Potential TVR owner needs guidance
Discussion
If I've got around £15K-£20K to spend on a second car for fun, which TVR should I be looking at?
The idea would be to have something which I enjoyed even at low speed (I've done the fast car bit and now want something that's fun to pootle in) so it would have to sound good (duh!). I love engine and exhaust sounds... I remember being blown away hearing a Griff fire up at Fernhurst Motor Co once when I nearly bought a Chimaera.
Not too worried about reliability since it would be a fun car, for the odd commute or weekend trip. Would be nice to keep depreciation and running costs down of course. One alternative I'm looking at is a Porsche 965 Turbo II - but this is a 15 year old car and is going to cost a bit in maintenance. How good / bad are TVRs likely to be by comparison? (PS I saw a Tuscan with 18k miles that had a new engine at 15k miles - is this normal??)
Is there an obvious model to go for?
Thanks chaps!
The idea would be to have something which I enjoyed even at low speed (I've done the fast car bit and now want something that's fun to pootle in) so it would have to sound good (duh!). I love engine and exhaust sounds... I remember being blown away hearing a Griff fire up at Fernhurst Motor Co once when I nearly bought a Chimaera.
Not too worried about reliability since it would be a fun car, for the odd commute or weekend trip. Would be nice to keep depreciation and running costs down of course. One alternative I'm looking at is a Porsche 965 Turbo II - but this is a 15 year old car and is going to cost a bit in maintenance. How good / bad are TVRs likely to be by comparison? (PS I saw a Tuscan with 18k miles that had a new engine at 15k miles - is this normal??)
Is there an obvious model to go for?
Thanks chaps!
Edited by zadumbreion on Sunday 27th January 22:01
I have to say, a cerbera would fit the bill pretty well. It probably would want a remap (see Jools at Track Car Solutions) if you really want it to be as smooth and comfortable as a normal car at low speeds. Its an amazing car- a brilliant tourer mated to a (semi) race engine, so you get the best of both worlds.
Its a totally different sound. Where the griff is a woffaly, american sounding v8, the cerb is a revvy screamer, more like a ferrari v8 (also a flat plane crank design). Have a look on youtube. At the end of the day, its the volume of the car is completely dependent on the particular exhaust fitted.
Well, in fairness, the people that seem to be reccomending a cerbera are all a little biased (myself included!), but the cerbera is probably a little less raw to use every day than a griff. Dont get me wrong, it wont be everyones cup of tea, but the cerbera will be a more relaxing car to cruise in, with the hard roof accounting for much of that. Some people will no doubt tell you that the rover v8 will be more reliable, but there will equally be plenty of cerbera owners who will happly expound the reliability and strength of the AJP v8. As for running costs.. well, the griff probably will win there, as the ajp unit is certainly a more specialist engine.
zadumbreion said:
So why is the Cerbera obviously better than, say, a Griffith? Is it more civilised - more reliable? Why does it appear to be a popular recommendation?
(Don't get me wrong - if it's a clear choice that makes my life a lot easier!)
Do yourself a favour and test drive a Griff then a Cerb. If you just want it to potter around in you will get a Griff, the Cerb,s are like a coffin inside with a massive maintenance bill. Them AJP,s are good, don't get me wrong but at a cost. You would be much better of with a Rover V8 which is in the Griff.(Don't get me wrong - if it's a clear choice that makes my life a lot easier!)
And sound just as good with the right pipes.
zadumbreion said:
So why is the Cerbera obviously better than, say, a Griffith? Is it more civilised - more reliable? Why does it appear to be a popular recommendation?
(Don't get me wrong - if it's a clear choice that makes my life a lot easier!)
Check the profiles of the posters! (Don't get me wrong - if it's a clear choice that makes my life a lot easier!)
They are great cars but if you're worried about maintenance/running costs, they are probably towards the top end of the TVR range in terms of servicing etc.
The Chimaeras & Griffiths are great drives as well - with the added advantage that their roofs come off!
They also sound fantastic with their V8s and you should definitely find a good one for that money.
Cerbera running costs?
Depends on how much you're willing to do yourself, but they are fairly easy cars to work on. There's generous room to work in the engine bay, and most items that wear out regularly are gm/ford parts. I think most people would suggest budgeting 1-2k a year for maintenance with a good specialist if you just want someone to do everything for you. Presumably though if your doing a lot of miles you will have to be prepared for the odd year where you could be a fair bit more.
Depends on how much you're willing to do yourself, but they are fairly easy cars to work on. There's generous room to work in the engine bay, and most items that wear out regularly are gm/ford parts. I think most people would suggest budgeting 1-2k a year for maintenance with a good specialist if you just want someone to do everything for you. Presumably though if your doing a lot of miles you will have to be prepared for the odd year where you could be a fair bit more.
I won't be doing lots of miles - and I certainly won't be having a go myself. I'd be tempted - but I'm pretty cack-handed with cars. (To be fair, it's an experience thing - you need experience and tools, and I have neither)
I am a V8 fan - everyday driver is an Alpina B10 V8. The Griffs and Chims sound pretty nice to me - nicer than the Cerbera to my ears anyway. Personal preference. I do like the "tug boat" idling sound.
So.... Chimaeras seem cheap - what's the advantage of the Griffith over the Chimaera - they look different obviously, and the engines are bigger (I think?) - is that it?
Given what I want it for, a nice Chimaera might be a good start - and would leave me some change and therefore a happier wife ;-)
ETA OK, I'm googling for the model differences. Ought to do some of the legwork myself I suppose!
I am a V8 fan - everyday driver is an Alpina B10 V8. The Griffs and Chims sound pretty nice to me - nicer than the Cerbera to my ears anyway. Personal preference. I do like the "tug boat" idling sound.
So.... Chimaeras seem cheap - what's the advantage of the Griffith over the Chimaera - they look different obviously, and the engines are bigger (I think?) - is that it?
Given what I want it for, a nice Chimaera might be a good start - and would leave me some change and therefore a happier wife ;-)
ETA OK, I'm googling for the model differences. Ought to do some of the legwork myself I suppose!
Edited by zadumbreion on Sunday 27th January 23:09
Griffs have always seemed overpriced to me compared with chims. They have exactly the same engine options, and from what Ive been told, have the same chassis and suspension. Plus, I've always thought the chim looks nicer. The griffs just have the reputation and the full TVR image, and in the end, you cant put a price on that. I think you really have to prefer the griff package to justify it over a chimaera, as they are essentially the same car.
brogenville said:
Griffs have always seemed overpriced to me compared with chims. They have exactly the same engine options, and from what Ive been told, have the same chassis and suspension. Plus, I've always thought the chim looks nicer. The griffs just have the reputation and the full TVR image, and in the end, you cant put a price on that. I think you really have to prefer the griff package to justify it over a chimaera, as they are essentially the same car.
Interesting, thanks (and for your other comments). I've just read that the Chim was supposed to be more of a "GT" package with softer suspension, which would probably work for me.So if my priorities included comfort, price, sound and reliability (not necessarily in that order) then a Chimaera might sound about right? I realise it's still a TVR, not a BMW family saloon - but within that, those would be my priorities rather than outright performance or advanced handling. If it looks nice, starts most of the time, sounds fantastic and doesn't give me a backache then we're in business.
Are there any particular years / models to look out for - ie when cats / noise regulations came into force etc? Aside from being a little slower, what's the downside of the 4.0 engines compared with the 4.5?
zadumbreion said:
Are there any particular years / models to look out for - ie when cats / noise regulations came into force etc? Aside from being a little slower, what's the downside of the 4.0 engines compared with the 4.5?
I had a 400 for three years and I have had my 500 for four, I have driven loads and loads of all engine variants, the main difference is torque, with the larger engined models instant foot to the floor overtaking is more of a breeze but I also found in the twisties a 400 is easier to abuse more relaxed. You can nail a 400 in the bends without a care in the world (in the right conditions) whereas the 500 needs to be run with more of a balanced throttle approach, yes more fun sideways when you get the hang of it but some people don't want the extra pressure in driving approach? I do but that's me. The 4.5 surprisingly is between the two other engine variants, some regard the 4.5 as the slightly more reliable engine as the crank benefits from cross bolting, however failures in all models are very rare.For me i would look towards a post 96 car as opposed to giving the engine priority. The post 96 cars (facelifted) gain a whole host of benefits, the front grill is removed and the bonnet vents widened, my 95 400 used to get really hot in summer in traffic, my 98 has never had an issue. The interior benefits from a more bespoke approach with ally switchgear etc. It also has the longer bootlid and the same chassis as the Griff which is said to be better.
Another choice you need to make is regarding steering - PAS or not? PAS cars are generally worth about a grand more, but are they worth it? The steering rack in a PAS car is 2.2 turns lock to lock, one of the fastest racks available in a production car, the non PAS rack is 2.4. The PAS rack is easier to use when parking etc but becomes very twitchy at high speed especially if you upgrade suspension or lower tyre profiles. My 400 had PAS and when I changed to a 500 I opted for non-PAS and it works for me far better, the feedback is far better at all speeds and I no longer have to dodge potholes at 80mph plus. This again is something you have to drive and make your own mind up about.
To sum up, I would rather have a clean late 400 than a ropier older 500 which might impress some people in the pub car park perhaps for the wrong reasons.
There are issues out there with cars suffering from chassis corrosion so buy wisely, yes here it comes - the outriggers are really hard to inspect on top and there are a lot of cars out there with unknown issues.
Get a feel for the car, the owner, the history - then get it inspected.
Pick up a copy of Steve Heath's 'bible' it will be money well spent.
Regards
Corin
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