emissions requirements in Eire
Discussion
Hi all, I'm really struggling finding out what emissions limits a 1997 cerbera would have to meet in southern ireland. Does anyone know for sure?
Over here we have a relaxed lambda limit, but not sure if that applies anywhere else. I have a cerbera in which is owned by a customer in eire, but he hasn't driven it because 1) it barely ran anyway and 2) neither of us know the emissions limits - it needs to be able to legitimately pass otherwise it's an expensive ornament over there. The owner has asked of the authorities but they don't seem to know, or want to disclose, any info!
Google isn't really turning anything up either.
Are there any NCT (their MOT) inspectors around to clarify this? Or any GTVR owners who have successfully achieved a pass and have a test cert with the emissions values on?
any help appreciated.
Over here we have a relaxed lambda limit, but not sure if that applies anywhere else. I have a cerbera in which is owned by a customer in eire, but he hasn't driven it because 1) it barely ran anyway and 2) neither of us know the emissions limits - it needs to be able to legitimately pass otherwise it's an expensive ornament over there. The owner has asked of the authorities but they don't seem to know, or want to disclose, any info!
Google isn't really turning anything up either.
Are there any NCT (their MOT) inspectors around to clarify this? Or any GTVR owners who have successfully achieved a pass and have a test cert with the emissions values on?
any help appreciated.
Hello,
I can't speak directly for R. of Ireland. But I think it has to comply with the emission values of a 1997 petrol car according to EC law.
In my experience this is possible with a healthy AJP engine.
The engine must be warm and should be run in and sometimes you need a little patience when measuring the emissions. It certainly helps to find an enthusiastic tester.
There used to be a south-irish owner of a yellow Cerb around, but I forgot his nickname.
I can't speak directly for R. of Ireland. But I think it has to comply with the emission values of a 1997 petrol car according to EC law.
In my experience this is possible with a healthy AJP engine.
The engine must be warm and should be run in and sometimes you need a little patience when measuring the emissions. It certainly helps to find an enthusiastic tester.
There used to be a south-irish owner of a yellow Cerb around, but I forgot his nickname.
The answers are here:
https://www.ncts.ie/media/z55p1lpj/vir.pdf
If you look at that sample form, you will see the limits.
What is called a "low idle" is what the UK calls the "natural idle test" i.e. normal tickover, about 750 rpm. Ireland allows a CO of 0.5%. The UK allows 0.3%, so, Ireland has already given your customer a little bit of extra help! HC has to be 0%.
"High idle" is what the UK calls the "fast idle test". It's 2500 rpm, (the UK is 2500 to 3000 rpm). The lambda reading is identical to the UK: 0.97 to 1.03. The CO cannot be more than 0.3% (again that is more generous than the UK's 0.2%). The HC cannot be more than 200 ppm, which is the same as the UK.
There is also a bit of extra help. If the car fails, then the tester has to hold the revs at 2500 rpm (or the revs specified by the manufacturer (TVR probably never specified anything and you might struggle to find that information now anyway)) for 3 minutes, and then see if it passes. Then let it return to the "low idle" (if it failed that) and see if it passes that test.
There is another bit of extra help, although you might struggle to find the information, unless Les Edgar's operation will supply it. If the manufacturers figures are higher than the maximum numbers allowed by the NCT, then providing that the figures are within TVR's numbers, then the car will pass. For example, where the NCT expects the CO to be no more than 0.3%. If TVR said that 0.5% was normal, providing you can prove that, and your customer's car is not more than 0.5%, it will then pass, even though that would normally be a fail on the NCT numbers!
If you need any help getting the car down to those numbers, then there are already loads on tips on the Cerbera threads on here over the years, because the UK numbers are the same or stricter than the Irish limits.
This is the current NCT test manual:
https://www.ncts.ie/media/aidher01/nct_manual_2023...
Your customer might want to read it all and check that it won't fail on anything else. Page 140 deals with emissions. The rules group the cars into pre and post 1994, (with special rules for old Minis and some Metros and a Suzuki Cultra!)
(And in typical bureaucratic idiocracy, hybrid cars do not need to be tested! (I drove a Subaru hybrid last year and however gentle with it I was, it would only move about 1 foot from the traffic lights before the engine fired up, so it was running on the petrol engine, revving away with it's CVT box producing emissions, 99.9% of the time, but in Ireland that would be exempt from an NCT emissions test! You couldn't make it up! Even if your customer's TVR fails every limit, given the likely annual mileage of it, it will still be cleaner than that Subaru!)
https://www.ncts.ie/media/z55p1lpj/vir.pdf
If you look at that sample form, you will see the limits.
What is called a "low idle" is what the UK calls the "natural idle test" i.e. normal tickover, about 750 rpm. Ireland allows a CO of 0.5%. The UK allows 0.3%, so, Ireland has already given your customer a little bit of extra help! HC has to be 0%.
"High idle" is what the UK calls the "fast idle test". It's 2500 rpm, (the UK is 2500 to 3000 rpm). The lambda reading is identical to the UK: 0.97 to 1.03. The CO cannot be more than 0.3% (again that is more generous than the UK's 0.2%). The HC cannot be more than 200 ppm, which is the same as the UK.
There is also a bit of extra help. If the car fails, then the tester has to hold the revs at 2500 rpm (or the revs specified by the manufacturer (TVR probably never specified anything and you might struggle to find that information now anyway)) for 3 minutes, and then see if it passes. Then let it return to the "low idle" (if it failed that) and see if it passes that test.
There is another bit of extra help, although you might struggle to find the information, unless Les Edgar's operation will supply it. If the manufacturers figures are higher than the maximum numbers allowed by the NCT, then providing that the figures are within TVR's numbers, then the car will pass. For example, where the NCT expects the CO to be no more than 0.3%. If TVR said that 0.5% was normal, providing you can prove that, and your customer's car is not more than 0.5%, it will then pass, even though that would normally be a fail on the NCT numbers!
If you need any help getting the car down to those numbers, then there are already loads on tips on the Cerbera threads on here over the years, because the UK numbers are the same or stricter than the Irish limits.
This is the current NCT test manual:
https://www.ncts.ie/media/aidher01/nct_manual_2023...
Your customer might want to read it all and check that it won't fail on anything else. Page 140 deals with emissions. The rules group the cars into pre and post 1994, (with special rules for old Minis and some Metros and a Suzuki Cultra!)
(And in typical bureaucratic idiocracy, hybrid cars do not need to be tested! (I drove a Subaru hybrid last year and however gentle with it I was, it would only move about 1 foot from the traffic lights before the engine fired up, so it was running on the petrol engine, revving away with it's CVT box producing emissions, 99.9% of the time, but in Ireland that would be exempt from an NCT emissions test! You couldn't make it up! Even if your customer's TVR fails every limit, given the likely annual mileage of it, it will still be cleaner than that Subaru!)
I find the NCTS are quite flexible with specialist machines. There are a number of Cerbs in the South without issue.
Never had an issue with the Tuscan. Best to chat with the tester before it goes through. Also, best to do a bit of Googling as some test centres have a better reputation than others been willing to assist customers.
Never had an issue with the Tuscan. Best to chat with the tester before it goes through. Also, best to do a bit of Googling as some test centres have a better reputation than others been willing to assist customers.
IrishTusc said:
I find the NCTS are quite flexible with specialist machines. There are a number of Cerbs in the South without issue.
Never had an issue with the Tuscan. Best to chat with the tester before it goes through. Also, best to do a bit of Googling as some test centres have a better reputation than others been willing to assist customers.
That's interesting .. the owner seemed to think the tests were absolutely rigid with no bending of the rules, hence the reason this particular car hasn't been on the road for about 4 years ? Do we know who owns the other cerbs in southern ireland ? I was under the mistaken impression this was the only one.Never had an issue with the Tuscan. Best to chat with the tester before it goes through. Also, best to do a bit of Googling as some test centres have a better reputation than others been willing to assist customers.
spitfire4v8 said:
IrishTusc said:
I find the NCTS are quite flexible with specialist machines. There are a number of Cerbs in the South without issue.
Never had an issue with the Tuscan. Best to chat with the tester before it goes through. Also, best to do a bit of Googling as some test centres have a better reputation than others been willing to assist customers.
That's interesting .. the owner seemed to think the tests were absolutely rigid with no bending of the rules, hence the reason this particular car hasn't been on the road for about 4 years ? Do we know who owns the other cerbs in southern ireland ? I was under the mistaken impression this was the only one.Never had an issue with the Tuscan. Best to chat with the tester before it goes through. Also, best to do a bit of Googling as some test centres have a better reputation than others been willing to assist customers.
spitfire4v8 said:
IrishTusc said:
I find the NCTS are quite flexible with specialist machines. There are a number of Cerbs in the South without issue.
Never had an issue with the Tuscan. Best to chat with the tester before it goes through. Also, best to do a bit of Googling as some test centres have a better reputation than others been willing to assist customers.
That's interesting .. the owner seemed to think the tests were absolutely rigid with no bending of the rules, hence the reason this particular car hasn't been on the road for about 4 years ? Do we know who owns the other cerbs in southern ireland ? I was under the mistaken impression this was the only one.Never had an issue with the Tuscan. Best to chat with the tester before it goes through. Also, best to do a bit of Googling as some test centres have a better reputation than others been willing to assist customers.
TVR Car Club is small but active, so the best advice is to contact them on Facebook. I've not been involved for a while due to work commitments, but happy to share the contact email of the RO if you PM me.
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