Discussion
Just pulled this extract out from http://motoring.iafrica.com/carsinaction/shootout/443420.htm
And apparently, the T350 took 8.5 seconds to get from 120kph to 160kph???? thats darn sloow, even for a poor climate for an NA car... :( the noble took 3.9secs????!!!!
[quote=IAFRICA]
"Britain's motor industry today produces Nissans, Toyotas and BMWs in its super-efficient plants and Jaguars, Land Rovers and Aston Martins for Ford, Minis for BMW, Rovers for Tata and MGs for Shanghai...
So, the real British motor industry is today confined to the likes of Noble and TVR - two of Britain's brilliant specialist carmakers responsible for the magnificent cars on these pages. Or is it?
No, not even the specialists are all British any more - but like the rest of the UK industry, these companies have also adapted, amalgamated or sold off to outside investors in order to survive and thrive, and these two are no exception.
The Noble, believe it or not, while it's designed in the UK, is built right here in South Africa. And no, TVR isn't all British any longer either - it's now owned by a young Russian billionaire by the name of Smolensky.
But there's no denying it - no matter who owns or builds these so called 'British' specialist supercars, they're still an awesome prospect to anyone looking for the ultimate performance bargain...
So, the subject of this month's supercar shootout may not be purebred British, but believe me, they're both brilliant...
The Noble, as you'll no doubt read in detail further on, was designed and developed by English entrepreneur, engineer and one-time racer Lee Noble, whose cars are built for him by specialist sportscar manufacturer Jimmy Price's Superformance right here in Port Elizabeth.
But like just about everything else about these two, their history is quite diverse, too. TVR had been UK sportscar maker for quite some time - until, that is, young Smolensky acquired the company last year.
Technically, this pair is Ying and Yang, too. The front-engined TVR boasts a TVR-built normally aspirated 3.5-litre 261kW 390Nm straight-six mill driving the rear wheels via a 5-speed gearbox, while the rear-mid-engined Noble is shoved along by a Ford-derived 320kW 510Nm 3-litre biturbo V6 through a 6-speed trannie to the rear wheels.
And while their chassis may share quite similar means of construction albeit that one is front and the other rear engined, the philosophies of how the two makers go about finishing their cars is completely different, too.
The Noble is a no-holds-barred driving machine - it's beautifully built and finished, but it's nowhere near as beautifully rendered as the dramatically detailed and styled TVR...
The pearlescent grey/white TVR T350C (C for coupe) in our images is one of the wildest looking cars you'll ever see - if certain much criticised car designers rather chose the likes of TVR's dramatic styling solutions in place of the questionable lines they did, their cars would be hailed as dramatic, dynamic and inspiring rather than ugly or awful. The stunning TVR is a styling masterstroke - eye candy indeed.
The bright yellow Noble, on the other hand, is just as impressive, but its more functional - it isn't as beautiful, but man, it just means business.
Access to both was a bit of a battle for our bigger testers, but they reckon the Noble was by far the easier of the two to climb into and out of, and while the T-top on the TVR made a difference, the Noble again scored for interior space and ergonomics around equally inspiring driving positions. That said, the TVR is again far more stylish inside - it seemed to be designed rather than just carefully put together to serve a purpose...
On the road, they were rather different, too. Vitally, the Noble's twin-turbos make up for lost air density on the Reef and it thus enjoys a natural performance advantage up here. So much so that while we found the extremely direct TVR needing considerable attention while on the boil thanks to sharp handling and direct brakes, the Noble's monster attributes demanded complete focus and concentration when driven hard.
The T350C is old school direct and responsive, but it prefers a neutral stance and reports progress well through that straight-six howl. The Noble in contrast becomes lunatic when asked, commanding absolute respect.
Its rorty V6 is punctuated by the scream of boost and pop-off, not to mention tortured rear tyres that don't always seem to be able to fully accommodate that urge as it propels you as though you're strapped to a rocket. It's the ultimate thrill to drive flat out - but be warned, if you're not an expert at the wheel, don't take this car beyond your capabilities - this one will certainly test your human limits...
The Noble clearly is the performance king here - its 4.3 0-100, 12.8 quarter mile at 184km/h, 2.9 and 3.9 second roll-on 80-120 and 120-160km/h acceleration respectively and a 300km/h top whack conspire to once again ensure that we continue that Cars in Action tradition of breaking performance records in our birthday issue every year.
But at R820 000, the Noble is 200 grand more expensive than the TVR, which besides being less powerful at the outset also suffers the full effect of altitude sickness. So the T350R's 5.9-second 0-100, 14.4 second quarter at 173kmh, 8.5 and 8.6 roll-ons respectively and 280km/h max are not too shabby indeed - especially if the TVR's Batman looks make as much difference to you as they do to us...
So while these two are clearly aimed at the same kind of total enthusiast owner, it will be two rather different people who buy each. The TVR driver will be more style driven, while the Noble man will likely be more of an out and out driver type, but both will clearly be satisfied.
They'll have to put up with being compromised by a rather blatant lack of practicality - in the Noble in particular - and by a car that's cramped and even more difficult to get in and out of in the TVR. But when it comes to the total, uncompromised thrill of driving, there will be little to beat these two from any quarter - especially at the price.
But the most important thing about them is that they're still essentially British sportscars at the end of the day. Considering what they cost, what they are and how they go, even if they're built in Africa or the company is owned by Russians, if the Noble M400 and TVR T350C are anything to go by, the British sportscar is still very much the bargain performer it's always been.
And yes, the Empire has struck back - its motor industry is still on top of the world - the Poms certainly still know how to make cars - no matter who owns the companies or where they're built..."[/quote]
And apparently, the T350 took 8.5 seconds to get from 120kph to 160kph???? thats darn sloow, even for a poor climate for an NA car... :( the noble took 3.9secs????!!!!
[quote=IAFRICA]
"Britain's motor industry today produces Nissans, Toyotas and BMWs in its super-efficient plants and Jaguars, Land Rovers and Aston Martins for Ford, Minis for BMW, Rovers for Tata and MGs for Shanghai...
So, the real British motor industry is today confined to the likes of Noble and TVR - two of Britain's brilliant specialist carmakers responsible for the magnificent cars on these pages. Or is it?
No, not even the specialists are all British any more - but like the rest of the UK industry, these companies have also adapted, amalgamated or sold off to outside investors in order to survive and thrive, and these two are no exception.
The Noble, believe it or not, while it's designed in the UK, is built right here in South Africa. And no, TVR isn't all British any longer either - it's now owned by a young Russian billionaire by the name of Smolensky.
But there's no denying it - no matter who owns or builds these so called 'British' specialist supercars, they're still an awesome prospect to anyone looking for the ultimate performance bargain...
So, the subject of this month's supercar shootout may not be purebred British, but believe me, they're both brilliant...
The Noble, as you'll no doubt read in detail further on, was designed and developed by English entrepreneur, engineer and one-time racer Lee Noble, whose cars are built for him by specialist sportscar manufacturer Jimmy Price's Superformance right here in Port Elizabeth.
But like just about everything else about these two, their history is quite diverse, too. TVR had been UK sportscar maker for quite some time - until, that is, young Smolensky acquired the company last year.
Technically, this pair is Ying and Yang, too. The front-engined TVR boasts a TVR-built normally aspirated 3.5-litre 261kW 390Nm straight-six mill driving the rear wheels via a 5-speed gearbox, while the rear-mid-engined Noble is shoved along by a Ford-derived 320kW 510Nm 3-litre biturbo V6 through a 6-speed trannie to the rear wheels.
And while their chassis may share quite similar means of construction albeit that one is front and the other rear engined, the philosophies of how the two makers go about finishing their cars is completely different, too.
The Noble is a no-holds-barred driving machine - it's beautifully built and finished, but it's nowhere near as beautifully rendered as the dramatically detailed and styled TVR...
The pearlescent grey/white TVR T350C (C for coupe) in our images is one of the wildest looking cars you'll ever see - if certain much criticised car designers rather chose the likes of TVR's dramatic styling solutions in place of the questionable lines they did, their cars would be hailed as dramatic, dynamic and inspiring rather than ugly or awful. The stunning TVR is a styling masterstroke - eye candy indeed.
The bright yellow Noble, on the other hand, is just as impressive, but its more functional - it isn't as beautiful, but man, it just means business.
Access to both was a bit of a battle for our bigger testers, but they reckon the Noble was by far the easier of the two to climb into and out of, and while the T-top on the TVR made a difference, the Noble again scored for interior space and ergonomics around equally inspiring driving positions. That said, the TVR is again far more stylish inside - it seemed to be designed rather than just carefully put together to serve a purpose...
On the road, they were rather different, too. Vitally, the Noble's twin-turbos make up for lost air density on the Reef and it thus enjoys a natural performance advantage up here. So much so that while we found the extremely direct TVR needing considerable attention while on the boil thanks to sharp handling and direct brakes, the Noble's monster attributes demanded complete focus and concentration when driven hard.
The T350C is old school direct and responsive, but it prefers a neutral stance and reports progress well through that straight-six howl. The Noble in contrast becomes lunatic when asked, commanding absolute respect.
Its rorty V6 is punctuated by the scream of boost and pop-off, not to mention tortured rear tyres that don't always seem to be able to fully accommodate that urge as it propels you as though you're strapped to a rocket. It's the ultimate thrill to drive flat out - but be warned, if you're not an expert at the wheel, don't take this car beyond your capabilities - this one will certainly test your human limits...
The Noble clearly is the performance king here - its 4.3 0-100, 12.8 quarter mile at 184km/h, 2.9 and 3.9 second roll-on 80-120 and 120-160km/h acceleration respectively and a 300km/h top whack conspire to once again ensure that we continue that Cars in Action tradition of breaking performance records in our birthday issue every year.
But at R820 000, the Noble is 200 grand more expensive than the TVR, which besides being less powerful at the outset also suffers the full effect of altitude sickness. So the T350R's 5.9-second 0-100, 14.4 second quarter at 173kmh, 8.5 and 8.6 roll-ons respectively and 280km/h max are not too shabby indeed - especially if the TVR's Batman looks make as much difference to you as they do to us...
So while these two are clearly aimed at the same kind of total enthusiast owner, it will be two rather different people who buy each. The TVR driver will be more style driven, while the Noble man will likely be more of an out and out driver type, but both will clearly be satisfied.
They'll have to put up with being compromised by a rather blatant lack of practicality - in the Noble in particular - and by a car that's cramped and even more difficult to get in and out of in the TVR. But when it comes to the total, uncompromised thrill of driving, there will be little to beat these two from any quarter - especially at the price.
But the most important thing about them is that they're still essentially British sportscars at the end of the day. Considering what they cost, what they are and how they go, even if they're built in Africa or the company is owned by Russians, if the Noble M400 and TVR T350C are anything to go by, the British sportscar is still very much the bargain performer it's always been.
And yes, the Empire has struck back - its motor industry is still on top of the world - the Poms certainly still know how to make cars - no matter who owns the companies or where they're built..."[/quote]
Within reason the turbo will maintain the same boost even though the air is thinner. Normally the boost is limited by the wastegate, the turbo is capable of much higher boost otherwise, so the Noble would still develop the same power as at sealevel.
The TVR OTOH whould drop in power relative to the air density at sealevel. Probably 20% down.
The TVR OTOH whould drop in power relative to the air density at sealevel. Probably 20% down.
jodypress said:
I am not 100% sure, but I think it has something to do with the thinner air being VERY good for the turbo'ed cars.
i always remember with my turbo cars, that the colder it was the faster they went
maybe someone with some expertise can enlighten us.
The trouble is colder air is more dense. So your turbo cars would in theory be having a nightmare in this environment. Altitude and Hot climate = very thin air. So maybe it is somthing else?
If you go inland from Port Elizabeth you get into some pretty high country. If they were running the test at 4000ft the air density would be roughly 10% lower than at sea level. If we guessed that the air temp was 20C hotter in SA than in the UK, this would further reduce the air density by about 5%. So a total air density drop of 15% might be possible. 15% less air means 15% less fuel being burned all other things equal. And the higher ambient temperature also means you can extract less energy from the combustion. I would guess that is probably worth another 5% or so.
So I reckon the engine might produce 20% less power running at 4000ft on a hot day, and that would lead to the 0-100kph taking about 25% longer than usual.
Surprising how quickly it adds up, though 4000ft and 20C may be a bit extreme.
From what the other have said, the wategate would mean the air density difference would have a minimal influence on the turbo car, so it would only suffer from the higher ambient temperature.
>> Edited by ATG on Saturday 6th August 18:27
So I reckon the engine might produce 20% less power running at 4000ft on a hot day, and that would lead to the 0-100kph taking about 25% longer than usual.
Surprising how quickly it adds up, though 4000ft and 20C may be a bit extreme.
From what the other have said, the wategate would mean the air density difference would have a minimal influence on the turbo car, so it would only suffer from the higher ambient temperature.
>> Edited by ATG on Saturday 6th August 18:27
The stupidly misinformed website said:
And no, TVR isn't all British any longer either - it's now owned by a young Russian billionaire by the name of Smolensky.
Thought it was Smolenski?
And I know someone from Greece who lives in my village... as soon as he finishes paying off his mortgage the house will officially become Greek then?
Dave.
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