How will this news affect the used car market?
Discussion
cutlerp said:
Are there any previos examples to go by?
Yep...I bought a Rover 75 for 'Family' motoring whose value a week before they folded was (approx) £5k - 2 weeks after Rover's trip to the wall it was £3.5k!
Then I bought a TVR.....hmmm.....I see a pattern emerging....now where's my nearest Porsche dealer
I doubt it will make a blind bit of difference to the older cars. The newer ones it may depress their values - a little. But only if TVR don't keep going. If they do I wouldn't be surprised if they went UP - as TVRs production numbers will be lower and the cars will be even more exclusive.
Sadly I think its likely their values will simply reduce gently...I don't think anyone will be picking up a dirt cheap Sagaris anytime soon.
Sadly I think its likely their values will simply reduce gently...I don't think anyone will be picking up a dirt cheap Sagaris anytime soon.
As long as there are places I can take my car to fixed/serviced, I'm happy, no intention of getting rid for a long while (and I used to have a new car every year a few years ago!) I bought my car for MY enjoyment, and that is an investment that has paid out record dividends! 
>> Edited by chris watton on Wednesday 26th April 14:56
>> Edited by chris watton on Wednesday 26th April 14:56
At worst I can only see it affecting non-Rover V8 based engine cars as the RV8 cars are entirely maintainable outside the manufacturer support network. What can't be bought can be fabricated.
If TVR really does relocate abroad and continue operations, I can't see a long term effect (maybe short term due to transient uncertainty of spares supply) - it's if, when the smoke screen clears, there is no TVR as we no it that things might get 'interesting'. Even then there are specialists on hand. It only takes someone to secure the rights to the proprietry parts design/manufacture - which some would argue could be a lucrative business - to tool up and produce spares.
If TVR really does relocate abroad and continue operations, I can't see a long term effect (maybe short term due to transient uncertainty of spares supply) - it's if, when the smoke screen clears, there is no TVR as we no it that things might get 'interesting'. Even then there are specialists on hand. It only takes someone to secure the rights to the proprietry parts design/manufacture - which some would argue could be a lucrative business - to tool up and produce spares.
Gazboy said:
At worst I can only see it affecting non-Rover V8 based engine cars as the RV8 cars are entirely maintainable outside the manufacturer support network. What can't be bought can be fabricated.
Can body panels/clamshells be sourced outside of TVR? What about hoods and center panels for the roofs, and the rear screens? That's a point, what about the windscreen and windows?
body panels/clamshells: yes
hoods/rear screens : fabricated by trimmer
center panels for the roofs: pass - but such a rarity to replace, s/h market could provide
windscreen and windows: not actually made by TVR so shouldn't be an issue
griffter said:
At worst I can only see it affecting non-Rover V8 based engine cars as the RV8 cars are entirely maintainable outside the manufacturer support network. What can't be bought can be fabricated.
If TVR really does relocate abroad and continue operations, I can't see a long term effect (maybe short term due to transient uncertainty of spares supply) - it's if, when the smoke screen clears, there is no TVR as we no it that things might get 'interesting'. Even then there are specialists on hand. It only takes someone to secure the rights to the proprietry parts design/manufacture - which some would argue could be a lucrative business - to tool up and produce spares.
I cant speak for the Speed 6 engined cars, but the view of most independents is that all AJP8 spares can be sources directly from the suppliers, in some cases it will be easier with TVR out of the picture.
I agree with the AJP V8 suggestion. I think the market will slow a little but then confidence will return very shortly. IF TVR Power (for example) get to distribute and control parts for all out of production models then I suspect my cerb will become cheaper and easier to maintain. Certainly I dont know of any parts on my car (Cerbera) that cant be bought or manufactured or repaired outside of TVR (although I think windscreens are currently hard to get hold of BUT This is easily sorted if we know TVR wont supply anymore). So I am very optimistic re my Cerb.
I would also suggest that the same logic can be applied to S6 cars (but that is a guess).
I would also suggest that the same logic can be applied to S6 cars (but that is a guess).
cutlerp said:
How do you all think the news of TVR relocating will affect the used car market?
Are there any previos examples to go by?
Jensen, Marcos to name a couple.
The comment about the Rover losing £1500 in a week is a tad odd. I've got all my old "glasses guides" I can't see a noticeable dip in any price at any particular month.
Unless your on about the dealers profit margin, in which case the BMW's in the dealership over the road from me, are losing £6000 a minute
RUSSELLM said:
How do you all think the news of TVR relocating will affect the used car market?
Are there any previos examples to go by?
The comment about the Rover losing £1500 in a week is a tad odd. I've got all my old "glasses guides" I can't see a noticeable dip in any price at any particular month.
Firstly, I didn't say 'a week' - I said 3 weeks - but it was over the course of the protracted 'will-they wont-they' survive shenanigans going on at the time - so nearer 6-8 weeks is the period I'm talking about.
Secondly, Glasses is not always 'on the ball' - ask any dealership salesman. Its a guide, but real life overtakes glasses when things like a manufacturer going tits-up happen. Glasses gets over-ridden by dealership sales managers frequently when it's not 'in-tune' with what's happening on-the-ground.
Unfortunately, at the point of a car manufacturer imploding, prices get driven down rapidly by various factors not the least of which is the publics perception of why they went to the wall (ie un-reliability, poor build quality etc etc) and that together with the worry over the future availability of parts impacts greatly on their residual value - well certainly in the case of the standard Rover 75 model which had 'issues' prior to this (well reported on BBC Watchdog).
I can tell you that the value of the Rover 75 plummeted almost overnight to the point where 6 months ago I was told by a salesman (when trying to part-ex it for my TVR) that they wouldn't want a Rover on their forecourt.
Sadly, and I hope I'm wrong here cos I just bought one, TVR's recent reputation vis-a-vis reliability is on a par with Rovers just prior to their demise.
IM said:
Sadly, and I hope I'm wrong here cos I just bought one, TVR's recent reputation vis-a-vis reliability is on a par with Rovers just prior to their demise.
On the plus side, TVR's reputation hasn't got any worse of late...if anything, with 3 year warranty's TVR's reputation is probably as good now or better than it's ever been
I bought my TVR three years ago, going in to it thinking, "these look nice, they're fast, rare, but not Volvo relaible"
Nothing has changed that outlook, from that day to this.
What is TVR's reputation now by the way ?
Is it any different to anything it's ever been ?
Well I just bought another TVR, and I've still got my Rover that's covered 80,000 miles for me in the last 3 years, and worth F-all.
She passed the MOT last month at no expense (again) though, and got me to Birmingham and back yesterday at 40 plus mpg, in the outside lane.
Looking at MGZS180s now - CHEAP thrills !
RUSSELLM said:
What is TVR's reputation now by the way ?
Is it any different to anything it's ever been ?
Well, when considering buying one I approached various people, I have always worked in the motor trade and currently work in the motorsport trade so I had lots of, shall we say, 'informed' opinions given to me - whether I wanted them or not.
About half of these were of the "Un-reliable, will never be out of the garage, will cost you a fortune to maintain" variety whilst the other half were saying "Yeah, great, go for it, very fast, don't listen to the knockers, beautiful cars".
The point I'm making here is that when bad news of this type hits the general media the people saying the later diminish whilst the people saying the former increase.
So the majority consensus soon becomes "I wouldn't buy one mate".
This inevitably hits the residual values of the cars, how much so remains to be seen - but don't be surprised if it's quite a whack.
Even in worst case scenario, I don't beleive the value of older RV8 cars will be affected one jot. They are already out of production and effectively no longer supported by the factory, and they sold all the spares to Dom at TVR Power. As already mentioned, aftermarket is already taking up the slack for these cars, and the source vehicles for many of the parts are widely known now.
The TVR engined cars is another matter, but at least one outfit already rebuild the S6 to original (ie not TVR) spec, so MAYBE the same would apply, and these cars are already taking a beating secondhand because of the engines rep.
Personally I'd reckon the RV8 engined cars will fare better if the worst happens, because big RV8 engines are available from a large number of sources. There may even be a knock on effect of the RV8 cars becoming more desirable secondhand than the S6 cars - if TVR closes the stories will say the S6 engine problems were responsible for its demise, which doesn't exactly make them attractive in the absence of factory support.
The TVR engined cars is another matter, but at least one outfit already rebuild the S6 to original (ie not TVR) spec, so MAYBE the same would apply, and these cars are already taking a beating secondhand because of the engines rep.
Personally I'd reckon the RV8 engined cars will fare better if the worst happens, because big RV8 engines are available from a large number of sources. There may even be a knock on effect of the RV8 cars becoming more desirable secondhand than the S6 cars - if TVR closes the stories will say the S6 engine problems were responsible for its demise, which doesn't exactly make them attractive in the absence of factory support.
I think its going to make ajp and s6 engined cars very hard to sell.
How would go you about getting a replacement instrument binacle for a Tuscan or getting your s6 engine rebuilt under tvr warranty etc.
I can see Griffs and Chimps being in demand, subject to all components being available such as chassis, wishbones etc.
Bennno
How would go you about getting a replacement instrument binacle for a Tuscan or getting your s6 engine rebuilt under tvr warranty etc.
I can see Griffs and Chimps being in demand, subject to all components being available such as chassis, wishbones etc.
Bennno
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