Discussion
been watching a few of the speed 12 clips on youtube along with a few other examples of tvr aural pleasure. god i love these cars!
can anyone tell me where smolenski is so i can smack the stupid russian t
t in the face?
let the brand go you russian prick and give someone else a chance at making beelzebubs chariots.
can anyone tell me where smolenski is so i can smack the stupid russian t
t in the face?let the brand go you russian prick and give someone else a chance at making beelzebubs chariots.
tamore said:
been watching a few of the speed 12 clips on youtube along with a few other examples of tvr aural pleasure. god i love these cars!
can anyone tell me where smolenski is so i can smack the stupid russian tt in the face?
let the brand go you russian prick and give someone else a chance at making beelzebubs chariots.
Let the brand go to who? can anyone tell me where smolenski is so i can smack the stupid russian t
t in the face?let the brand go you russian prick and give someone else a chance at making beelzebubs chariots.
Do you really think that the company in the state it was when Smolenski bought his first Tuscan from The TVR Centre in Barnet would have survived any longer than it did once he'd bailed out the previous owner and taken over the debt ridden business? There have been countless threads on this subject - some still live.
Like you - I also love these cars but we are a tiny bunch of enthusiastic owners and aspiring owners. What do you believe the main performance car buying public think - the people who would make up the market for a continuation of the business? It is a sad fact that TVR has earned a dreadful repuatation for reliability issues, poor build quality and failure to deliver a car equipped to the levels which have come to be expected in the 21st century.
EVEN here, on PH, there's a thread running presently titled "What phrase best describes your TVR?". Just see how many derogatory comments there are posted by current owners who you'd have thought would have been bright enough not to slag off their own cars in a public forum! Add that to the appearance of a couple of Chimaeras on 'Watchdog' a few years ago, there because their frustrated owners couldn't get leaks and reliability issues fixed. Then throw into the mix, the previous company owner's reported response... "We dont build our cars for homosexuals" to the question asking why the cars aren't equipped with anti-lock brakes, traction control and the like. Then for final good measure bellieve me that the 'Official TVR Dealer' who I first visited when wanting to buy one was so unbelieveably bad and unreliable that it left me with the impression..."No wonder they went broke".
Smolenski lost a ton of money chasing an unrealistic dream. The damage was done long before he came along IMHO and nobody can blame hiom for hanging on to what he thinks still has value in an attempt to recover some of his money.
There ARE great cars which suffer a dreadful reputatioon - mostly unjustified. But don't blame Smolenski - he wasn't even around when things started to go bad.
Now look - your short rant has turned into my long one
Edited by nikman on Saturday 22 December 14:53
i understand what you're saying, and wheeler knew it was all on the skids. little nikolai and whatever team he put together obviously have no idea what due diligence is!
however, there's people waiting to take over, but he's being a spoilt brat. if i can't play in the sandpit, then nobody can. it's foreign money again, but that's the way of the world.
however, there's people waiting to take over, but he's being a spoilt brat. if i can't play in the sandpit, then nobody can. it's foreign money again, but that's the way of the world.
tamore said:
i understand what you're saying, and wheeler knew it was all on the skids. little nikolai and whatever team he put together obviously have no idea what due diligence is!
however, there's people waiting to take over, but he's being a spoilt brat. if i can't play in the sandpit, then nobody can. it's foreign money again, but that's the way of the world.
I really don't think it's quite like that but, like you, I really don't know. however, there's people waiting to take over, but he's being a spoilt brat. if i can't play in the sandpit, then nobody can. it's foreign money again, but that's the way of the world.
I find it hard to believe his ego alone would prevent him from selling anything he has salvaged and recouping some of his money.
But consider this, until he sells what he has acquired, so long as he's still 'in play', he doesn't have to emotionally acknowledge the extent of the loss. People have shares, and other volatile investments and the hardest thing is to get them to sell after there has been a fall (well, it's hard to get them to sell after a huge rise as well - but that's for a different reason!). It's because until they walk away, there's always hope that things will improve - so it must be with him.
But before you jump up and down saying it's not fair to the others - in truth there are no others willing (or 'waiting') as you say to take this on. Who do you have in mind with that sort of money? Ford? GM? It's easier to start with a clean sheet of paper if this is the business they want to get into. The brand only has value with a very tiny, insiignificant number of people and how many of those Chim/Griff/Cerb/Wedge/S series/ T series cars do you think have 50 - 60 odd grand to throw at such a new car? Enough to warrant a MULTI million pound investment and long term commitment? 'Not very many' is my best guess !
SEN 18 said:
SEN 18 said:
G Star Racing said:
Mr Oxley Blackpool Knows where Mr TVR USSR IS ...
He should do, his feet are visible sticking out of the Russians arse. Its a true fact of life anyone who as no qualifications has to resort to other ways to get on in this life, and most have to shit on their work mates and suck the bosses arse .Am I right or am I wrong.
@ shortsthenick said:
nikman said:
The previous company owner's reported response... "We dont build our cars for homosexuals" to the question asking why the cars aren't equipped with anti-lock brakes, traction control and the like.
Peter Wheeler, I salute you! 
You may well do - but see here's the problem. When PW took over the average owner had a box of spanners and didn't mind using them. Then things moved on to where we are today where the average owner instead of spanners likely has a box of facial wiipes and moisturiser. He demands reliability, minimum involvement and a 'badge'. So rather than buy one of those 'boy racer' TVRs he goes and buys a Cockster or similar from another milti billion dollar manufacturer. THAT is IMHO the reason the liklehood of production resuming is close to zero. Nick.
nikman said:
thenick said:
nikman said:
The previous company owner's reported response... "We dont build our cars for homosexuals" to the question asking why the cars aren't equipped with anti-lock brakes, traction control and the like.
Peter Wheeler, I salute you! You may well do - but see here's the problem. When PW took over the average owner had a box of spanners and didn't mind using them. Then things moved on to where we are today where the average owner instead of spanners likely has a box of facial wiipes and moisturiser. He demands reliability, minimum involvement and a 'badge'. So rather than buy one of those 'boy racer' TVRs he goes and buys a Cockster or similar from another milti billion dollar manufacturer. THAT is IMHO the reason the liklehood of production resuming is close to zero. Nick.
nikman said:
Just see how many derogatory comments there are posted by current owners who you'd have thought would have been bright enough not to slag off their own cars in a public forum!
But to imagine that a car is perfect simply because you own it is not not sensible. Your comment reminds me of the rabid TVRCC types who got all steamed if anyone dared say anything less than excellent about their cars.nikman said:
The brand only has value with a very tiny, insiignificant number of people and how many of those Chim/Griff/Cerb/Wedge/S series/ T series cars do you think have 50 - 60 odd grand to throw at such a new car? Enough to warrant a MULTI million pound investment and long term commitment? 'Not very many' is my best guess !
IMHO the main reason for TVRs demise was the belief that people would pay £50-60K for their cars. They didn't because they weren't good enough. And that's a fact, because if they WERE good enough, they'd have sold a decent amount and the company would stil be trading. The most successful and best-selling TVRs were the Griffith and Chimaera, selling in the £20-£30K bracket. That worked. Then TVR tried to be too clever (built their own engine, doubled prices) and lost the plot.I'm delighted with my Griff, but I don't wear blnkers.
SEN 18 said:
SEN 18 said:
SEN 18 said:
G Star Racing said:
Mr Oxley Blackpool Knows where Mr TVR USSR IS ...
He should do, his feet are visible sticking out of the Russians arse. Its a true fact of life anyone who as no qualifications has to resort to other ways to get on in this life, and most have to shit on their work mates and suck the bosses arse .Am I right or am I wrong.
never was a true'r word said in jest.
Remember he had already run one business into the ground and TVR was only an extension of his business skills. The report that was published in the local paper at the time allegedly made for interesting reading.
Simpo Two said:
IMHO the main reason for TVRs demise was the belief that people would pay £50-60K for their cars. They didn't because they weren't good enough. And that's a fact, because if they WERE good enough, they'd have sold a decent amount and the company would stil be trading. The most successful and best-selling TVRs were the Griffith and Chimaera, selling in the £20-£30K bracket. That worked. Then TVR tried to be too clever (built their own engine, doubled prices) and lost the plot.
I'm delighted with my Griff, but I don't wear blnkers.
As you would imagine, those that own some of those 50K cars will dispute the fact that they were not good enough. The later cars were very good - a long way ahead of the 90s product I am pleased to say.I'm delighted with my Griff, but I don't wear blnkers.
T350s and Tamoras could be bought new for mid 30s in 2004, less than the last "100" 5.0 litre Griffs. It is only the top of the range cars that laterly moved into the 50K+ range and then only when urged by silly options.
I am not blinkered either. You like your Griff, it does for you what you want, I geuss in your eyes, it makes it a good car.
Griffs and Chimaeas sold well becuase there was very little around as competition in the price range that did what those cars did. It's a very different market place now that affords folk more choice.
Daftlad said:
Simpo Two said:
T350s and Tamoras could be bought new for mid 30s in 2004, less than the last "100" 5.0 litre Griffs. It is only the top of the range cars that laterly moved into the 50K+ range and then only when urged by silly options.
I think that one will find that the "100" griffs were in reality "105". The director at that time allowed the over-production to get rid of surplus stock.
Jaymes1 said:
Daftlad said:
Simpo Two said:
T350s and Tamoras could be bought new for mid 30s in 2004, less than the last "100" 5.0 litre Griffs. It is only the top of the range cars that laterly moved into the 50K+ range and then only when urged by silly options.
I think that one will find that the "100" griffs were in reality "105". The director at that time allowed the over-production to get rid of surplus stock.Simpo Two said:
nikman said:
Just see how many derogatory comments there are posted by current owners who you'd have thought would have been bright enough not to slag off their own cars in a public forum!
But to imagine that a car is perfect simply because you own it is not not sensible. Your comment reminds me of the rabid TVRCC types who got all steamed if anyone dared say anything less than excellent about their cars.nikman said:
The brand only has value with a very tiny, insiignificant number of people and how many of those Chim/Griff/Cerb/Wedge/S series/ T series cars do you think have 50 - 60 odd grand to throw at such a new car? Enough to warrant a MULTI million pound investment and long term commitment? 'Not very many' is my best guess !
IMHO the main reason for TVRs demise was the belief that people would pay £50-60K for their cars. They didn't because they weren't good enough. And that's a fact, because if they WERE good enough, they'd have sold a decent amount and the company would stil be trading. The most successful and best-selling TVRs were the Griffith and Chimaera, selling in the £20-£30K bracket. That worked. Then TVR tried to be too clever (built their own engine, doubled prices) and lost the plot.I'm delighted with my Griff, but I don't wear blnkers.
my griff 500 - was 38k list in 1998...
just simple labour inflation and business costs, would put these cars over 50k now...
but, essentially I agree, when i bought my 2nd griff, i thought 10k more than my first one, but it was essentially the same/unsophisticated...
porsches, etc, have gor 'relativel'y cheaper AND 'relatively' better.
I woulddn't pay 50k for a new griff/tusc/etc.
I would think to get more for my money else where,
and as for 6k, 7-8 hours service intervals and prices - forget it!
12k miles a year, service costs were way more than the competition.
Edited by BJWoods on Tuesday 25th December 14:48
Simpo Two said:
nikman said:
Just see how many derogatory comments there are posted by current owners who you'd have thought would have been bright enough not to slag off their own cars in a public forum!
But to imagine that a car is perfect simply because you own it is not not sensible. Your comment reminds me of the rabid TVRCC types who got all steamed if anyone dared say anything less than excellent about their cars.I'm delighted with my Griff, but I don't wear blnkers.
BTW, I am a 'TVRCC type' and ofter quite 'rabid' but I genuinely think it's a mistake (however funny it may be) to publically denounce these cars at a time when their reputation has just suffered a major blow and lots of good PR is needed to redress that IF ever there was to be any hope of a re-launch.
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