Keep your Tvrs locked up and off the road.
Discussion
I am very sad to hear about the fatal accident in Nottingham,also several serious accidents involving TVRS in this bad weather.If anyone asks the question about them being everyday cars, the answer is no, especially in the icy winter months.Stay safe keep them off the roads and do yourself and your family a big favour.
Edited by 5yearstobuyatvr on Monday 4th January 09:23
Completely agree with you 5years. Why anybody would want to drive any vehicle, let alone a Tiv, when it's freezing and there is snow and ice on the roads, is beyond me. Although I didn't hear any yesterday, when the Police issue advice not to drive, as they did a couple of weeks ago, it's generally for a reason. To recklessly ignore it is to invite trouble. More than that, I think it denotes a selfish attitude: "I pay my road tax blah blah and I'm going to drive come what may." What those unfortunate enough to subsequently have an accident seem to disregard is the affect this will have on the insurance premiums of Tiv owners generally, and on the lives of those who may also be involved in such an accident.
Obviously businesses which depend on customers arriving by car will suffer temporarily if people behave sensibly, but that's surely a small price to pay compared to the alternative.
7.
Obviously businesses which depend on customers arriving by car will suffer temporarily if people behave sensibly, but that's surely a small price to pay compared to the alternative.
7.
Daft advice.
A TVR is what it is. And threads which simply say don't use your TVR in the winter are just daft. Its a lightweight powerful car with no driver aids.
Its only the equivalent of travelling in this weather on a motorcycle. Safer, probably. I don't hear anyone saying never use a motorcycle in winter weather.
The problem is that in dry weather the car is a 'braking' match for most cars out there because of its lightness. I still don't think it competes with an ABS car in any sort of braking competition despite the oft posted thoughts about braking techniques.
In the wet or icy weather it is no match for any other car out there with respect to roadholding or braking by quite some margin. But there is a heavy encouragement in driving to go with the flow of other cars, and therefore drive above the ability of the car.
I don't think people who crash in winter are being reckless with their cars, I think they are just lulled into driving in the normal flow in a car that can't do that in winter.
I drive both my BMW and TVR in the winter. However the reason I drive the TVR less in winter is that its not much fun being a mobile chicaine for other drivers in winter. If I had a clear road I'd probably still use the TVR, but fed up of cars right on my tail going round country bends in the winter because they don't understand that a powerful sports car can't make better progress.
A TVR is what it is. And threads which simply say don't use your TVR in the winter are just daft. Its a lightweight powerful car with no driver aids.
Its only the equivalent of travelling in this weather on a motorcycle. Safer, probably. I don't hear anyone saying never use a motorcycle in winter weather.
The problem is that in dry weather the car is a 'braking' match for most cars out there because of its lightness. I still don't think it competes with an ABS car in any sort of braking competition despite the oft posted thoughts about braking techniques.
In the wet or icy weather it is no match for any other car out there with respect to roadholding or braking by quite some margin. But there is a heavy encouragement in driving to go with the flow of other cars, and therefore drive above the ability of the car.
I don't think people who crash in winter are being reckless with their cars, I think they are just lulled into driving in the normal flow in a car that can't do that in winter.
I drive both my BMW and TVR in the winter. However the reason I drive the TVR less in winter is that its not much fun being a mobile chicaine for other drivers in winter. If I had a clear road I'd probably still use the TVR, but fed up of cars right on my tail going round country bends in the winter because they don't understand that a powerful sports car can't make better progress.
I used my Chimaera every day for two years and 32000+ miles. Yes, sometimes it wasn't the most pleasant experience, and there was a need to be careful in the snow and ice (yes, it did get used in that weather) but it was no more dangerous than any other car I've ever driven.
Given the recent weather and some of the appalling driving I've seen (when will people learn that 4x4 does not exempt you from the laws of physics?) it's more about the person behind the wheel than anything else.
Given the recent weather and some of the appalling driving I've seen (when will people learn that 4x4 does not exempt you from the laws of physics?) it's more about the person behind the wheel than anything else.
julian64 said:
I drive both my BMW and TVR in the winter. However the reason I drive the TVR less in winter is that its not much fun being a mobile chicaine for other drivers in winter. If I had a clear road I'd probably still use the TVR, but fed up of cars right on my tail going round country bends in the winter because they don't understand that a powerful sports car can't make better progress.
^^^^ What he said. Remember you're putting only about 275 kgs on a rear tyre that's 225 mm wide at the least, but more often than not 245 or 255 mm, the compound and tread pattern of which is of the sort that is described at manufacturers' websites as 'not intended for use in near-freezing conditions, snow or ice'. Back in the late '80s a German magazine concluded that in a moderate rain shower, the F40 they were road testing was the slowest car on the Autobahn by some margin...
Personally, the cut-off point for driving my TVR is when I expect conditions to get bad enough for my lower speed compared to the flow of traffic getting a hazard - or at least uncomfortable - in itself...
Edited by 900T-R on Monday 4th January 08:57
900T-R said:
julian64 said:
Back in the late '80s a German magazine concluded that in a moderate rain shower, the F40 they were road testing was the slowest car on the Autobahn by some margin...
I drove back from Germany the weekend before Christmas in the freezing conditions.Edited by 900T-R on Monday 4th January 08:57
Didnt have any choice about it and it was scary as hell.
Yes I was the slowest on the Autobahn. I was the slowest all the way to Calais.
Everything passed me. I couldnt put any power down. Every time I hit the smallest amount of sludge my Tuscan jumped sideways. Several times I had to fight to keep her in a straight line.
Took me an hour to get out of the Hotel car park in Belgium.
Podie said:
I used my Chimaera every day for two years and 32000+ miles. Yes, sometimes it wasn't the most pleasant experience, and there was a need to be careful in the snow and ice (yes, it did get used in that weather) but it was no more dangerous than any other car I've ever driven.
Given the recent weather and some of the appalling driving I've seen (when will people learn that 4x4 does not exempt you from the laws of physics?) it's more about the person behind the wheel than anything else.
Agree. I have driven in Snow and ice and not because I WANTED to (nobody wants crap weather) but because I needed to go somewhere. I would say in these conditions I have to drive considerably slower and more carefully than most other road users, and even then I have had a couple of slippery moments. I dont see how you can say this is less considerate than the behaviour of most people who seem to drive the same way regardless of conditions, which I would say is probably more dangerous. Given the recent weather and some of the appalling driving I've seen (when will people learn that 4x4 does not exempt you from the laws of physics?) it's more about the person behind the wheel than anything else.
This has the potential to turn into one of those threads that winds everyone up. Driving a hugely torquey, lightweight sportscar with fat, non-winter tyres on roads that are covered in snow and ice is asking for trouble. However, until some people actually have an accident they'll continue to claim it is an all-year car. If you read the account of the Sagaris (mmm...might have been a T350) owner's crash over Christmas it is abundantly clear that there are occasions where no amount of driver skill and good sense are enough to save the day. Yes, that is true with any vehicle, but with TVRs the risk is much higher than average.
I had an accident in Europe when I hit some black ice at low speed. The recovery driver who helped me out took one look at my FWD hatchback and basically said "well, what do you expect when you don't have winter tyres". In Europe people think very differently because they are used to this weather. Our lack of experience might provide the 'evidence' to support some macho comments, but I bet there isn't a single driving instructor who would recommend using a TVR in this weather.
I had an accident in Europe when I hit some black ice at low speed. The recovery driver who helped me out took one look at my FWD hatchback and basically said "well, what do you expect when you don't have winter tyres". In Europe people think very differently because they are used to this weather. Our lack of experience might provide the 'evidence' to support some macho comments, but I bet there isn't a single driving instructor who would recommend using a TVR in this weather.
Who cares what a driving instructor has to say?
Honestly its got nothing to do with what you are told. I dispair at people listening to the news to decide whether they can venture out or not.
Imagine you had a 1000bhp car with slick racing tyres and you decided to take it out in icy weather.
I think it likely to could make it completely safely back and forth to work if you drove at 1mph. There would be little or no chance of a crash, or putting it into a hedge. No driving instructor would drop down dead from surprise. You would be driving the car well within its safety zone.
You would however be overtaken by several milk floats and cause a huge tailback wherever you went. So YOU decide whether its sensible to do or not.
Exactly the same is true for any car out there. Know the car. Know your limits, and drive within them. Assuming no car behind you got so road raged they rammed the back of you, you'd be fine.
In a 1000bhp car with racing slicks you'd be doing 1mph and be at 1% of the speed of a normal hatchback. In a TVR you'd be at about 50% of the speed of a normal skinny tire'd hatchback.
My normal journey home takes 20mins. In a TVR in the recent icy weather its taken 45mins to an hour. Because I travel slower than normal, and I avoid roads which would be passable in a normal car but aren't in the TVR.
If I'm not having fun I use a different car. If I only had the TVR the only increased risk of driving it would be people getting frustrated behind me or cutting me up in an attempt to pass.
Honestly its got nothing to do with what you are told. I dispair at people listening to the news to decide whether they can venture out or not.
Imagine you had a 1000bhp car with slick racing tyres and you decided to take it out in icy weather.
I think it likely to could make it completely safely back and forth to work if you drove at 1mph. There would be little or no chance of a crash, or putting it into a hedge. No driving instructor would drop down dead from surprise. You would be driving the car well within its safety zone.
You would however be overtaken by several milk floats and cause a huge tailback wherever you went. So YOU decide whether its sensible to do or not.
Exactly the same is true for any car out there. Know the car. Know your limits, and drive within them. Assuming no car behind you got so road raged they rammed the back of you, you'd be fine.
In a 1000bhp car with racing slicks you'd be doing 1mph and be at 1% of the speed of a normal hatchback. In a TVR you'd be at about 50% of the speed of a normal skinny tire'd hatchback.
My normal journey home takes 20mins. In a TVR in the recent icy weather its taken 45mins to an hour. Because I travel slower than normal, and I avoid roads which would be passable in a normal car but aren't in the TVR.
If I'm not having fun I use a different car. If I only had the TVR the only increased risk of driving it would be people getting frustrated behind me or cutting me up in an attempt to pass.
Garlick said:
I've only driven mine in the ice since collecting in on the 23rd Dec. Commuted to work in it today too.
OK, so I am being careful but as long as you are gentle, light footed and alert then it's OK. I'm not trying to be clever by using it, I just really want to use it.
I do hope the Range Rover in your profile is not roadworthy at the momentOK, so I am being careful but as long as you are gentle, light footed and alert then it's OK. I'm not trying to be clever by using it, I just really want to use it.
SonicHedgeHog said:
Garlick said:
I've only driven mine in the ice since collecting in on the 23rd Dec. Commuted to work in it today too.
OK, so I am being careful but as long as you are gentle, light footed and alert then it's OK. I'm not trying to be clever by using it, I just really want to use it.
I do hope the Range Rover in your profile is not roadworthy at the momentOK, so I am being careful but as long as you are gentle, light footed and alert then it's OK. I'm not trying to be clever by using it, I just really want to use it.
julian64 said:
Who cares what a driving instructor has to say?
Honestly its got nothing to do with what you are told. I dispair at people listening to the news to decide whether they can venture out or not.
Imagine you had a 1000bhp car with slick racing tyres and you decided to take it out in icy weather.
I think it likely to could make it completely safely back and forth to work if you drove at 1mph. There would be little or no chance of a crash, or putting it into a hedge. No driving instructor would drop down dead from surprise. You would be driving the car well within its safety zone.
You would however be overtaken by several milk floats and cause a huge tailback wherever you went. So YOU decide whether its sensible to do or not.
Exactly the same is true for any car out there. Know the car. Know your limits, and drive within them. Assuming no car behind you got so road raged they rammed the back of you, you'd be fine.
In a 1000bhp car with racing slicks you'd be doing 1mph and be at 1% of the speed of a normal hatchback. In a TVR you'd be at about 50% of the speed of a normal skinny tire'd hatchback.
My normal journey home takes 20mins. In a TVR in the recent icy weather its taken 45mins to an hour. Because I travel slower than normal, and I avoid roads which would be passable in a normal car but aren't in the TVR.
If I'm not having fun I use a different car. If I only had the TVR the only increased risk of driving it would be people getting frustrated behind me or cutting me up in an attempt to pass.
This is going to be my last post on this subject because I already want to use inappropriate language. As it is I am going to have to go outside and do some manual labour to work off the anger that these kind of comments create.Honestly its got nothing to do with what you are told. I dispair at people listening to the news to decide whether they can venture out or not.
Imagine you had a 1000bhp car with slick racing tyres and you decided to take it out in icy weather.
I think it likely to could make it completely safely back and forth to work if you drove at 1mph. There would be little or no chance of a crash, or putting it into a hedge. No driving instructor would drop down dead from surprise. You would be driving the car well within its safety zone.
You would however be overtaken by several milk floats and cause a huge tailback wherever you went. So YOU decide whether its sensible to do or not.
Exactly the same is true for any car out there. Know the car. Know your limits, and drive within them. Assuming no car behind you got so road raged they rammed the back of you, you'd be fine.
In a 1000bhp car with racing slicks you'd be doing 1mph and be at 1% of the speed of a normal hatchback. In a TVR you'd be at about 50% of the speed of a normal skinny tire'd hatchback.
My normal journey home takes 20mins. In a TVR in the recent icy weather its taken 45mins to an hour. Because I travel slower than normal, and I avoid roads which would be passable in a normal car but aren't in the TVR.
If I'm not having fun I use a different car. If I only had the TVR the only increased risk of driving it would be people getting frustrated behind me or cutting me up in an attempt to pass.
I'm not going to waste my time tearing your post to pieces because there is no point. You are clearly not the sort of person who is prepared to listen because "you don't care what a driving instructor has to say". I'm not just talking about the thousands of driving instructors who teach people to pass their initial test. I'm talking about the highly skilled advanced instructors who everyone should listen to. Except you of course, who knows better and isn't responsible for accidents caused by other people as they negotiate your rolling road block TVR. God help us.
julian64 said:
Who cares what a driving instructor has to say?
Honestly its got nothing to do with what you are told. I dispair at people listening to the news to decide whether they can venture out or not.
For me this really encapsulates the argument. Anyone who disregards the advice of a professional driving instructor, and who dismisses Police guidance, is displaying a reckless and selfish attitude towards other road users. Honestly its got nothing to do with what you are told. I dispair at people listening to the news to decide whether they can venture out or not.
Someone has already mentioned winter tyres. I seem to recall reading recently that all-season tyres don't really work below 5 deg. C. Factor in a covering of snow and ice, and it's obvious what the outcome might be - (although there do seem to be a number of TVR driving gods out there).
7.
Podie said:
I used my Chimaera every day for two years and 32000+ miles. Yes, sometimes it wasn't the most pleasant experience, and there was a need to be careful in the snow and ice (yes, it did get used in that weather) but it was no more dangerous than any other car I've ever driven.
Given the recent weather and some of the appalling driving I've seen (when will people learn that 4x4 does not exempt you from the laws of physics?) it's more about the person behind the wheel than anything else.
I'd agree with you on that 4x4 comment. I saw a Rangie Sport absolutely hammering down my street last night. I estimate he was doing 45-50mph (in a 30mph zone), in icey conditions. Numpty.Given the recent weather and some of the appalling driving I've seen (when will people learn that 4x4 does not exempt you from the laws of physics?) it's more about the person behind the wheel than anything else.
As for driving TVRs in this weather....well, I've tried it and was very nervous, and mine's a baby TVR in comparison to some of the guys on here. HOWEVER, I do think some of the best motoring can be hand in winter, especially when the sun's out, the skies are clear, and the roads have dried. The engine will run better too in the nice cold air.
SonicHedgeHog said:
julian64 said:
Who cares what a driving instructor has to say?
Honestly its got nothing to do with what you are told. I dispair at people listening to the news to decide whether they can venture out or not.
Imagine you had a 1000bhp car with slick racing tyres and you decided to take it out in icy weather.
I think it likely to could make it completely safely back and forth to work if you drove at 1mph. There would be little or no chance of a crash, or putting it into a hedge. No driving instructor would drop down dead from surprise. You would be driving the car well within its safety zone.
You would however be overtaken by several milk floats and cause a huge tailback wherever you went. So YOU decide whether its sensible to do or not.
Exactly the same is true for any car out there. Know the car. Know your limits, and drive within them. Assuming no car behind you got so road raged they rammed the back of you, you'd be fine.
In a 1000bhp car with racing slicks you'd be doing 1mph and be at 1% of the speed of a normal hatchback. In a TVR you'd be at about 50% of the speed of a normal skinny tire'd hatchback.
My normal journey home takes 20mins. In a TVR in the recent icy weather its taken 45mins to an hour. Because I travel slower than normal, and I avoid roads which would be passable in a normal car but aren't in the TVR.
If I'm not having fun I use a different car. If I only had the TVR the only increased risk of driving it would be people getting frustrated behind me or cutting me up in an attempt to pass.
This is going to be my last post on this subject because I already want to use inappropriate language. As it is I am going to have to go outside and do some manual labour to work off the anger that these kind of comments create.Honestly its got nothing to do with what you are told. I dispair at people listening to the news to decide whether they can venture out or not.
Imagine you had a 1000bhp car with slick racing tyres and you decided to take it out in icy weather.
I think it likely to could make it completely safely back and forth to work if you drove at 1mph. There would be little or no chance of a crash, or putting it into a hedge. No driving instructor would drop down dead from surprise. You would be driving the car well within its safety zone.
You would however be overtaken by several milk floats and cause a huge tailback wherever you went. So YOU decide whether its sensible to do or not.
Exactly the same is true for any car out there. Know the car. Know your limits, and drive within them. Assuming no car behind you got so road raged they rammed the back of you, you'd be fine.
In a 1000bhp car with racing slicks you'd be doing 1mph and be at 1% of the speed of a normal hatchback. In a TVR you'd be at about 50% of the speed of a normal skinny tire'd hatchback.
My normal journey home takes 20mins. In a TVR in the recent icy weather its taken 45mins to an hour. Because I travel slower than normal, and I avoid roads which would be passable in a normal car but aren't in the TVR.
If I'm not having fun I use a different car. If I only had the TVR the only increased risk of driving it would be people getting frustrated behind me or cutting me up in an attempt to pass.
I'm not going to waste my time tearing your post to pieces because there is no point. You are clearly not the sort of person who is prepared to listen because "you don't care what a driving instructor has to say". I'm not just talking about the thousands of driving instructors who teach people to pass their initial test. I'm talking about the highly skilled advanced instructors who everyone should listen to. Except you of course, who knows better and isn't responsible for accidents caused by other people as they negotiate your rolling road block TVR. God help us.
I'm also objecting to the fact that you switch off your own common sense when an 'instructor' says you can't drive a TVR. I pointed out earlier that if you were going to suggest that TVR's should be locked away this time of year at the request of highly skilled advanced instructors, you would also have to ban all motorcycles because of their even poorer ability to grip the road. Its not bravado, its commenting on a daft thread, that is probably reflecting poorly on the other condolences thread running.
Eh? I don't see that much difference of opinion here - julian64 doesn't advocate driving outside safe limits for the condition; quite the reverse. The difference of opinion is where to lay the responsibility - with someone else saying whether you should or should not venture outside, or with yourself.
Except when there's literally zero traction and you get stuck, everything can be driven anywhere at any time in complete safety as long as you stay within the physical limits the combination of vehicle and conditions set (in a worst case scenario - so driving at the speed with with you can safely drive through standing water in a downpour, or with with you can hit black ice and not spin in wintery conditions). That's not matter of opinion, it's fact. Nothing to do with being a driving god either - that part only comes in to play when you breach those limits. The real question is at what point your being slower than the general flow of traffic is getting a hazard or inconsiderate in itself.
Staying home or make a conscious decision to go out and drive within (the worst expected) conditions - anything's better than just drive with the rest of traffic on the motorway and hope you don't hit black ice...
Except when there's literally zero traction and you get stuck, everything can be driven anywhere at any time in complete safety as long as you stay within the physical limits the combination of vehicle and conditions set (in a worst case scenario - so driving at the speed with with you can safely drive through standing water in a downpour, or with with you can hit black ice and not spin in wintery conditions). That's not matter of opinion, it's fact. Nothing to do with being a driving god either - that part only comes in to play when you breach those limits. The real question is at what point your being slower than the general flow of traffic is getting a hazard or inconsiderate in itself.
Staying home or make a conscious decision to go out and drive within (the worst expected) conditions - anything's better than just drive with the rest of traffic on the motorway and hope you don't hit black ice...
SonicHedgeHog said:
This has the potential to turn into one of those threads that winds everyone up. Driving a hugely torquey, lightweight sportscar with fat, non-winter tyres on roads that are covered in snow and ice is asking for trouble. However, until some people actually have an accident they'll continue to claim it is an all-year car.
That's a crass arguement. Many people have crashed TVRs in dry weather - some have lost their lives (including friends of mine - one who was a PHer) and I seem to recall one PHer believes his life was saved by the rollbar in the windscreen of his Tamora.Edit - apologies STH I hadn't read your last comment, i wasn't trying to bring you back into the arguement.
Edited by Podie on Monday 4th January 10:46
Gassing Station | General TVR Stuff & Gossip | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff