RE: TVR Power offers damper upgrade
Monday 26th February 2007
TVR Power has issued pricing for retro-fitment of the well-known Bilstein dampers to the Griffith, Chimaera, T350, Tamora, Tuscan, Cerbera and Tuscan S.
TVR Power offers damper upgrade
Prices released for new suspension
Griff, Chim and Tuscan S
Griffith / Chimaera: front c0422, rear D0351
Tuscan S: front c0968, rear d0894
Prices (ex. VAT)
Parts: four dampers at £110 each: £440; four bottom bushes @ £7.53 each; four top bushes @ £11.73 each
Labour: Three hours @ £55 per hour: £165
Total including fitting and VAT: £801.40
T350, Tamora and Tuscan
T350, Tamora and Tuscan: front C1004, rear D0939
Cerbera: front C1003, rear D0938
Prices (ex. VAT)
Parts: Eight bushes @ £7.53 each
Labour: Three hours @ £55 per hour: £165
Total including fitting and VAT: £781.66
Discussion
HarryW said:
jonny tvr said:
why would you go for this option when there are Nitrons available, or do these offer something different?
because its aimed at a lower segment of the market Think I'll stick with either Gaz or Protech TBH, at least until a few people have reported on them positively.
I think some here are missing the point. The TVR suspension aftermarket has long been dominated by kits from motorsport-oriented outfits, i.e. fully adjustable - and to drop prices to 'affordable' levels some of them work with the cheaper twin-tube dampers.
If we look at the supension aftermarket for 'normal' cars, you'll find there's several levels:
1) OE replacement dampers; gas-filled for anything with a semblance of performance, twin tube technology
2)'Uprated or 'sport' dampers; gas-filled and monotube technology
3) 'Budget' suspension kit with lowering springs, often adjustable spring platforms and twin-tube dampers. Aimed at the 'yoof' market - folks who want to 'slam' their car but are not really looking for a dynamic improvement
4) 'Performance' suspension kit - springs and monotube dampers. Adjustable spring platforms and dampers optional.
Now for anyone interested in improving the dynamic qualities of their car, either 2) or 4) are logical choices.
AFAIK 2) has not been offered before for TVRs (and knowing Bilstein I assume they wouldn't peddle anything less than monotube technology as an aftermarket upgrade, especially for cars that came with either their own dampers or Konis as original equipment).
If, like me, you're using your TVR for touring and maybe the odd trackday (in a simple and straightforward 'arrive, drive, pick up groceries on the way home' fashion), a set of high-spcification (i.e. monotube) dampers that's specifically developed to give an optimum damping response for a given car/suspension set up is ideal and I would not know why I should spend more. What Nitron, Ohlins et all offer above and beyond that is not so much quality, but the option for a bepoke set up that can be changed for instance when you're out to find the last ounce of performance for a given track - and this is offered on a budget by others in the market, but frankly if I were that serious about track day performance I wouldn't settle for anything but monotubes.
If we look at the supension aftermarket for 'normal' cars, you'll find there's several levels:
1) OE replacement dampers; gas-filled for anything with a semblance of performance, twin tube technology
2)'Uprated or 'sport' dampers; gas-filled and monotube technology
3) 'Budget' suspension kit with lowering springs, often adjustable spring platforms and twin-tube dampers. Aimed at the 'yoof' market - folks who want to 'slam' their car but are not really looking for a dynamic improvement
4) 'Performance' suspension kit - springs and monotube dampers. Adjustable spring platforms and dampers optional.
Now for anyone interested in improving the dynamic qualities of their car, either 2) or 4) are logical choices.
AFAIK 2) has not been offered before for TVRs (and knowing Bilstein I assume they wouldn't peddle anything less than monotube technology as an aftermarket upgrade, especially for cars that came with either their own dampers or Konis as original equipment).
If, like me, you're using your TVR for touring and maybe the odd trackday (in a simple and straightforward 'arrive, drive, pick up groceries on the way home' fashion), a set of high-spcification (i.e. monotube) dampers that's specifically developed to give an optimum damping response for a given car/suspension set up is ideal and I would not know why I should spend more. What Nitron, Ohlins et all offer above and beyond that is not so much quality, but the option for a bepoke set up that can be changed for instance when you're out to find the last ounce of performance for a given track - and this is offered on a budget by others in the market, but frankly if I were that serious about track day performance I wouldn't settle for anything but monotubes.
900T-R said:
1) OE replacement dampers; gas-filled for anything with a semblance of performance, twin tube technology
2)'Uprated or 'sport' dampers; gas-filled and monotube technology
3) 'Budget' suspension kit with lowering springs, often adjustable spring platforms and twin-tube dampers. Aimed at the 'yoof' market - folks who want to 'slam' their car but are not really looking for a dynamic improvement
4) 'Performance' suspension kit - springs and monotube dampers. Adjustable spring platforms and dampers optional.
Now for anyone interested in improving the dynamic qualities of their car, either 2) or 4) are logical choices.
I'm not sure what the difference between (2) and (4) is, unless it's adjustability? Most aftermarket dampers in this market are adjustable, I think simply because the production volumes are not high enough to justify producing different valving to suit every application.
GreenV8S said:
I'm not sure what the difference between (2) and (4) is, unless it's adjustability?
Dampers vs. complete suspension 'kit'.
GreenV8S said:
Most aftermarket dampers in this market are adjustable, I think simply because the production volumes are not high enough to justify producing different valving to suit every application.
Bilstein seems to have done it, tho' - except for the Griff and Chim (does there actually exist a difference in spring/damper rate between the two after''96)? which are lumped together. The bigger outfits like Koni and Bilstein do valve all their applications seperately, minimum feasible amount is about 50/year.
900T-R said:
Dampers vs. complete suspension 'kit'.
The difference being what? Springs? It seems to me that keeping or changing the springs is a non-issue; unless you are replacing the dampers with an identical spec you will almost certainly want to change the spring spec, and in many cases you will have no option since the old springs won't physically fit the new dampers. The cost of springs is very small in the scheme of things and I don't think this should be a big factor in the decision about which dampers to go for.
GreenV8S said:
900T-R said:
Dampers vs. complete suspension 'kit'.
The difference being what? Springs? It seems to me that keeping or changing the springs is a non-issue; unless you are replacing the dampers with an identical spec you will almost certainly want to change the spring spec.
If the OE dampers were perfect, yes. But they're not and the likes of Koni and Bilstein carefully valve their AM dampers to suit the OE springs unless specifically stated otherwise. Many cars can be tranformed by simply replacing the dampers, and I believe TVRs - especially of the Griff/Chim/Cerb/Tuscan Mk 1 generation - are likely to be among them.
As said before, until now we simply weren't offered the choice and where I can make a very worthwhile improvement on say, a Saab with £260 worth of (monotube, gas filled) Konis, with TVRs it was either the less than optimal OE spec (underdamped, especially at the rear), spending (far) north of a grand for Nitrons or Ohlins, or spend like £6-800 and still be saddled with twintube technology...
From Ben Lang - Former Chief Chassis Engineer - TVR Design & Development.
In late 2004, following a nine year gap the decision was taken to reinstate Bilstein as OE damper supplier for all TVR models. Bilstein had traditionally supplied units for Griffith and Chimaera, but since 1995 the bulk of production units had been supplied by HBE. This encompassed Cerbera, Tuscan, Tamora and T350 models.
The motivation for the change was that Bilstein could offer better quality and more durable units backed up by assistance and input in the development of ride and handling. The first car to benefit from this was the Sagaris, followed in the summer of 2005 by the Tuscan 2 and Tuscan convertible. The level of development carried out on these cars far exceeded what had been carried out on previous models. The positive results achieved are evident in some of the road tests published in the motoring press. One of the main improvements, especially noticeable on Tuscan models, is the improvement in ride quality.
In addition to the development of the OE units, TVR was also obliged to develop spares units for older models originally equiped with HBE dampers, without any change of springs or anti-roll bars. Again, a marked improvement in ride and handling quality was experienced when compared with the original parts.
Listed below is the range of Bilstein dampers currently available from TVR power. If you are looking for cost effective, durable and properly developed dampers for your TVR then they represent a very good option. They may be more expensive than some other "non-adjustable" units available on the aftermarket, but the quality justifies any additional cost. There are a number of circlip grooves on the damper bodies which allow different ride heights to be achieved, but I would recommend that the factory settings are used as they give the best handling characteristics.
We are also planning to introduce a 'sport' setting upgrade kit for Tamora and T350, as it is not possible to upgade these cars with the Tuscan 2 dampers, due to the size of the top damper bush.
Original Equipment Units
Griffith/Chimaera OE.
Sagaris OE
Tuscan 2 & Convertible OE sport setting. (Requires rear spring change to upgrade).
Tuscan 2 & Convertible OE comfort setting. (Requires rear spring change to upgrade).
Spares Units
Cerbera retrofit - (Replaces original units without change to springs or anti-roll bars).
Tuscan, Tamora, T350 retrofit - (Replaces original units without change to springs or anti-roll bars).
In late 2004, following a nine year gap the decision was taken to reinstate Bilstein as OE damper supplier for all TVR models. Bilstein had traditionally supplied units for Griffith and Chimaera, but since 1995 the bulk of production units had been supplied by HBE. This encompassed Cerbera, Tuscan, Tamora and T350 models.
The motivation for the change was that Bilstein could offer better quality and more durable units backed up by assistance and input in the development of ride and handling. The first car to benefit from this was the Sagaris, followed in the summer of 2005 by the Tuscan 2 and Tuscan convertible. The level of development carried out on these cars far exceeded what had been carried out on previous models. The positive results achieved are evident in some of the road tests published in the motoring press. One of the main improvements, especially noticeable on Tuscan models, is the improvement in ride quality.
In addition to the development of the OE units, TVR was also obliged to develop spares units for older models originally equiped with HBE dampers, without any change of springs or anti-roll bars. Again, a marked improvement in ride and handling quality was experienced when compared with the original parts.
Listed below is the range of Bilstein dampers currently available from TVR power. If you are looking for cost effective, durable and properly developed dampers for your TVR then they represent a very good option. They may be more expensive than some other "non-adjustable" units available on the aftermarket, but the quality justifies any additional cost. There are a number of circlip grooves on the damper bodies which allow different ride heights to be achieved, but I would recommend that the factory settings are used as they give the best handling characteristics.
We are also planning to introduce a 'sport' setting upgrade kit for Tamora and T350, as it is not possible to upgade these cars with the Tuscan 2 dampers, due to the size of the top damper bush.
Original Equipment Units
Griffith/Chimaera OE.
Sagaris OE
Tuscan 2 & Convertible OE sport setting. (Requires rear spring change to upgrade).
Tuscan 2 & Convertible OE comfort setting. (Requires rear spring change to upgrade).
Spares Units
Cerbera retrofit - (Replaces original units without change to springs or anti-roll bars).
Tuscan, Tamora, T350 retrofit - (Replaces original units without change to springs or anti-roll bars).
Tvr Power said:
900T-R said:
So the units for Chims and Griffs are indeed new developments, and not the same as the Bilsteins that came with my '93 as OE?
Correct
Ben - are these new Bilstein dampers the same as the ones fitted as OE on the Sagaris?
I have an '03 T350 with worn rears. I've started browsing these forums for info. I'm not interested in high spec Nitrons etc but are the new Bilsteins comparable to the Gaz/Protechs that seem to get hyped a great deal on PH?
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