no were near as quick as my 97 plate cerb, in fact i was disapointed in there lack of power
So dont dismiss the last cerb straight away, but your right about the stile, the cerb is not as bold and aggresive looking as a Sag
Hi, I don't know what part of Germany you are based, but a few of us are going over to Spa in October
(See thread here http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... Europe trip '10)
to watch some racing and do a trackday. There will be an assortment of Tiv's there (mainly Cerbs) and at least 1 Sag. If you fancied coming over you would be guaranteed a few passenger laps.
Graham
(See thread here http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... Europe trip '10)
to watch some racing and do a trackday. There will be an assortment of Tiv's there (mainly Cerbs) and at least 1 Sag. If you fancied coming over you would be guaranteed a few passenger laps.
Graham
zx10ben said:
Sorry to lower the tone, but is there any way to have traction control or ABS fitted after market?
TBH you don't really need them as long, as you have already identified, as you drive them properly. You can't retrofit ABS at sensible costs but there are some aftermarket TC systems if you really wanted it. In their absence my driving awareness has improved massively since I bought my Griffith as you become more aware of road conditions, braking distances etc, pretty much, again as someone else has said, like riding a bike.Doing a driving course like the ones offered by Ride Drive go along way to being a sensible upgrade to your skills.
Hello Benn,
Obviously the choices you have highlighted are the Speed Six engined TVR's. If you find a good one and treat it well, it dispels most of the uninformed 'pub' myths that surround TVR (Speed Six) ownership.
With your budget, Sagaris will chew up all of your £35K, the top end of T350's will be £20-£25K, the top end of Tuscan's will be anywere between £20-35K (dependant on year, model ie. 2006 Tuscan 2 S will be top whack).
My list would go Sag, T350, Tuscan - personal choice of course! However, if I was being ultra-financially minded, I would go for the best T350 and save myself £10-15K - get one in the right colour and they are still a massive head-turner with as much 'real world' performance as the Sag.
I'm your age and have a T350T; weighing up similar options as you before my purchase. Taking each of your questions:
USEABILITY
Mine has been a daily driver, including winter (in all but the worst conditions!) and has been great. In the dry it is awe-inspiring and easy to drive - acceleration and brakes (not to mention noise!). Extreme care needs to be taken on snow and sensible caution needs to be exercised in the wet - as with any car with 350-400BHP going through the rear wheels, safety aids or not - drive it like a lunatic in poor conditions and most cars will bite!
My own opinion (having test driven all 3 models) is that more respect needs to be taken with the Tuscan - it is 'twitchier' (well sorted Geo set-up as previously mentioned will help) - the acceleration on the S is comically fast however!
Load space is fine (T350 perspective) for a weeks break away (soft bags). Do get the chasis checked and wax-oiled before winter - money well spent if you are driving all year round.
Speed Six's benefit from being driven - locked up in a garage for 3-4 months of the year isn't the best IMHO.
RELIABILITY
Sagaris, being the newest model seem to have very few issues. With the T350 and Tuscan, I would go post-2003 if no engine rebuild (or get a good '2003' price and vector in £3-6K contingency for this possibility). 2004 models onwards seemed to have most of the very early internal engine problems sorted. Don't discount a 2003 'T' model that has had an engine rebuild from someone reputable (TVR Power / Str8 six etc) and has been generally well cared for as a car. Buy on condition and overall package, not age. I read everything I could possibly lay my hands on - knowledge is power!
Barring the known and well documented problems with the 2003 and earlier Speed Six lumps, it is a fantastic engine. Most replacement / rebuilt engines (3.6, 4.0, even 4.5 now!) come with a 3 or 5 year unlimited miles guarantee, so it shows the strength of them. Being a race engine in a road car it needs to be warmed up carefully before extending the rev range (plenty of info on PH and TVRCC on how to do this) and for the owner to keep a good check on oil and fluid levels each week.
In my opinion, most problems occur due to people thrashing it from the off, which is just asking for trouble - give it the 15-20 mins of sensible driving it needs each time before opening it up - the 'grin' factor is worth it! Sensible money for supercar performance and a beautiful machine that stands out from the crowd.
SERVICING
Servicing is at 6,000 (mid) and 12,000 (full), so once a year for most owners - most good Independant garages will have a fixed price service, my local specialist is £415 for the 6K and £535 for the 12K - obviously any work on top of that will be additional. A well sorted car shouldn't need that much else done. If you budget £800 and £1K that should cover most surprises. It's actually pretty respectable when compared against other high performance marques (Porsche etc).
CONCLUSION
My two-pence worth - don't rush it, get to know about the cars, test drive plenty, choose carefully, and buy on condition (inc full service history from known TVR specialists), get a good take on how current and previous owners have cared for the car, their knowledge about the model etc and always speak to the garages that have serviced the car throughout its life to check its mechanical history / any foibles.
If you get a well sorted Speed Six - very little on the planet will touch it unless you're paying £100K plus (performance,looks, how it makes you feel).
Go for it, best of luck and enjoy!
Grant
Obviously the choices you have highlighted are the Speed Six engined TVR's. If you find a good one and treat it well, it dispels most of the uninformed 'pub' myths that surround TVR (Speed Six) ownership.
With your budget, Sagaris will chew up all of your £35K, the top end of T350's will be £20-£25K, the top end of Tuscan's will be anywere between £20-35K (dependant on year, model ie. 2006 Tuscan 2 S will be top whack).
My list would go Sag, T350, Tuscan - personal choice of course! However, if I was being ultra-financially minded, I would go for the best T350 and save myself £10-15K - get one in the right colour and they are still a massive head-turner with as much 'real world' performance as the Sag.
I'm your age and have a T350T; weighing up similar options as you before my purchase. Taking each of your questions:
USEABILITY
Mine has been a daily driver, including winter (in all but the worst conditions!) and has been great. In the dry it is awe-inspiring and easy to drive - acceleration and brakes (not to mention noise!). Extreme care needs to be taken on snow and sensible caution needs to be exercised in the wet - as with any car with 350-400BHP going through the rear wheels, safety aids or not - drive it like a lunatic in poor conditions and most cars will bite!
My own opinion (having test driven all 3 models) is that more respect needs to be taken with the Tuscan - it is 'twitchier' (well sorted Geo set-up as previously mentioned will help) - the acceleration on the S is comically fast however!
Load space is fine (T350 perspective) for a weeks break away (soft bags). Do get the chasis checked and wax-oiled before winter - money well spent if you are driving all year round.
Speed Six's benefit from being driven - locked up in a garage for 3-4 months of the year isn't the best IMHO.
RELIABILITY
Sagaris, being the newest model seem to have very few issues. With the T350 and Tuscan, I would go post-2003 if no engine rebuild (or get a good '2003' price and vector in £3-6K contingency for this possibility). 2004 models onwards seemed to have most of the very early internal engine problems sorted. Don't discount a 2003 'T' model that has had an engine rebuild from someone reputable (TVR Power / Str8 six etc) and has been generally well cared for as a car. Buy on condition and overall package, not age. I read everything I could possibly lay my hands on - knowledge is power!
Barring the known and well documented problems with the 2003 and earlier Speed Six lumps, it is a fantastic engine. Most replacement / rebuilt engines (3.6, 4.0, even 4.5 now!) come with a 3 or 5 year unlimited miles guarantee, so it shows the strength of them. Being a race engine in a road car it needs to be warmed up carefully before extending the rev range (plenty of info on PH and TVRCC on how to do this) and for the owner to keep a good check on oil and fluid levels each week.
In my opinion, most problems occur due to people thrashing it from the off, which is just asking for trouble - give it the 15-20 mins of sensible driving it needs each time before opening it up - the 'grin' factor is worth it! Sensible money for supercar performance and a beautiful machine that stands out from the crowd.
SERVICING
Servicing is at 6,000 (mid) and 12,000 (full), so once a year for most owners - most good Independant garages will have a fixed price service, my local specialist is £415 for the 6K and £535 for the 12K - obviously any work on top of that will be additional. A well sorted car shouldn't need that much else done. If you budget £800 and £1K that should cover most surprises. It's actually pretty respectable when compared against other high performance marques (Porsche etc).
CONCLUSION
My two-pence worth - don't rush it, get to know about the cars, test drive plenty, choose carefully, and buy on condition (inc full service history from known TVR specialists), get a good take on how current and previous owners have cared for the car, their knowledge about the model etc and always speak to the garages that have serviced the car throughout its life to check its mechanical history / any foibles.
If you get a well sorted Speed Six - very little on the planet will touch it unless you're paying £100K plus (performance,looks, how it makes you feel).
Go for it, best of luck and enjoy!
Grant
I ran an XKR conv at the same time as a TVR.
The XKR is a lovely car, and has the benefit of being able to get your kids in the back (although, if a weekend car I would argue that that is a hinderance as you'll lose the excuse for some 'me' time).
However, when I needed to get rid of a car to make space for another it was no contest as to which one was gone. Brilliant car, fun to drive but 100% a different experience from a TVR. I never found myself laughing after sticking the jag down a country lane, not even smiling. It was more pleasant in traffic jams though.
At £5k budget, I would be inclined to find a good £20-£25k car Tuscan or T350 and sit on the balance until you decide you want to get a bigger, better engine put in. Unless of course you would find yourself always wondering what a Sag would be like.
The XKR is a lovely car, and has the benefit of being able to get your kids in the back (although, if a weekend car I would argue that that is a hinderance as you'll lose the excuse for some 'me' time).
However, when I needed to get rid of a car to make space for another it was no contest as to which one was gone. Brilliant car, fun to drive but 100% a different experience from a TVR. I never found myself laughing after sticking the jag down a country lane, not even smiling. It was more pleasant in traffic jams though.
At £5k budget, I would be inclined to find a good £20-£25k car Tuscan or T350 and sit on the balance until you decide you want to get a bigger, better engine put in. Unless of course you would find yourself always wondering what a Sag would be like.
zx10ben said:
But saying that, I do like the idea of having the 2 rear seats although I would imagine they are similar to the XK's rear seats or should I say shelf!
Depends on the bendability of the passengers - I had a six footer in the back of mine, along with his 5.5ft girlfriend (her behind me, I'm 6'2") with only a modicum of whining.Thanks for the input folks, just had the better half giving me a selfish lecture on the 2 seater issue, but think I'll be able to talk her round as it will be a replacement for my bike, well that my story and I'm sticking to it! If that doesn't work, then I may have a peek at the Cerb after all.
I spent about half an hour today chatting to Simon at fernhurst TVR and he invited me to come and have a chat and play when I'm over in July, so we'll see what comes then.
I'm currently in Paderborn which is more North West germany, an hour east of Dortmund.
I spent about half an hour today chatting to Simon at fernhurst TVR and he invited me to come and have a chat and play when I'm over in July, so we'll see what comes then.
I'm currently in Paderborn which is more North West germany, an hour east of Dortmund.
zx10ben said:
Gray101, thanks, but its the more outlandish styling that get my blood pumping.
But saying that, I do like the idea of having the 2 rear seats although I would imagine they are similar to the XK's rear seats or should I say shelf!
Not wanting to sound too much like a heathen and my apologies to die hard TVR fans, but apart from the Last Cerb being the last one, what else is special about it?
Apart from being the fastest. Not much!But saying that, I do like the idea of having the 2 rear seats although I would imagine they are similar to the XK's rear seats or should I say shelf!
Not wanting to sound too much like a heathen and my apologies to die hard TVR fans, but apart from the Last Cerb being the last one, what else is special about it?
zx10ben said:
Thanks for the input folks, just had the better half giving me a selfish lecture on the 2 seater issue, but think I'll be able to talk her round as it will be a replacement for my bike, well that my story and I'm sticking to it! If that doesn't work, then I may have a peek at the Cerb after all.
I spent about half an hour today chatting to Simon at fernhurst TVR and he invited me to come and have a chat and play when I'm over in July, so we'll see what comes then.
I'm currently in Paderborn which is more North West germany, an hour east of Dortmund.
I recommend Simon a lot. His knowledge and enthusiasm is great. I bought my Sag (Which is currently up for sale) from him 2 years ago. I spent about half an hour today chatting to Simon at fernhurst TVR and he invited me to come and have a chat and play when I'm over in July, so we'll see what comes then.
I'm currently in Paderborn which is more North West germany, an hour east of Dortmund.
If you drive a Sag you will want one. Its as simple as that. I am 35 and have done many a track day coming from a lotus Elise and karting background. I wanted a tvr when i had a similar budget to you, saw mine and bought it the same day i tested it. As mentioned Sag's seem to be very reliable. In the 2 years of ownership I have had no issues whatsoever.
T350's still look great imo and a lot cheaper than the Sags but I think you'll always be kicking yourself for not getting a Sag when you had the chance.
Good luck with your purchase whatever it will be.
Gray_101 said:
With 35k in your sky rocket, you must consider this
I know i would
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1666071.htm
Agreed!I know i would
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1666071.htm
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