Discussion
Yes, Yes, I know its been done to death, so no arguing chaps purleeeez 
I've decided I'll do the one-stop job and scrape the chassis then POR-15 it.
Only, can I do it peacemeal?
I've got the manifolds off at the minute and want to do the tops of the rails which I normally wouldn't be able to reach. Do I have to do those particular rails top and bottom for best effect?
Is it OK to use POR-15 in sections because I don't have time to do the entire chassis in one go right now - although it does need doing and will be done before this summer.
Ta
IanB
I've decided I'll do the one-stop job and scrape the chassis then POR-15 it.
Only, can I do it peacemeal?
I've got the manifolds off at the minute and want to do the tops of the rails which I normally wouldn't be able to reach. Do I have to do those particular rails top and bottom for best effect?
Is it OK to use POR-15 in sections because I don't have time to do the entire chassis in one go right now - although it does need doing and will be done before this summer.
Ta
IanB
mmmm. Back to square #1
Just talked to the tech guys at Frosts. Because I don't want (read: can't be arsed) to sand all the existing powder coating back to bare metal POR-15 isn't for me.
They recommend scraping the rust off then using S400 Granville Rust Converter then P400 Blackcoat over the top of everything.
When I asked if Blackcoat isn't just the same as Hamerite he told me to chuck that stuff over the hedge
Just talked to the tech guys at Frosts. Because I don't want (read: can't be arsed) to sand all the existing powder coating back to bare metal POR-15 isn't for me.
They recommend scraping the rust off then using S400 Granville Rust Converter then P400 Blackcoat over the top of everything.
When I asked if Blackcoat isn't just the same as Hamerite he told me to chuck that stuff over the hedge
barreti said:
mmmm. Back to square #1
Just talked to the tech guys at Frosts. Because I don't want (read: can't be arsed) to sand all the existing powder coating back to bare metal POR-15 isn't for me.
They recommend scraping the rust off then using S400 Granville Rust Converter then P400 Blackcoat over the top of everything.
When I asked if Blackcoat isn't just the same as Hamerite he told me to chuck that stuff over the hedge
As far as I can tell BlackCoat is exactly the same product as Chassis Black. Not sure why they have two names for the same thing. Just talked to the tech guys at Frosts. Because I don't want (read: can't be arsed) to sand all the existing powder coating back to bare metal POR-15 isn't for me.
They recommend scraping the rust off then using S400 Granville Rust Converter then P400 Blackcoat over the top of everything.
When I asked if Blackcoat isn't just the same as Hamerite he told me to chuck that stuff over the hedge
Billy_rfc said:
How much of the Blackcoat do they think you will need?
He didn't say how much of any product to use, probably because I told him I was only going to be working on the front end of the chassis right now whilst I've got the manifolds off. Sorry.
icb said:
On the Griff I used Frost's Marine Clean first, then Metal Ready, then the Por 15, followed by Chassis paint. Bit over the top and right effin messy but worth it at the end.
Was that it? No rubbing the powder coat down to metal first? When I told the techie at Frosts I wasn't interested in trying to get all the powder coating off he poo'd the idea of using POR-15 and sent me down the route mentioned.
I thought Metal Ready was an etch primer so POR-15 bonds. Will it prep the coated stuff so POR-15 bonds.
Just how difficult is it to rub the chassis back to bare metal - anybody know?
icb said:
More use for your very useful one eyed snake!!
He he, you remember me then
Yeah, sorry about the one-eyed-snake comment, I was feeling mischievous that day
I've just done the 'back to bare metal' thing on the front half of the chassis with the body on and it was an unbelievable pita. The metal ready stuff isn't any form of primer, it's an acidic solution that converts surface rust to an inert form so that it can be painted over. Frosts' tech line advised that it would be OK to paint POR15 over plastic coating (not the same protection as you would get painting straight to steel, but it does stick and provide a tough sealed surface) but not to use metal ready (which makes sense because acid on plastic coating doesn't seem like a helpful combination).
Quinny said:
I know many of you are por-15 fans, but just for a bit of info
This months Practical Classics, did a test on rust proofing primers, and the top product according to them was,
Bilt Hamber Electrox
£19.95 per litre
Available from Bilt Hamber 01277 658899
They recon it was much better than the other products, not just in ease of application, but finish and protection.
Out of interest por-15 came 5th out of 6 products tested.
Maybe its worth a look??
This months Practical Classics, did a test on rust proofing primers, and the top product according to them was,
Bilt Hamber Electrox
£19.95 per litre
Available from Bilt Hamber 01277 658899
They recon it was much better than the other products, not just in ease of application, but finish and protection.
Out of interest por-15 came 5th out of 6 products tested.
Maybe its worth a look??
Hey, Quinny. Are you cold at your place or are you sorted?
Quinny said:
I know many of you are por-15 fans, but just for a bit of info
This months Practical Classics, did a test on rust proofing primers, and the top product according to them was,
Bilt Hamber Electrox
£19.95 per litre
Available from Bilt Hamber 01277 658899
They recon it was much better than the other products, not just in ease of application, but finish and protection.
Out of interest por-15 came 5th out of 6 products tested.
Maybe its worth a look??
This months Practical Classics, did a test on rust proofing primers, and the top product according to them was,
Bilt Hamber Electrox
£19.95 per litre
Available from Bilt Hamber 01277 658899
They recon it was much better than the other products, not just in ease of application, but finish and protection.
Out of interest por-15 came 5th out of 6 products tested.
Maybe its worth a look??
I used POR-15 on another car and the rust came through after 6 months. IMHO it's rubbish. The zinc primer I used on my TVR shows no signs off rust coming through. I overcoated it in areas prone to flying stones etc with stone guard, and waxoyl everywhere else. Seems to have worked a treat. Is Electrox a zinc based product?
Further thoughts:
Zinc primer is plain old paint - with zinc. You can paint it over metal, (cleaned up) rust and the original chassis coating.
Chassis black is enamel isn't it? Isn't Hammerite just enamel with bits of glass and other magic ingredients? I've Hammerited my suspension components, over zinc primer and it's standing up to the elements fine.
Just ordered the stuff from Bilt Hamber. Thanks for the advice Quinny.
The only downside is it won't be with me until Wednesday
but I suppose that gives me time to do the prep properly.
I asked about what I need to do to prep the surface and a good scrape followed by a going over with abrasive paper is their recommendation. It will paint over both bare metal and coated and for Griffter I asked what it is and it IS a Zinc based product.
Apparently a 1ltr tin weighs in at 3kg!
No special storage requirements like I've seen mentioned with POR-15 either. No standing on your head while covering the tin with vaseline and cling film, just put the lid back on and seal it properly.
Right, I'm off to follow the other advice Quinny kindly gave on the Engine Heatshield thread. That should keep me busy until this stuff arrives.
The only downside is it won't be with me until Wednesday
but I suppose that gives me time to do the prep properly. I asked about what I need to do to prep the surface and a good scrape followed by a going over with abrasive paper is their recommendation. It will paint over both bare metal and coated and for Griffter I asked what it is and it IS a Zinc based product.
Apparently a 1ltr tin weighs in at 3kg!
No special storage requirements like I've seen mentioned with POR-15 either. No standing on your head while covering the tin with vaseline and cling film, just put the lid back on and seal it properly.
Right, I'm off to follow the other advice Quinny kindly gave on the Engine Heatshield thread. That should keep me busy until this stuff arrives.
Quinny said:
I know many of you are por-15 fans, but just for a bit of info
This months Practical Classics, did a test on rust proofing primers, and the top product according to them was,
Bilt Hamber Electrox
£19.95 per litre
Available from Bilt Hamber 01277 658899
They recon it was much better than the other products, not just in ease of application, but finish and protection.
Out of interest por-15 came 5th out of 6 products tested.
Maybe its worth a look??
I'll have a look for that, see how they tested them. Maybe the article was a long time in the making, and they managed to weather some test pieces over a number of years to confirm the products protection values. This months Practical Classics, did a test on rust proofing primers, and the top product according to them was,
Bilt Hamber Electrox
£19.95 per litre
Available from Bilt Hamber 01277 658899
They recon it was much better than the other products, not just in ease of application, but finish and protection.
Out of interest por-15 came 5th out of 6 products tested.
Maybe its worth a look??
I'm just refinishing my wishbones in POR-15, and my first attempt went somewhat awry. I stripped back to bar metal (as usual the factory powdercoat didn't take a lot of removal) and painted them up with POR, but it got a bit cold overnight as it cured and I seem to have some nasty wrinkling/bubbling of the finish. Not wanting any packets with bare metal behind I decided to rub back again and have another go. I can confirm that removing POR-15 is a PITA! Wish I'd used Hammerite now, I could have scraped that off with a fingernail*
* I am being facetious of course!
POR 15 is sensitive to the way it's applied. If you've got shot blasted metal with a rough surface that is then treated with Metal Ready it'll adhere and protect VERY well. If the surface is not well prepped it's not so great.
I've used POR 15 and it still looks at good as the day I did it. It's honestly absoloutely perfect still (which I'm pleased about!).
Is Hammerite No.1 any different to normal Hammerite, if it is then the results from that test don't sit well with my experiences.
I'll buy a tin of Bilt Hamber to keep on the shelf though, I'd like to give it a try as and when.
I've used POR 15 and it still looks at good as the day I did it. It's honestly absoloutely perfect still (which I'm pleased about!).
Is Hammerite No.1 any different to normal Hammerite, if it is then the results from that test don't sit well with my experiences.
I'll buy a tin of Bilt Hamber to keep on the shelf though, I'd like to give it a try as and when.
Edited by David H on Friday 26th January 11:35
David H said:
POR 15 is sensitive to the way it's applied. If you've got shot blasted metal with a rough surface that is then treated with Metal Ready it'll adhere and protect VERY well. If the surface is not well prepped it's not so great.
My thoughts exactly. The terms "ease of application" and "protection" don't sit that well together IMHO. You get what you sweat for in this instance. Do the job properly and POR is unbeatable. If you just want something you can slop on to anything and get a result then POR probably shouldn't be on your shopping list. Edited by victormeldrew on Friday 26th January 11:41
If blackcoat is the same as chassis black then I wouldn't bother. Chassis black seems to need a perfect surface, whereas POR15 has stuck to my chassis rails powdercoat or not like glue for the last two years.
I used to chassis black every year and by the end of the year the stones had destroyed the chassis black, not so with POR15.
So my advice is the opposite of FROST?
I used to chassis black every year and by the end of the year the stones had destroyed the chassis black, not so with POR15.
So my advice is the opposite of FROST?
Quinny said:
Basically they coated a test panel, scored it from corner to corner, then left them outside for 3 weeks and sprayed them everyday with salt water.
I need whatever they scored it with then to get back to metal on my wishbones! Seriously though, did they measure how hard it was to score down to metal? On a properly cured product? No info on this Bilt-Hamber stuff on their website 
. There is info on Hydrate-80, which sounds remarkably like POR-15, with similar requirements for proper prep and application to clean bare metal. Also Practical Classics approved. Bit of a theme there? Or maybe they just produce a lot of good products? Cynic, moi?
. There is info on Hydrate-80, which sounds remarkably like POR-15, with similar requirements for proper prep and application to clean bare metal. Also Practical Classics approved. Bit of a theme there? Or maybe they just produce a lot of good products? Cynic, moi?Before I went ahead and bought the stuff Quinny is on about I did a Google search based just on the name Bilt Hamber
It is raved about on the Ford RS & SAAB forums and that along with the C&SC test were enough to convince me to buy it.
I'll have the engine bay done within about a week or so and I'll be able to let you know about its initial application after that if you're interested.
It is raved about on the Ford RS & SAAB forums and that along with the C&SC test were enough to convince me to buy it.
I'll have the engine bay done within about a week or so and I'll be able to let you know about its initial application after that if you're interested.
Certainly the Aus importer and distributor of POR (PPC) also distributes Bilt Hamber stuff, but that's probably just because they deal in rust potection products generally. The Deox rust remover looks worth a look BTW!
Not finding much about "Electrox" in the net, it's obviously a new product, so I doubt I'll find any long term tests. I did find this comment:
It will be interesting to see how you get on with it Barreti. Don't suppose in the interest of science you'd paint half your engine bay in this stuff and half in POR?
Not finding much about "Electrox" in the net, it's obviously a new product, so I doubt I'll find any long term tests. I did find this comment:
Classic Cars forum contributor said:
"Also check out products from Bilt-Hamber - they usually have a 2-page spread in PC, also a good web site. Not sure where you can get it from, I guess direct from the web site?"
It will be interesting to see how you get on with it Barreti. Don't suppose in the interest of science you'd paint half your engine bay in this stuff and half in POR?
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