Solar Battery Conditioner / Charger
Discussion
Hello,
I have recently purchased a TVR Griffith 500, unfortunatley I do not have a garage or a drive way so the car is left in a courtyard outside my house.
Ideally I would like to leave the car connected to an Accumate battery conditioner however this is clearly not possible. I am therefore looking into purchasing a suitable Solar Panel which I can leave connected to the car to keep the battery topped up from the drain of the standard TVR alarm / imobiliser and Tracker.
I am planning to purchase a Leven hood cover so the panel must be waterproof as it will be situated on the outside on the windscreen with the cover in place.
I have searched the PH forums and there seems to be a number of different opinions with regards to solar charging.
Does anybody have any experience with this or currently use a solar panel?
I am planning to buy the following:
Solar-Powered 12V 12W Battery Charger
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?moduleno=21785...
Solar Charging Regulator
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=37774
Matthew
I have recently purchased a TVR Griffith 500, unfortunatley I do not have a garage or a drive way so the car is left in a courtyard outside my house.
Ideally I would like to leave the car connected to an Accumate battery conditioner however this is clearly not possible. I am therefore looking into purchasing a suitable Solar Panel which I can leave connected to the car to keep the battery topped up from the drain of the standard TVR alarm / imobiliser and Tracker.
I am planning to purchase a Leven hood cover so the panel must be waterproof as it will be situated on the outside on the windscreen with the cover in place.
I have searched the PH forums and there seems to be a number of different opinions with regards to solar charging.
Does anybody have any experience with this or currently use a solar panel?
I am planning to buy the following:
Solar-Powered 12V 12W Battery Charger
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?moduleno=21785...
Solar Charging Regulator
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=37774
Matthew
I had two in my yacht to keep the battery topped up and to be fair those are the same sized units i had 2 of and would not waste my time with them they need good direct sunlight to make that 12w so your are looking at 2-3 watts max in our dull country most of the winter, i just isolate the battery , lasts all winter and starts first time with this.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Battery-Disconnect-Switch-Is...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Battery-Disconnect-Switch-Is...
Funnily enough I have some samples for test in our next delivery from one of my suppliers.
Amorphous charge panel, with ciggy plug and hard wire connection.
Also charge LED.
As I said, I have to test them first to see if they are as good as they say and I'll put a report up on tvrmonster.com They should be ALOT cheaper than that too. About £20 retail.
Andy
TVRMonster
Amorphous charge panel, with ciggy plug and hard wire connection.
Also charge LED.
As I said, I have to test them first to see if they are as good as they say and I'll put a report up on tvrmonster.com They should be ALOT cheaper than that too. About £20 retail.
Andy
TVRMonster
Thanks for the replies.
Scotty d - thanks for the post, looks like a great product that which I would definatley buy if the car was locked up in a garage. A simple solution to a simple problem. In my current situation I would be very reluctant to disconnect the battery on my car stored outside as then the alarm system would not work which i believe would also have implications with insurance?
Andy - I shall most certainly look forward to you review of the product. I am dubious as to whether a £20 panel would be able to keep up with the demands, but then I am I only going on what other people have said.
According to Autoexpress the average car would need a 6.7watt panel to keep up with battery drain based on the hours of useable sunlight:
Linky
Matthew
Scotty d - thanks for the post, looks like a great product that which I would definatley buy if the car was locked up in a garage. A simple solution to a simple problem. In my current situation I would be very reluctant to disconnect the battery on my car stored outside as then the alarm system would not work which i believe would also have implications with insurance?
Andy - I shall most certainly look forward to you review of the product. I am dubious as to whether a £20 panel would be able to keep up with the demands, but then I am I only going on what other people have said.
According to Autoexpress the average car would need a 6.7watt panel to keep up with battery drain based on the hours of useable sunlight:
Linky
Matthew
True, I need to see how the output stands up in poor light conditions, and how long it will extend the "park up" duration of a Tiv.
Its a trickle charger...not a conditioner (we do those too) and a solar unit that will compete with those doesn't exist yet. The closest are well over £200.
If the unit can match/reduce the battery "park up load" significantly to compensate for the alarm etc, it will be fine for most application. There will always be a trade off.
I'll use my Sprinter Race van as a test vehicle and monitor the battery periodically.
Loads and start cranking should be similar. Not exactly lab conditions...but real world!
cheers
Andy
Its a trickle charger...not a conditioner (we do those too) and a solar unit that will compete with those doesn't exist yet. The closest are well over £200.
If the unit can match/reduce the battery "park up load" significantly to compensate for the alarm etc, it will be fine for most application. There will always be a trade off.
I'll use my Sprinter Race van as a test vehicle and monitor the battery periodically.
Loads and start cranking should be similar. Not exactly lab conditions...but real world!
cheers
Andy
You could measure the alarm drain on the battery by disconnecting the battery, and putting a test meter to measure the current between the battery post and connector. Most mulipupose test meters have a very limited current measuring ability, but at a guess the current draw will be less than 200ma (This would be the equivalent to a 2.4 watt alarm consumption) but proceed with caution. These test MUST be done with the ignition off, unless you want to pop your test meter. Once you know the current drawn, you can then compare this to the current the panel can supply. Example a 12 volt 6 watt panel will produce 6w/12v=.5 amp in BRIGHT sunlight, so this may be just enough to keep the battery charged considering how many hours of sunlight we get in the winter. The biggest problem is the charger must produce a higher voltage than the batteries voltage before any charging takes place, so if it can only produce say 10 volts on a dull day it will have no effect even if the battery is already part discharged at 11 volts. If the panel is big enough to keep a reasonable voltage on a dull day, then when it gets brighter the voltage will rise quite sharply, but lead acid batteries are pretty tough, and even if the panel can get to over 14.5 volts, then the battery will simply gass off the excess power, but the electrolite level will drop and need topping up (when did you last need to do this with alternator electronics?) . Ideally you want a big panel with some sort of voltage regulator on the output, but it wont be a £20 jobbie.
That maplin solar panel is the one I have. No need for a regulator just fit and forget. I just lay mine across the windscreen and feed the cable through the hood velcro into the ciggy lighter.
Works well in summer, but not sure about winter - due to the recent winds I've tucked the panel up in the garage and temporarily wired up the mains battery charger.
You can wall mount the panel and it comes with all the necesary fixings.
Works well in summer, but not sure about winter - due to the recent winds I've tucked the panel up in the garage and temporarily wired up the mains battery charger.
You can wall mount the panel and it comes with all the necesary fixings.
My sympathies to you Matthew,
I had the same problem of no mains power point and the TVR parasitic drain, it nearly drove me mad.
Not sure about how well the 12w one will perform but I have my doubts it will beat the drain in the winter.
Lets face it at best it will only be charging for 8 hours a day this time of year, the drain will then take over for the remaining 16 hours.
I purchased this one:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=22862...
Because I'm cheap.
Predictably it gave chocolate teapot performance.
In the end I decided to bite the bullet and fitted an outside power socket to my parking spot (not my house), I have a Halfords maintenance charger wired in.
I also have a PriorityStart ready to fit, this clever little box of tricks could be your answer.
http://www.noflatbatteries.com/
I have high hopes for the devise, just need the temperature to come up a little before I crawl in the passenger footwell to fit it.
Definitely worth a try if you don't have the luxury of a mains power point.
Why not PM GreenV8S, he has one fitted already.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?h=0...
Good luck, Dave.
I had the same problem of no mains power point and the TVR parasitic drain, it nearly drove me mad.
Not sure about how well the 12w one will perform but I have my doubts it will beat the drain in the winter.
Lets face it at best it will only be charging for 8 hours a day this time of year, the drain will then take over for the remaining 16 hours.
I purchased this one:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=22862...
Because I'm cheap.
Predictably it gave chocolate teapot performance.
In the end I decided to bite the bullet and fitted an outside power socket to my parking spot (not my house), I have a Halfords maintenance charger wired in.
I also have a PriorityStart ready to fit, this clever little box of tricks could be your answer.
http://www.noflatbatteries.com/
I have high hopes for the devise, just need the temperature to come up a little before I crawl in the passenger footwell to fit it.
Definitely worth a try if you don't have the luxury of a mains power point.
Why not PM GreenV8S, he has one fitted already.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?h=0...
Good luck, Dave.
Chimpaholic said:
....charging for 8 hours a day this time of year, the drain will then take over for the remaining 16 hours.
I purchased this one:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=22862...
Because I'm cheap.
Not good for gel batteries apparently - I'm sure this is AGM like the red tops?I purchased this one:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=22862...
Because I'm cheap.
Chimpaholic said:
Predictably it gave chocolate teapot performance.
In the end I decided to bite the bullet and fitted an outside power socket to my parking spot (not my house), I have a Halfords maintenance charger wired in.
I also have a PriorityStart ready to fit, this clever little box of tricks could be your answer.
http://www.noflatbatteries.com/
I have high hopes for the devise, just need the temperature to come up a little before I crawl in the passenger footwell to fit it.
i'm curious about this, and nice find by btw, but if it cuts off the power around 11.9 volts... what happens to the alarm, and entrance to say.. a Cerbera? its all electronic doors boot etc?In the end I decided to bite the bullet and fitted an outside power socket to my parking spot (not my house), I have a Halfords maintenance charger wired in.
I also have a PriorityStart ready to fit, this clever little box of tricks could be your answer.
http://www.noflatbatteries.com/
I have high hopes for the devise, just need the temperature to come up a little before I crawl in the passenger footwell to fit it.
Chimpaholic said:
Definitely worth a try if you don't have the luxury of a mains power point.
Why not PM GreenV8S, he has one fitted already.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?h=0...
Good luck, Dave.
Why not PM GreenV8S, he has one fitted already.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?h=0...
Good luck, Dave.
I also have the same problem. Sag parked in a communal garage with no mains power. Battery will cope for up to two weeks but after that it's dropped too much charge to start. Nightmare.
The 'PriorityStart' device is interesting but again it's basically a battery isolator, albeit a smart one. My concern is the same as dean_ratpac - what happens to the alarm?
It's hinted at on the FAQ page:
How does PriorityStart! provide vehicle security or lift gate protection?
The PriorityStart! not only protects the owner, their time and safety, but it also protects the security system on the vehicle. If you experience a dead battery, the security system or gate lift is inactive. With PriorityStart! if the battery drains slightly below 12 volts it then disconnects the battery, but when the owner or would-be thief opens the door or attempts to start the vehicle, the battery system would be automatically reconnected, thus reconnecting the security system or gate lift.
Question is, what state is the alarm in if the battery has been disconnected and then reconnected. Does it automatically start in an alarmed state (meaning it would go off if broken into and then attempted to start) or is it just going to be the immobiliser that's active?
There's also the same old insurance question - if the cars alarm isnt active when someone breaks in, is your insurance void? I'd imagine so...
The 'PriorityStart' device is interesting but again it's basically a battery isolator, albeit a smart one. My concern is the same as dean_ratpac - what happens to the alarm?
It's hinted at on the FAQ page:
How does PriorityStart! provide vehicle security or lift gate protection?
The PriorityStart! not only protects the owner, their time and safety, but it also protects the security system on the vehicle. If you experience a dead battery, the security system or gate lift is inactive. With PriorityStart! if the battery drains slightly below 12 volts it then disconnects the battery, but when the owner or would-be thief opens the door or attempts to start the vehicle, the battery system would be automatically reconnected, thus reconnecting the security system or gate lift.
Question is, what state is the alarm in if the battery has been disconnected and then reconnected. Does it automatically start in an alarmed state (meaning it would go off if broken into and then attempted to start) or is it just going to be the immobiliser that's active?
There's also the same old insurance question - if the cars alarm isnt active when someone breaks in, is your insurance void? I'd imagine so...
Has anyone considered an auxiliary battery just to power the alarm?
Working on the basis of caravan
auxiliary battery wiring, when the engine is running it engages a relay and allows charging of the auxiliary battery, when ignition off the auxiliary battery is isolated so even if it runs down to nothing it doesn't drain the vehicle battery.
You'll find loads of info if you use Google.
Working on the basis of caravan
auxiliary battery wiring, when the engine is running it engages a relay and allows charging of the auxiliary battery, when ignition off the auxiliary battery is isolated so even if it runs down to nothing it doesn't drain the vehicle battery. You'll find loads of info if you use Google.
Dear all,
When researching the PriorityStart I asked myself (and the guy selling the devise) some of the same questions others are raising above.
Q: When the devise disconnects the battery would I be able to get in?
A: The battery is reconnected when the devise senses a load on the system, its recommended that this should be generated by the driver stepping on the brake peddle. It is felt that the activation of the door solenoids would serve the same purpose as stepping on the brake pedal and should cause the reconnection. This is nice as you are effectively reconnecting the battery from the remote fob.
Q: What will happen to the immobiliser on disconnection and reconnection?
A: Disconnection and reconnection of the battery with effectively reset the immobiliser, pressing the remote fob a second time should disconnect the immobiliser and activate the fuel pump.
Q: What will happen to the alarm on disconnection and reconnection?
A: See what Redseal says above, I believe if you disconnect and reconnect the battery the alarm is reset just like the immobiliser. At worst a second push of the key fob may be required to turn the alarm off in the event of a false activation on first entry.
My point would be that all the above remains untested by myself until I fit the devise.
The answers to my questions are pure speculation at this stage, the TVR alarm & immobiliser system can do some odd things however I believe the activation of the PriorityStart will be no different to disconnecting and reconnecting the battery in the normal way.
When my battery went completely flat (left the headlights on D'oh!) & after I had fully recharged it, the door locks didn't work and neither did the remote fob activation of the immobiliser.
For a few days I had to break in to the car and disconnect the immobiliser by pushing the little immobiliser stick in its hole on the dash.
Worried that I had wrecked the immobiliser system I called Carl Baker.
http://www.tvruk.tv/contactus.cfm
Carl kindly advised me to disconnect and reconnect the battery to reset the alarm & immobiliser system, as soon as I did everything whent back to normal.
The question is; was the fully drained battery the first disconnection and the charging of the battery the first reconnection?
If so it would indicate that two disconnections and reconnections are required to return the alarm & immobiliser system to its normal operating state and the PriorityStart could therefore be more of a problem that a solution.
So in summary I have ended up with more questions than conclusive answers for the PriorityStart.
The only real answer is to fit the damn thing and test it.
I just need the temperature to raise above freezing before I can muster the motivation to crawl into the passenger footwell.
As soon as its installed and tested I will create a new topic called "PriorityStart My Findings".
Best regards to you all & stay warm.
Dave.
When researching the PriorityStart I asked myself (and the guy selling the devise) some of the same questions others are raising above.
Q: When the devise disconnects the battery would I be able to get in?
A: The battery is reconnected when the devise senses a load on the system, its recommended that this should be generated by the driver stepping on the brake peddle. It is felt that the activation of the door solenoids would serve the same purpose as stepping on the brake pedal and should cause the reconnection. This is nice as you are effectively reconnecting the battery from the remote fob.
Q: What will happen to the immobiliser on disconnection and reconnection?
A: Disconnection and reconnection of the battery with effectively reset the immobiliser, pressing the remote fob a second time should disconnect the immobiliser and activate the fuel pump.
Q: What will happen to the alarm on disconnection and reconnection?
A: See what Redseal says above, I believe if you disconnect and reconnect the battery the alarm is reset just like the immobiliser. At worst a second push of the key fob may be required to turn the alarm off in the event of a false activation on first entry.
My point would be that all the above remains untested by myself until I fit the devise.
The answers to my questions are pure speculation at this stage, the TVR alarm & immobiliser system can do some odd things however I believe the activation of the PriorityStart will be no different to disconnecting and reconnecting the battery in the normal way.
When my battery went completely flat (left the headlights on D'oh!) & after I had fully recharged it, the door locks didn't work and neither did the remote fob activation of the immobiliser.
For a few days I had to break in to the car and disconnect the immobiliser by pushing the little immobiliser stick in its hole on the dash.
Worried that I had wrecked the immobiliser system I called Carl Baker.
http://www.tvruk.tv/contactus.cfm
Carl kindly advised me to disconnect and reconnect the battery to reset the alarm & immobiliser system, as soon as I did everything whent back to normal.
The question is; was the fully drained battery the first disconnection and the charging of the battery the first reconnection?
If so it would indicate that two disconnections and reconnections are required to return the alarm & immobiliser system to its normal operating state and the PriorityStart could therefore be more of a problem that a solution.
So in summary I have ended up with more questions than conclusive answers for the PriorityStart.
The only real answer is to fit the damn thing and test it.
I just need the temperature to raise above freezing before I can muster the motivation to crawl into the passenger footwell.
As soon as its installed and tested I will create a new topic called "PriorityStart My Findings".
Best regards to you all & stay warm.
Dave.
Interesting, and I guess that the second disconnect/reset is only required because the battery was not at a correct charge when the initial reset was done.
Anyway, I'd still guess that your insurer won't be happy that the alarm is being disconnected at any time and may raise questions on a claim. Even if it wasn't being used at the time.
"did it disconnect at the time of the theft accidentally?" "faulty unit?""incorrect activation?"
Not trying to queer anyone else's pitch, but I would check with your insurer and would feel sure that you would HAVE to let them know as it would affect Thatcham/Toad ratings as the alarm systenm is being "modified".
Just my humble opinion.
Not a HUGE commercial interest here, but its a question that often raised (ie no power to charge)
Anyway, I'd still guess that your insurer won't be happy that the alarm is being disconnected at any time and may raise questions on a claim. Even if it wasn't being used at the time.
"did it disconnect at the time of the theft accidentally?" "faulty unit?""incorrect activation?"
Not trying to queer anyone else's pitch, but I would check with your insurer and would feel sure that you would HAVE to let them know as it would affect Thatcham/Toad ratings as the alarm systenm is being "modified".
Just my humble opinion.
Not a HUGE commercial interest here, but its a question that often raised (ie no power to charge)
I think the disconnect will only work if you dont leave the alarm on. If it disconnects with the alarm active the alarm will go off using its own internal batteries IME.
Also, if the alarm is isolated as its internal battery goes flat it will randomly go off anyway - so if you are using this solution you'd need to disconnect the alarm siren.
Also, if the alarm is isolated as its internal battery goes flat it will randomly go off anyway - so if you are using this solution you'd need to disconnect the alarm siren.
I fitted a Battery Brain.
http://www.batterybrain.co.uk/
They are basically a remote control battery isolator.
You can leave the car as normal and the Brain will monitor the battery and isolate it if it detects a volt drop.
Or you can activate the brain after you have locked up etc.
The car is basically dead until you again remotely reset the brain, then unlock as normal.
It was excellent and stopped all my flat battery problems I was having when leaving my Tuscan in an airport carpark.
http://www.batterybrain.co.uk/
They are basically a remote control battery isolator.
You can leave the car as normal and the Brain will monitor the battery and isolate it if it detects a volt drop.
Or you can activate the brain after you have locked up etc.
The car is basically dead until you again remotely reset the brain, then unlock as normal.
It was excellent and stopped all my flat battery problems I was having when leaving my Tuscan in an airport carpark.
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