OK TVR / BA is gone what can we do?
Discussion
Right then TVR / BA is gone what can we do about it, well nothing really or can we?
If NS does open up another factory and start to build cars with the TVR Label, we can do something, we can all stand up and tell everyone not to buy them, inform everyone what we think of his business management. How he treats staff and generally help crush his dreams.
None of that is untrue or falsely representing him, but true facts of what we have all witnessed over the past two years.
We may never harm him in the pocket and cause him or his family money problems like the workers at Blackpool are facing. But we can harm his dream, no matter what country he tries to sell the cars in we can spread the word of his low down promise breaking management skills.
Other than that we can do nothing
Sad days more for the workers now than us the drivers.
Lets stop him doing it again and spread the word were ever he goes.
Colin L
PS: Anyone got a pic of the NS taken in the last year, my dart board needs refreshed!!!
So TVR is dead, lets kill the next TVR? Sounds a great plan to me.
TVR has fai,ed in the past few years because of lack of sales. PW knew it, NS didn't. With little business acument, NS has seen the company fail and IMHO has shown some inexperience when managing the fallout.
However, I still love TVR's, and any future car that is produced which maintains the TVR spirit and badge would be a good thing. Why attempt to sabotage it?
As a TVRCC RO, I think your comments lack sound judgement too...
D
TVR has fai,ed in the past few years because of lack of sales. PW knew it, NS didn't. With little business acument, NS has seen the company fail and IMHO has shown some inexperience when managing the fallout.
However, I still love TVR's, and any future car that is produced which maintains the TVR spirit and badge would be a good thing. Why attempt to sabotage it?
As a TVRCC RO, I think your comments lack sound judgement too...
D
I think we have to put aside our own emotions and personal feelings towards NS and remain objective in our discussions.I am sure NS didn't set out to close the business down and pour £millions down the drain. If the new TVR builds a great car, at an affordable price with all the right elements ,I would buy one, as would alot of other people, whether it's built in Blackpool or Milan !! OK I would much prefer Blackpool, but I'm trying to be realistic.
Building cars is a business, NOT A CHARITABLE OPERATION. The reason TVR closed in my own view is that they went upmarket with dreams of their own engines etc. and it fell apart. The cars became too expensive with poor resale values and a reputation, albeit not always deserved, of poor reliability and as a result sales slumped. Asking loyal buyers to put £50,000 plus in to cars, with an engine with known problemsfrom a sales point of view is not a great idea, especially if it's your sole car, not a week end toy. The competition ie Z4, Boxster etc mopped up a lot of doubters, even if they didn't offer anything like the same thrills.
I feel most sorry for the employees,as they must think they are in a horror film and I only hope they all find new jobs in the New Year.
The whole thing has left me feeling very sad, the only good news is that I still have my Griffith , which thanks to Ian and his team at Sportmotive is going better than ever.
Building cars is a business, NOT A CHARITABLE OPERATION. The reason TVR closed in my own view is that they went upmarket with dreams of their own engines etc. and it fell apart. The cars became too expensive with poor resale values and a reputation, albeit not always deserved, of poor reliability and as a result sales slumped. Asking loyal buyers to put £50,000 plus in to cars, with an engine with known problemsfrom a sales point of view is not a great idea, especially if it's your sole car, not a week end toy. The competition ie Z4, Boxster etc mopped up a lot of doubters, even if they didn't offer anything like the same thrills.
I feel most sorry for the employees,as they must think they are in a horror film and I only hope they all find new jobs in the New Year.
The whole thing has left me feeling very sad, the only good news is that I still have my Griffith , which thanks to Ian and his team at Sportmotive is going better than ever.
As much as I would like to agree with the original post, I think Claire is right in that it wouldn't be fair to line the next lot of TVR workers up for a fall.
I still personally hope & think that the management will get their come-uppence. I think when you have behaved badly something always come back to bite your ass eventually!
I still personally hope & think that the management will get their come-uppence. I think when you have behaved badly something always come back to bite your ass eventually!
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 28th December 19:21
Its not a good idea.
TVR still exists on paper-its now little more than three letters that might still evoke a performance brand in the minds on those who have not heard of the developments over the past couple of years-by definition new owners.It might still be made to work-after all the new Marcos has little to do with the old Marcos other than a vauge set of associations of high performance ,limited run, hand-built British cars.
But- it is not the TVR current owners know and love and want back.
There was very little that needed to be done after PW left. Sort the Six ( done, and this isn't a debate anymore ),Test the cars properly ( Done) Incorporate the nessacery mods ( oh, er...not really done ),Introduce a V8 ( nope) scale back to a profitable size of company ( nope) and it would have survived.
So what can be done to resurrect what we all signed up too?
At this point in time not a whole lot,which is desperately sad ( although not as sad as the jubilant grave dancing by some 'new' and 'italian' PH members) . In time one of two things will happen.
The Russian gambit will pay off and there will be a steady stream of British designed sub-contracted assembly cars that are called TVR that sell at around 80k to 100k. They will have to be fantastically good to survive in this market and if they do its will be a job well done.
Or it really will go completely bang and the Russian will hold a fire sale.
If this latter option 'sit will mean TVR may well rise again in some limited form.
It's happened before,TVR has often been rescued and the Russian is one in a long list of people who have put their money on the line to try and make TVR fly. Personally I find recent events appauling-not just because of the ethics which have been beyond contempt ( And before I get it in the neck for being an unrealistic socialist wanker who doesn't get business I have run a company for over 22 years and have mortgaged everything I own at least three times during that period to build it so I do know a bit about business risk)but because it was all so avoidable. PW and NS both have a lot to answer for.
One day there will be a TVR we know and love,not because of business reasons but because there is a need for a high performance British sports car that can poke Porsche and Ferrari where it really hurts.
All it takes is time.
TVR still exists on paper-its now little more than three letters that might still evoke a performance brand in the minds on those who have not heard of the developments over the past couple of years-by definition new owners.It might still be made to work-after all the new Marcos has little to do with the old Marcos other than a vauge set of associations of high performance ,limited run, hand-built British cars.
But- it is not the TVR current owners know and love and want back.
There was very little that needed to be done after PW left. Sort the Six ( done, and this isn't a debate anymore ),Test the cars properly ( Done) Incorporate the nessacery mods ( oh, er...not really done ),Introduce a V8 ( nope) scale back to a profitable size of company ( nope) and it would have survived.
So what can be done to resurrect what we all signed up too?
At this point in time not a whole lot,which is desperately sad ( although not as sad as the jubilant grave dancing by some 'new' and 'italian' PH members) . In time one of two things will happen.
The Russian gambit will pay off and there will be a steady stream of British designed sub-contracted assembly cars that are called TVR that sell at around 80k to 100k. They will have to be fantastically good to survive in this market and if they do its will be a job well done.
Or it really will go completely bang and the Russian will hold a fire sale.
If this latter option 'sit will mean TVR may well rise again in some limited form.
It's happened before,TVR has often been rescued and the Russian is one in a long list of people who have put their money on the line to try and make TVR fly. Personally I find recent events appauling-not just because of the ethics which have been beyond contempt ( And before I get it in the neck for being an unrealistic socialist wanker who doesn't get business I have run a company for over 22 years and have mortgaged everything I own at least three times during that period to build it so I do know a bit about business risk)but because it was all so avoidable. PW and NS both have a lot to answer for.
One day there will be a TVR we know and love,not because of business reasons but because there is a need for a high performance British sports car that can poke Porsche and Ferrari where it really hurts.
All it takes is time.
Colin L said:
Right then TVR / BA is gone what can we do about it, well nothing really or can we?
If NS does open up another factory and start to build cars with the TVR Label, we can do something, we can all stand up and tell everyone not to buy them, inform everyone what we think of his business management. How he treats staff and generally help crush his dreams.
None of that is untrue or falsely representing him, but true facts of what we have all witnessed over the past two years.
We may never harm him in the pocket and cause him or his family money problems like the workers at Blackpool are facing. But we can harm his dream, no matter what country he tries to sell the cars in we can spread the word of his low down promise breaking management skills.
Other than that we can do nothing
Sad days more for the workers now than us the drivers.
Lets stop him doing it again and spread the word were ever he goes.
Colin L
PS: Anyone got a pic of the NS taken in the last year, my dart board needs refreshed!!!
I think this forum has enough TVR bashing without you starting your own little vendetta
it's happened, get over it. If you don't want to buy a TVR in the future that's your choice but sabotaging future TVR sales is just Sad. _deejay_ said:
So TVR is dead, lets kill the next TVR? Sounds a great plan to me.
TVR has fai,ed in the past few years because of lack of sales. PW knew it, NS didn't. With little business acument, NS has seen the company fail and IMHO has shown some inexperience when managing the fallout.
However, I still love TVR's, and any future car that is produced which maintains the TVR spirit and badge would be a good thing. Why attempt to sabotage it?
As a TVRCC RO, I think your comments lack sound judgement too...
D
DITTO TVR has fai,ed in the past few years because of lack of sales. PW knew it, NS didn't. With little business acument, NS has seen the company fail and IMHO has shown some inexperience when managing the fallout.
However, I still love TVR's, and any future car that is produced which maintains the TVR spirit and badge would be a good thing. Why attempt to sabotage it?
As a TVRCC RO, I think your comments lack sound judgement too...
D
Hi
I think some of you have either misunderstood or chosen to misunderstand ColinL.
Of course we should all bear witness where possible to the great disservice and ill-treatment of the TVR workforce - maybe by publicising the views of TVR owners who through PH and other sources have experienced the ludicrous 'hokey-cokey management' practised for the last two and a half years at TVR. Then to top it all off the workers are shafted just before Christmas and told you're not getting paid. Surely future employees of this management where-ever they may live need to know this background. I know if I was a future employee I would want to know how TVR treated former employees.
I find Gaffer's view particularly perplexing - wake up woman! TVR management have caused the problems for staff NOT PHers pointing out the deficiencies.
Ricardo
I think some of you have either misunderstood or chosen to misunderstand ColinL.
Of course we should all bear witness where possible to the great disservice and ill-treatment of the TVR workforce - maybe by publicising the views of TVR owners who through PH and other sources have experienced the ludicrous 'hokey-cokey management' practised for the last two and a half years at TVR. Then to top it all off the workers are shafted just before Christmas and told you're not getting paid. Surely future employees of this management where-ever they may live need to know this background. I know if I was a future employee I would want to know how TVR treated former employees.
I find Gaffer's view particularly perplexing - wake up woman! TVR management have caused the problems for staff NOT PHers pointing out the deficiencies.
Ricardo
Edited by Ricardo Bertone on Thursday 28th December 21:51
Edited by Ricardo Bertone on Thursday 28th December 22:06
OMG you really are a tosser arnt you Jigs..?
ColinL has virtually said he wants the next TVR to fail and in doing so putting the next batch of workers in the same boat as the current lot.
That to me and a lot of others is unacceptable. My Mum is directly involved in this and she doesnt want this to happen to anyone.
Management refers to a wide range of people at TVR - I suspect you mean certain people not all management.
This is precisely why I havent posted in a month or so. And now I shall slip away quietly again. Maybe not to come back with the likes of you around causing untold blood boiling.
Bye Bye.
Claire
ColinL has virtually said he wants the next TVR to fail and in doing so putting the next batch of workers in the same boat as the current lot.
That to me and a lot of others is unacceptable. My Mum is directly involved in this and she doesnt want this to happen to anyone.
Management refers to a wide range of people at TVR - I suspect you mean certain people not all management.
This is precisely why I havent posted in a month or so. And now I shall slip away quietly again. Maybe not to come back with the likes of you around causing untold blood boiling.
Bye Bye.
Claire
Ricardo Bertone said:
Hi
I think some of you have either misunderstood or chosen to misunderstand ColinL.
Of course we should all bear witness where possible to the great disservice and ill-treatment of the TVR workforce - maybe by publicising the views of TVR owners who through PH and other sources have experienced the ludicrous 'hokey-cokey management' practised for the last two and a half years at TVR.
I find Gaffer's view particularly perplexing - wake up woman TVR mamnagement have caused the problems for staff NOT PHers pointing out the deficiencies.
Ricardo
I think some of you have either misunderstood or chosen to misunderstand ColinL.
Of course we should all bear witness where possible to the great disservice and ill-treatment of the TVR workforce - maybe by publicising the views of TVR owners who through PH and other sources have experienced the ludicrous 'hokey-cokey management' practised for the last two and a half years at TVR.
I find Gaffer's view particularly perplexing - wake up woman TVR mamnagement have caused the problems for staff NOT PHers pointing out the deficiencies.
Ricardo
I see your point
KirstM said:
As much as I would like to agree with the original post, I think Claire is right in that it wouldn't be fair to line the next lot of TVR workers up for a fall.
Sorry to nitpick, but I don't think the phrase "TVR workers" is appropriate for the future. Think of these terms, "luxury", "lifestyle", brand". Think Nike etc, merely lifestyle companies that don't actually produce anything directly (outsourcing, welcome to pure capitalism) ...
Ricardo Bertone said:
Might work for trainers and clothes - doesn't work for complex engineered products like performance cars IMO.
Ricardo
Isn't the Boxster assembled in Scandinavia? Ricardo
Whatever happens will be interesting (although I'm still sticking to my crude car that was made by the seaside oop north in this country
), to make cars externally (ie outsourcing), must have a huge set-up cost? Personally I think there is a limit to how much you can charge for a car made with steel tubes and fibreglass, but we will see !
Am just making this up as I go along, but reckon I've the gist correct...
I think my whole point was from a compassionate P.O.V. I truly do not care if the oxo cubes and the smellyoilskin fail. I wouldn't feel guilty about keeping their antics of the last few years clearly in the public eye. I would be able to live with myself and I would be able to sleep at night.
I wouldn't however, wish for anyone employed directly or contracted by the muppets, to suffer the same disgusting treatment that the Blackpool workforce have had to endure.
In my eyes, a TVR has always been a hand-built to customer specification British Sportscar. Unfortunately it appears this definition has been made redundant. It makes me sad as so many could see it happening for so long and nothing was done to stop it. I am not a business person, I don't think the way business people do & I can only speak from an emotional stand point.
I wouldn't however, wish for anyone employed directly or contracted by the muppets, to suffer the same disgusting treatment that the Blackpool workforce have had to endure.
In my eyes, a TVR has always been a hand-built to customer specification British Sportscar. Unfortunately it appears this definition has been made redundant. It makes me sad as so many could see it happening for so long and nothing was done to stop it. I am not a business person, I don't think the way business people do & I can only speak from an emotional stand point.
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