Mapped Ignition in the RV8, who's running this? Thoughts?
Discussion
Hi all
This is probably gonna be the last in a lengthly expenditure in my quest to optimise the Griff. MA has my Omex 150 and trigger assembly ready and waiting; I just gotta fund it.
The motor has followed the usual mod' route of twin Jenvy plenum, H404 cam, ACT 1 5/8" ex manifolds, MA EPROM fuelling chip, silicone induction tube etc, and as much as is reasonably possible to keep the charge cool.
I understand the theoretical benefits of MI systems as currently my fuelling has been governed to where the bob weights in my dizzy are throwing the sparks - yea, pretty much anywhere. No doubt the rolling road plot will bear out my belief.
What I really want to know is how MI feels on the road. Does the motor feel smoother? Is the response to the right hand pedal much enhanced? Is the extension of the torque curve noticeable? What most impressed?
So, I'd be grateful to those who've taken this option to share your thoughts with me.
Thankyou, you're a Top Bunch
This is probably gonna be the last in a lengthly expenditure in my quest to optimise the Griff. MA has my Omex 150 and trigger assembly ready and waiting; I just gotta fund it.
The motor has followed the usual mod' route of twin Jenvy plenum, H404 cam, ACT 1 5/8" ex manifolds, MA EPROM fuelling chip, silicone induction tube etc, and as much as is reasonably possible to keep the charge cool.
I understand the theoretical benefits of MI systems as currently my fuelling has been governed to where the bob weights in my dizzy are throwing the sparks - yea, pretty much anywhere. No doubt the rolling road plot will bear out my belief.
What I really want to know is how MI feels on the road. Does the motor feel smoother? Is the response to the right hand pedal much enhanced? Is the extension of the torque curve noticeable? What most impressed?
So, I'd be grateful to those who've taken this option to share your thoughts with me.
Thankyou, you're a Top Bunch
I think if you check the search function for the Griff you will find quite a lot of stuff on this subject. Motec seemed favourite from memory.
I looked at the Emerald solution as Dave Walker is not far from where Iive and what he does not know about ECU's ain't worth knowing.
some peolpe have simply used a crank sensor and dumped the dizzy, but left everything else standard.
Check threads on Mark Adams as he's the man for fully mapped RV8 ECU's.
Richard
I looked at the Emerald solution as Dave Walker is not far from where Iive and what he does not know about ECU's ain't worth knowing.
some peolpe have simply used a crank sensor and dumped the dizzy, but left everything else standard.
Check threads on Mark Adams as he's the man for fully mapped RV8 ECU's.
Richard
Yup, thank's you two.
It's Mark Adams who has the kit in for me should I go the Omex route and I've spoken to him at some length as to its worth. I know there are various systems out there, with, no doubt, pretty similar results (and disimilar cost, but I aint wantin' to start ECU wars 2).
I just wanted some 'seat-of-the-pants' feedback from those using this stuff. There have been past threads on the matter but not of recent, so, I thought I'd ask afresh as no doubt there will be some recent installs with users keeping their thoughts all to themselves.
It's Mark Adams who has the kit in for me should I go the Omex route and I've spoken to him at some length as to its worth. I know there are various systems out there, with, no doubt, pretty similar results (and disimilar cost, but I aint wantin' to start ECU wars 2).
I just wanted some 'seat-of-the-pants' feedback from those using this stuff. There have been past threads on the matter but not of recent, so, I thought I'd ask afresh as no doubt there will be some recent installs with users keeping their thoughts all to themselves.
I'm running a dizzyless ( 2 ford coil packs instead) Emerald ECU on my rover and its excellent, you can put the spark exactly where you want it, and so pick up a load more part throttle torque, it'll reduce the need to change down just put your foot down and it pulls, plus you can pump the spark in where its needed with no risk of running into detonation as the load and speed increases, so it'll give a more stable idle and an engein that a lot harder to stall
Matt
Matt
Thank's Matt; and to those postin' off site.
It'd seem that there are more options out there than of not so long ago. I'd intended to keep the dizzy just to point the sparks toward the correct cylinder as opposed to going fully solid-state which can get expensive.
But, as suspected, and from those running MI, it's the obvious way to complete what has up to now been bolt-on upgrades. Everything done to this point is reversable: no capacity increase; no machining.
I think that in the new year I'm going to be once again talking to those that can provide an off-the-shelf solution that can be plotted in conjunction with my requirement for the fuel remap. This in itself may limit my options as that can only be done by one or two; dunno. I'll certainly post the results of my option.
Anyway, any more thoughts gratefully received.
It'd seem that there are more options out there than of not so long ago. I'd intended to keep the dizzy just to point the sparks toward the correct cylinder as opposed to going fully solid-state which can get expensive.
But, as suspected, and from those running MI, it's the obvious way to complete what has up to now been bolt-on upgrades. Everything done to this point is reversable: no capacity increase; no machining.
I think that in the new year I'm going to be once again talking to those that can provide an off-the-shelf solution that can be plotted in conjunction with my requirement for the fuel remap. This in itself may limit my options as that can only be done by one or two; dunno. I'll certainly post the results of my option.
Anyway, any more thoughts gratefully received.
Not got mine going yet, but I agree fully solid state is the way to go. I'll be keeping the dizzy, but only so I can use the hall sensor as a cam sync signal...
Having played with mapped ignition on quite a few cars now, it's easier to tweak to suit the other mods than anything else.
Having played with mapped ignition on quite a few cars now, it's easier to tweak to suit the other mods than anything else.
Apologies only just seen this thread.
I have the exact arrangement you are considering, one of the first MA did. The dizzy stays as it provides the cam timing/trigger, it still provides the distribution as the rotor is in the right(ish) place anyway, it also allows you to revert back whenever you want.
My motor would make about 215-220 RWP; 260bhp fly max with the dizzy but at the expense of detonation at high temps and or shite petrol, so it was backed off to give the car about 240bhp fly i.e. a compromise as all bobbin weighted advance curve devices will always need to have to do.
With the fully mapped ignition it now makes 230bhp RWP about 270-280 fly, which is about it for a 4ltr without more serious engine mods. The Torque figures are fairly similar at around 275lbs.
However that is half the story, the main differnce is its ability to spin up (rev) regardless of gear or revs, which it does quiet happily all the way to the limiter without the usual RV8 wheezes at 5K+rpm.
I am pretty used to it now and take it for granted. It was only when last year I blew a fuze that disabled the 3D I knoew though, I had to revert back to the dizzy, a simple change over of leads/sockets btw.
By feck it was like getting into a 1ltr diesel eurobox, no apparent power and certainly no swift throtttle response or the abilty to freely rev. You know what they say about 'you don't know what you have until its gone', well I can only agree 
.
Mine was pretty much the first Mark had done on a Tiv and a lot of time (and my money) went into getting it right. tbh I think he has learnt a few more subtle tricks since mine was last done an there maybe a little more to come should I spend out on the car, we were even hopeful at one point of getting it to knock on the door of 300bhp .
I still have a little shunting at low revs 1K8rpm, but a lot better than it was, that may well be the engine spec I don't know.
Agree with the sentiment that, all things being equal, a fully distributorless 3D ignition system has to be the ultimate way to go. However if when I sell my car it's silly money time, I'll plug the dizzy back in and remove the system and sell it on.
H
I have the exact arrangement you are considering, one of the first MA did. The dizzy stays as it provides the cam timing/trigger, it still provides the distribution as the rotor is in the right(ish) place anyway, it also allows you to revert back whenever you want.
My motor would make about 215-220 RWP; 260bhp fly max with the dizzy but at the expense of detonation at high temps and or shite petrol, so it was backed off to give the car about 240bhp fly i.e. a compromise as all bobbin weighted advance curve devices will always need to have to do.
With the fully mapped ignition it now makes 230bhp RWP about 270-280 fly, which is about it for a 4ltr without more serious engine mods. The Torque figures are fairly similar at around 275lbs.
However that is half the story, the main differnce is its ability to spin up (rev) regardless of gear or revs, which it does quiet happily all the way to the limiter without the usual RV8 wheezes at 5K+rpm.
I am pretty used to it now and take it for granted. It was only when last year I blew a fuze that disabled the 3D I knoew though, I had to revert back to the dizzy, a simple change over of leads/sockets btw.
By feck it was like getting into a 1ltr diesel eurobox, no apparent power and certainly no swift throtttle response or the abilty to freely rev. You know what they say about 'you don't know what you have until its gone', well I can only agree . Mine was pretty much the first Mark had done on a Tiv and a lot of time (and my money
) went into getting it right. tbh I think he has learnt a few more subtle tricks since mine was last done an there maybe a little more to come should I spend out on the car, we were even hopeful at one point of getting it to knock on the door of 300bhp . I still have a little shunting at low revs 1K8rpm, but a lot better than it was, that may well be the engine spec I don't know.
Agree with the sentiment that, all things being equal, a fully distributorless 3D ignition system has to be the ultimate way to go. However if when I sell my car it's silly money time, I'll plug the dizzy back in and remove the system and sell it on
. H
The spec of my engine is as follows:
94.0 Bore std crank, rover block slightly decked to bring pistons flush
Very ported heads and combustion chambers with bronze guides, twin springs , h. duty pushrods, 10.5:1 CR
Grp A Ø 45mm trumpets with enlarged throttle body and increased volume plenum chamber
Plenum isolator
Lightened flywheel
Emerald ECU with Sequential injection and 4 coil drivers so dizzyless and all the other latest goodies (idle speed control, Closed loop, data logging etc)
Last dynoed about 2 years ago at Emerald and made 263 Flywheel / 217 at the wheels
and will shortly be up for sale...
94.0 Bore std crank, rover block slightly decked to bring pistons flush
Very ported heads and combustion chambers with bronze guides, twin springs , h. duty pushrods, 10.5:1 CR
Grp A Ø 45mm trumpets with enlarged throttle body and increased volume plenum chamber
Plenum isolator
Lightened flywheel
Emerald ECU with Sequential injection and 4 coil drivers so dizzyless and all the other latest goodies (idle speed control, Closed loop, data logging etc)
Last dynoed about 2 years ago at Emerald and made 263 Flywheel / 217 at the wheels
and will shortly be up for sale...
Thought I'd better resurect this topic and post my conclusion. Oh, and I'm only doin' it for a bit of fun and not Dynowar Shootout 3.
The mapped ignition system fitted was the Omex 150. It is taking a signal from a transducer bolted to the timing cover and receives a cue from a trigger wheel attached behind the crank pulley. An air temp sensor is plumbed in just upstream of the plenum providing further information to the box-o-tricks. Sure it was expensive and yes, I know that there may be others available and some in development...o.k:
The graph shows my previous plot (pre Omex)with the latest overlaid. It is highly improbable that all of the increase can be attributed to the Omex as between plots a pair of Timmy 2sheds (ACT/JP) manifolds had been fitted. Before mapping the ignition however we did a run using the Dizzy and the ACT/JP's showed a 9lb ft increase for much of the midrange. Bear in mind that no fueling tweaks had been made to get the best from these items; they also replaced Non-Reversal-Cone manifolds so clearly Tims/JP's manifolds are grunt worthy items. Anyway, and through whatever means, when running the Omex,I think that the largest torque increase was in the measure of 27lb ft which is quite a gain.
From a seat of the pants point of view, when blipping the throttle there is a considerable increase in the speed at which the revs pick up; far more so than from any other of the add-on upgrades carried out thus far. Of course it's much more fun being mobile and when so, the motor feels more urgent and stronger. When on the airfield...aherm...100 to 120 in top gear comes up very rapidly indeed.
Was it worth it? I reckon so, especially with the improved fuel ecconomy it should pay for itself after doing a couple of lightyears. ;-)
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