Yet another tyre question...
Discussion
I've been trawling the interporn for the tyres specified in the manual for my 1992 Griff 430 (no PAS): 215/50R15ZR & 225/50R16ZR. I'm looking for a 'good' tyre - I don't track it, I'm not even a terribly fast road user (although I may make the odd quick get-away... as one does) - I just want to buy the correctly rated/fitting tyres for my car. I'm not a brand snob either.
The only tyres found thus far meeting exactly those criteria for both front & rear have been Dunlop SP9000 until I stumbled across Millennium Star tyres. I've not heard of them before and even the name sounds cheesy, but they're the right spec. Has anyone here used them?
On the kwik-fit site there are also several alternatives for the rear; Continental Conti-Sport, Ceat Tornado I & GT Champiro 50 - any opinions?
Clearly, the easy option is to go for the Dunlops as they're listed, but in the threads I've found they're not mentioned. Are they any good?
P.S. I'm using Toyo Proxes T1-S (205/55R15 88V) on the front & Bridgestone Potenza S02 (225/50R16 92W) on the rear - No complaints, but they're not as specified in the manual. I'd rather fit the recommended tyres if possible.
The only tyres found thus far meeting exactly those criteria for both front & rear have been Dunlop SP9000 until I stumbled across Millennium Star tyres. I've not heard of them before and even the name sounds cheesy, but they're the right spec. Has anyone here used them?
On the kwik-fit site there are also several alternatives for the rear; Continental Conti-Sport, Ceat Tornado I & GT Champiro 50 - any opinions?
Clearly, the easy option is to go for the Dunlops as they're listed, but in the threads I've found they're not mentioned. Are they any good?
P.S. I'm using Toyo Proxes T1-S (205/55R15 88V) on the front & Bridgestone Potenza S02 (225/50R16 92W) on the rear - No complaints, but they're not as specified in the manual. I'd rather fit the recommended tyres if possible.
Bomber Denton said:
I sell them, they are British and they are half tidy although I wouldn't recommend them for a Griff. Fine for your eurobarge or second car but doesn't the Griff deserve slightly better?
That's interesting... I assumed the Z rating 'made' them suitable. Is one manufacturer's Z rating inferior to another's or am I missing something?
Bomber Denton said:
Only probably the next apex.
Seconded. The Z rating only means that they won't blister when going at speed in a straight line. It says nothing for the compound the tyre is made from, its' grip either in a straight line (under braking) or sideways through a corner, or indeed how well they cope with rain. Expensive tyres aren't expensive for no reason.
Even if you're not a mad driver, we all have to do the odd emergency stop (I had to tonight when some muppet in a white escort-van pulled out right in front of me). The only thing that stops you locking up under heavy braking is how good your tyres are, and if they're not as good as your brakes then kiss your car goodbye!
I'll list the best and their relative benefits / disadvantages.
Michelin: Great grip, very hard wearing and you'll get lots of miles. But they are among the most expensive.
Pirelli: Excellent grip all round, however they are a soft compound and wear out quickly.
Goodyear: A good mix of grip and wear levels, jack of all trades but master of none.
Bridgestone: As above but I'd say slightly better on grip.
Dunlop: Have had problems in the past but now a good grippy tyre but at the cost of durability.
GoodRich: Rebranded michelins but a slightly harder compound. Better miles, slightly less grip.
Yokohama: Also rebranded michelin but softer. Excellent grip but at the expense of mileage.
Toyo: Excellent grip but suffer with durability. Pretty much the same as the Pirellis.
I wouldn't put any other brands on a powerful car.
V8Cerbera said:
Bomber Denton said:
Only probably the next apex.
Seconded. The Z rating only means that they won't blister when going at speed in a straight line. It says nothing for the compound the tyre is made from, its' grip either in a straight line (under braking) or sideways through a corner, or indeed how well they cope with rain. Expensive tyres aren't expensive for no reason.
Even if you're not a mad driver, we all have to do the odd emergency stop (I had to tonight when some muppet in a white escort-van pulled out right in front of me). The only thing that stops you locking up under heavy braking is how good your tyres are, and if they're not as good as your brakes then kiss your car goodbye!
I'll list the best and their relative benefits / disadvantages.
Michelin: Great grip, very hard wearing and you'll get lots of miles. But they are among the most expensive.
Pirelli: Excellent grip all round, however they are a soft compound and wear out quickly.
Goodyear: A good mix of grip and wear levels, jack of all trades but master of none.
Bridgestone: As above but I'd say slightly better on grip.
Dunlop: Have had problems in the past but now a good grippy tyre but at the cost of durability.
GoodRich: Rebranded michelins but a slightly harder compound. Better miles, slightly less grip.
Yokohama: Also rebranded michelin but softer. Excellent grip but at the expense of mileage.
Toyo: Excellent grip but suffer with durability. Pretty much the same as the Pirellis.
I wouldn't put any other brands on a powerful car.
Again interesting. From your review I thought Michelin, Goodyear & Bridgestone would be my preferred supplier(s). I've had a butchers at the Michelin site but the closest they offer is 195/55R15V* Michelin Pilot Exalto & 225/50R16W Michelin Premium HP. Goodyear offer their Eagle F1 GS-D3 in the correct sizes but V front & W rear. Bridgestone site is not responding at the mo.
This is proving more demanding than I'd expected - maybe this is why most seem to opt for the Toyo, lower rated tyre?
*I've used Pneus-Online to determine the closest alternative size.
<hr>
Thanks JR, that keeps it simple - although our friend above suggests they may not be as durable as others. Having said that, most Griffs seem to do less than 10,000 miles p.a. so not really an issue.
V8Cerbera said:
Michelin: Great grip, very hard wearing and you'll get lots of miles. But they are among the most expensive.
Pirelli: Excellent grip all round, however they are a soft compound and wear out quickly.
Goodyear: A good mix of grip and wear levels, jack of all trades but master of none.
Bridgestone: As above but I'd say slightly better on grip.
Dunlop: Have had problems in the past but now a good grippy tyre but at the cost of durability.
GoodRich: Rebranded michelins but a slightly harder compound. Better miles, slightly less grip.
Yokohama: Also rebranded michelin but softer. Excellent grip but at the expense of mileage.
Toyo: Excellent grip but suffer with durability. Pretty much the same as the Pirellis.
I wouldn't put any other brands on a powerful car.
What about the Falken FK451 and 452s?
www.falkentyres-uk.com/tyre-details.aspx?id=7
crazycraig said:
Hi Craig,
Falken appear to offer the FK-452 for the rear 92W, but on the front the closest is 195/55R15 85V ZIEX ZE-512.
JR said:
LordGrover said:
on the front the closest is 195/55R15 85V ZIEX ZE-512.
Please note that when TVR dropped the 215/50/15 size they went to 205/55/15. (Then you're back to the Dunlops or Michelins.)
I appreciate that's what TVR say, but with that size the overall diameter of the tyre reduces by 0.4" so my speedo reading would change. The 195/55R15 is identical, near as darn, so no problem from that point of view. As I have no PAS, the narrower section is attractive too - would this have noticeable implications for grip? Is it wide enough for the standard rims?
Ian,
You need 205/55/15 front and 225/50/16 rear if your old 5 spokes, non PAS.
I've got Dunlop SP9000's on the BV which are good but I'd put Toyo T1R's on the rear when they are replaced as the toyo's are brill on the Griff. Got this combo on the 500 and it works well - same wear rate (280).
It is a real problem getting the same make front and rear in the correct rating. SP9000 seems the only option as Toyo are only availble in V rated forj the 15"'s. I spoke with Toyo and tried to convince themn to continue with the Z rating but 5-6,000 Tivs (Griff/Chim) isn't enough to excite them.
FFG
You need 205/55/15 front and 225/50/16 rear if your old 5 spokes, non PAS.
I've got Dunlop SP9000's on the BV which are good but I'd put Toyo T1R's on the rear when they are replaced as the toyo's are brill on the Griff. Got this combo on the 500 and it works well - same wear rate (280).
It is a real problem getting the same make front and rear in the correct rating. SP9000 seems the only option as Toyo are only availble in V rated forj the 15"'s. I spoke with Toyo and tried to convince themn to continue with the Z rating but 5-6,000 Tivs (Griff/Chim) isn't enough to excite them.
FFG
LordGrover,
I fitted Toyo T1-R V rated to the front and ZR W rated on the rear to my CHIM - same sizes that you should have. I confirmed this was acceptable with my insurance company. They had no worries for the front as long as I had Z on the rear.
So check with them before purchase. I wanted Toyo because I'm used to them and I'm on my third set.
Bob
I fitted Toyo T1-R V rated to the front and ZR W rated on the rear to my CHIM - same sizes that you should have. I confirmed this was acceptable with my insurance company. They had no worries for the front as long as I had Z on the rear.
So check with them before purchase. I wanted Toyo because I'm used to them and I'm on my third set.
Bob
bobs4c said:
LordGrover,
I fitted Toyo T1-R V rated to the front and ZR W rated on the rear to my CHIM - same sizes that you should have. I confirmed this was acceptable with my insurance company. They had no worries for the front as long as I had Z on the rear.
So check with them before purchase. I wanted Toyo because I'm used to them and I'm on my third set.
Bob
I fitted Toyo T1-R V rated to the front and ZR W rated on the rear to my CHIM - same sizes that you should have. I confirmed this was acceptable with my insurance company. They had no worries for the front as long as I had Z on the rear.
So check with them before purchase. I wanted Toyo because I'm used to them and I'm on my third set.
Bob
You have me confused there Bob... You say the insurers were happy so long as you have Zs on the rear yet you have Ws...? What's this "ZR W" business then?
According to a chart on the goodrich website:
<tt>Q : 99 mph
R : 106 mph
S : 112 mph
T : 118 mph
H : 131 mph
VR:>131 mph
V : 149 mph
ZR:>149 mph
W : 168 mph
Y : 186 mph</tt>
btw, hoping to see you next Wednesday.
LordGrover said:
bobs4c said:
LordGrover,
I fitted Toyo T1-R V rated to the front and ZR W rated on the rear to my CHIM - same sizes that you should have. I confirmed this was acceptable with my insurance company. They had no worries for the front as long as I had Z on the rear.
So check with them before purchase. I wanted Toyo because I'm used to them and I'm on my third set.
Bob
I fitted Toyo T1-R V rated to the front and ZR W rated on the rear to my CHIM - same sizes that you should have. I confirmed this was acceptable with my insurance company. They had no worries for the front as long as I had Z on the rear.
So check with them before purchase. I wanted Toyo because I'm used to them and I'm on my third set.
Bob
You have me confused there Bob... You say the insurers were happy so long as you have Zs on the rear yet you have Ws...? What's this "ZR W" business then?
According to a chart on the goodrich website:
<tt>Q : 99 mph
R : 106 mph
S : 112 mph
T : 118 mph
H : 131 mph
VR:>131 mph
V : 149 mph
ZR:>149 mph
W : 168 mph
Y : 186 mph</tt>
btw, hoping to see you next Wednesday.
Z was as you say >149 mph, but at the time this was VERY quick. Cars then got faster and "Z" out of date, so additional letters were used to cater for the higher speed cars, quoting a maximum speed capability. Some manufacturers retain the Z in the ZR form before the diameter value - ZR 15, ZR 16 etc, but add the 'correct' speed rating after the diameter - ZR 16 92W, which is good for 168 mph, or in my case for the 15" fronts, R 15 88V.
Hope this helps, I'll show you an e-mail I received from Toyo explaining this on Wednesday.
Bob
Edited by bobs4c on Wednesday 4th April 17:15
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