How much to start up TVR again?

[dirty boy]

Just doing some pondering....

If I wanted to start making TVRs again, have the name, the moulds, IP etc. How much realistically would I need?

Ignore premises and staff, just want the outline business as above.

Any ideas?


Purely theoretical.

[JR]

dirty boy said:

If I wanted to start ... have the name, ... How much realistically would I need?

This item may dwarf all of the others. The MG name sold for £30million.

[dbv8]

Ouch!
Surely this would cost hundreds if not thousands.

'ONE MILLION DOLLARS'

[dirty boy]

dbv8 said:

Ouch!
Surely this would cost hundreds if not thousands.

'ONE MILLION DOLLARS'

I do wonder how much the name is worth.

It's painful seeing him hold onto it.

[JR]

dirty boy said:

dbv8 said:

Ouch!
Surely this would cost hundreds if not thousands.

'ONE MILLION DOLLARS'

I do wonder how much the name is worth.

It's painful seeing him hold onto it.

I quite agree. The open market value, say at an auction, may well be a tiny fraction of the value which the MG name achieved but the price that NS would want appears to be considerably in excess of that.

John Bloor, the builder, bought a piece of land and found the Triumph motorbike name and IP rights thrown in since they were considered worthless at the time so he sort of got them for free.

[Far Eastender]

If you are looking for a new TVR, it's here:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1060566.htm

[RichardD]

Seems that "VIPER" as a Brand would cost less !

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...

[jammy_basturd]

Given what you'd actually get I don't think it would cost an arm and a leg. The TVR brand does have quite a strong following, though some of those have got fed up with false dawns and promises now. TVR as a brand doesn't really represent much outside of the UK, and outside of the community you have to admit most people will just think; insanely fast, 'beasts', kit cars made in a shed, upholstery glue and unreliable - no matter how much we know some of those things to not be quite true. So I personally wouldn't exactly pay over the odds for the name alone.

Now, as for actually physical things that you'd get. Well it seems most designs, ideas, etc were in workers heads, I've heard not a lot was put down on paper. As for the moulds, again haven't a lot of these been broken up, or are scattered about various places? Engines, well now Mr Wheeler has his own business you'd probably go back to buying in someone else's engine.

So you're left buying a couple of molds, maybe one or two jigs and a not entirely fantastic (any more) name....

[blackpoolrocket]

I personally don't think it's about the costs at the end of the day you need a viable business, unless you have millions to throw away and not worry about the loss. Then you have the equivalent of train set.

It's been discussed on here many times and I tend to agree, TVR is no longer a viable business plan. What NS holds is an expensive piece of history, certainly nothing you could turn into a profitable business.

Historically, the only way marque's like this survive is being bought by bigger brands. Lotus/Proton being a good example of this. Manufacturers are also struggling, so not much chance of that happening

TVR has a future as a kit car one dealer is technically doing this already, beyond this it’s not a case of how much, more a case of Why

[Podie]

blackpoolrocket said:

TVR has a future as a kit car one dealer is technically doing this already..

Do tell...

[blackpoolrocket]

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1060566.htm

[mustang68]

If you were really really considering it, when they were sold last the marque went for £15 mil, and they were still making cars back then and had 500 staff (or so im told)!!!

[V8 GRF]

mustang68 said:

If you were really really considering it, when they were sold last the marque went for £15 mil, and they were still making cars back then and had 500 staff (or so im told)!!!

Not quite true. When NS bought the name from the receivers he paid about £2.5M I believe but got lots of unfinished cars, parts, jigs plant etc

But I'd guess that's the about the figure you'd need to be offering for the name plus some negotiation for stuff they have left like jigs and such if you wanted to go down the route of building the Sagaris and Tuscan III Vert, not sure I would be interested in those cars though. I'd have ideas of my own if the lottery numbers came up.....

Then you need to pull a team together, premises etc etc so I guess the name is the least of your problems in terms of outlay.

[V8 GRF]

Podie said:

blackpoolrocket said:

TVR has a future as a kit car one dealer is technically doing this already..

Do tell...

The STR8 car was a bit of a one-off. Racing Green are building up the last few part assembled cars that were in the factory to customer spec ranging from nearly finished with just the engine and gearbox to add and ones that are just bodies on chassis.
They're not new in the sense of just out of the mould or chassis jig and all have been around since 2006.

Edited by V8 GRF on Friday 29th May 16:38

[mustang68]

V8 GRF said:

mustang68 said:

If you were really really considering it, when they were sold last the marque went for £15 mil, and they were still making cars back then and had 500 staff (or so im told)!!!

Not quite true. When NS bought the name from the receivers he paid about £2.5M I believe but got lots of unfinished cars, parts, jigs plant etc

But I'd guess that's the about the figure you'd need to be offering for the name plus some negotiation for stuff they have left like jigs and such if you wanted to go down the route of building the Sagaris and Tuscan III Vert, not sure I would be interested in those cars though. I'd have ideas of my own if the lottery numbers came up.....

Then you need to pull a team together, premises etc etc so I guess the name is the least of your problems in terms of outlay.

Agreed, although lottery numbers considered, TVR is the one marque id like to see back on the books.

sorry, you guess £2.5 or £15 for the necessary's? its been a long long day!

[deanb]

Apparently Chrysler is selling the Viper brand for just $5.5m, so the name might be a bit cheaper now....

[V8 GRF]

[quote=mustang68
sorry, you guess £2.5 or £15 for the necessary's? its been a long long day!
[/quote]

£2.5m + a bit for whatever..

[glow worm]

Pity they never paid their listed creditors (never mind the unlisted)
Full list of creditors:
Air Products, Layton, £629.87
Andrew Muirhead & Son Limited, Glasgow, £9,864.32
Ainsdale Computer Consultants, Mawdlesley, £2,820.00
Alpine Electronics of UK Ltd, Coventry, £1,601.88
A P Racing, Coventry, £16,836.94
A B Copyright, Hipperholme, £2,260.21
Aquaid, Burscough, £548.01
Arrans Investments Limited, Macedonia, £2,861,515.77
Artwork Publication, Marton, Blackpool, £315.00
ADT Fire & Security, Middlesex, £289.05
Auto Trading Luft Japan Company Ltd, Japan, £1,472.25
Biffa Waste Services Ltd, High Wycombe, £2,418.05
Saia-Burgess Gateshead Ltd, Gateshead, £418.19
X Part Factors (County Motors), Morecambe, £473.41
British Telecommunications, Preston, £6,173.52
Blackpool Electrical Traders, Poulton, £323.69
Robert Bosch Limited, Broad Water Park, £5,641.78
Builders Suppliers Ltd, Cleveleys, £901.92
Blackpool Borough Council, Blackpool, £11,108.59
Bolton Lock Company Ltd, Bolton, £52.54
Bibby Factors Northeast Ltd, Sunderland, £885.96
Barclaycard Merchant Services, Northampton, £47.00
British Gas, Southampton, £2,333.17
Chapman Engineering Limited, Poulton, £149.69
CTS Corporation UK Ltd, Glasgow, £4,383.37
Castle TVR, Essex, £11,433.27
Clarion Events, London, £13,138.67
Christopher Neil, Northwich, Cheshire, £2,804.76
Ciceley Continental Ltd (Car), Preston, £0.02
Castle TVR Spares, Essex, £596.76
Christopher Neil Spares, Northwich, Cheshire, £2,804.76
Dexter Paints Ltd, Burnley, £23,305.42
Direct Displays and Exhibitions, Chorley, £1,172.65
DHL Global Forewarding (UK) Ltd, Staines, £143.61
Direct Chemical Supplies, Blackpool, £44.06
Durable Fasteners Ltd, London, £35.25
DMC Business Machines PLC, Surrey, £63.98
Exius Insurance, Manchester, £45.94
EPTG Ltd, Uxbridge, £85.87
Erocall, Redbourn, Herts, £0.29
Farnell Electronic Comp Ltd, Leeds, £2,140.88
Federal Express Europe Inc, Coventry, £63.21
Freeland Motors of Jersey, Jersey, £131.04
Fuchs Lubritech (UK) Ltd, London, £361.22
Grant Thornton, Manchester, £17,742.50
Goodyear Tyres GB Ltd, Birmingham, £947.23
H L Gormer Ltd, Wigan, £11,098.95
Giles Cooper, Bedford, £21,138.53
Glenvarigill TVR, Edinburgh, £504.81
Hills Dickinson, Liverpool, £2,119.14
Hedley's Humpers, London, £279.06
HM Revenue and Customs, Preston £697,980.00
Hexham Horseless Carriages, Northumberland, £650.76
HM Revenue and Customs, Liverpool, £158,071.85
IMMI, Cramlington, £10,680.25
IGUS (UK) Ltd, Northampton, £27.21
HM Revenues and Customs, Worthing, West Sussex, £76,000
Kopak-Walker Ltd, Hitchin, £306.81
Jack Knight, Woking, Surrey, £1,781.18
Koyo Steering Europe, Paris, £10,193.23
Konica Minolta Business, Basildon, £803.39
Arbuthnot Commercial Finance, Birmingham, £45.83
Fuchs Lubritech UK Ltd, London, £361.22
Land Rover UK Ltd, Lode Lane, Block One, £22,931.17
Linton Engineering, Bearbrook Industrial Precinct, £6,567.94
Lawrence Vehicles Ltd, Bamber Bridge, £883.52
L1J Fluid Power Ltd, Grimshaw Street, £620.41
Harry B Litherland, Blackpool, £85.51
The Living Office, Hereford, £779.83
Peter J Lawson, Blackpool, £60.00
Lancer Products Ltd, Walsall, West Midlands, £0.08
Neil Myerson and Co, Altrincham, £1,304.72
Maa Ja Meri Oy, Finland, £363.58
United Utilities, Warrington, £4,155.47
Nmag B V Spares, Netherlands, £834.27
Nationwide Franking Sense, Bolton, £564.00
Plasma Private Ltd, India, £3,210.50
Pexa Ltd, Holywell Green, £160.65
Poole Clayton Auto Limited, Walworth Industrial Estate, £1,635.60
Paintshield Ltd, Grantham, Lincs, £411.25
Plastic Parts Centre, Guinness Road, £297.26
Power Torque Engineering Limited, Coventry, £652.83
Prime Exports, India, £665.00
Peninsular TVR (Car), Devon, £6,341.06
RAC Motoring Services, Bristol, £18,124.06
Ross Turner, Garstang, £1,358.17
RPS Group PLC, Oxon, £334.88
Rentokil Hygiene, West Sussex, £313.91
Serck Intertruck, Salford, £58.75
Safety-Kleen UK Ltd, Isleworth, £716.92
Spimin Developments Ltd, Poulton, £2,891.32
Scott Bader Co Ltd, Northamptonshire, £621.37
Sparta Limited, Rossendale, £19,425.81
Sonic Fire & Security Ltd, Buxton Lane, £117.50
System Hygiene Ltd, Accrington, £874.66
Spesso Gaskets SrI, Italy, £1,210.15
UTI Worlwide (UK) Ltd, Milton Keynes, £4,643.70
Sunlight Service Group, Merseyside, £10,912.34
Stephen Sanderson Transport Ltd, Leicestershire, £458.25
Sparco, Italy, £18,749.82
Scottish Power PLC, Glasgow, £15,659.06
Safe & Warm Ltd, Blackpool, £34.66
Service Stainless Steel, Barton Dock Road, £222.94
Sinemaster Motor Factors Ltd, Sheffield, £251.42
Sportmobil Ltd, Moscow, £6,552.34
Nikolai Smolenski, Vienna, £43,278.61
Saia-Burgess Gateshead Ltd, Tyne & Wear, £418.95
TVR Power Ltd, Coventry, £21,778.70
TNT UK Ltd, Bury, £5,639.73
TEU Ltd, Southport, £1,655.32
Teconnex Ltd, Keighley, £1,113.90
G Turner, London, £110.78
TVR Motors Co Ltd, Blackpool, £22,276,645.01
United Parcel Service, Feltham, £93.84
United Utilities, Warrington, £4,155.47
Vodafone Connect Ltd, Newbury, £5,668.58
Verbatim Call Centres, Newbury, Berks, £548.16
Wicks & Martin Ltd, Herefordshire, £1,455.58
Waveform Solutions Ltd, Warwick, £881.25
Williams of Harrogate Ltd (CR), Harrogate, £10,412.37
Westover Sportscars Spares, Dorset, £102.45
Peter Wheeler, Altrincham, £2,771,882.00
XPart Factors, Carlisle, £473.41
ZS Lemforder TVA.SA, Spain, £4,125.20

125 entries totalling £29,309,139.21

[thainy77]

Mr. Wheeler was owed a fair bit of cash then.

[andybloggs260@ho]

but would u need to buy the TVR brand name or Re juvenate the TreVoR name ppl would be still aware where the roots are from designs from small decent kit car builders wil Ls power etc will be cheaper start im sure there are lots of Xtremely skilled workers from blackpool still willing to work with grp and chasis jigs ! if that were a sucsess ns would own 3 worthless letters and thats about all