Tuscan versus Sagaris
Discussion
I’m new to Tuscan ownership, having recently bought a 2007 registered wavey dash Targa. Totally in love with it and is the ‘go to car’ over the 720S. The Mac is sat there looking a little neglected at the mo.
My question: Considering the late Tuscans shared a lot of the Sagaris components and engine, why does the Sag command such a price premium over the Tuscan? They had a similar list price and the Tuscan is arguably more practical with its large boot and removable lid.
My question: Considering the late Tuscans shared a lot of the Sagaris components and engine, why does the Sag command such a price premium over the Tuscan? They had a similar list price and the Tuscan is arguably more practical with its large boot and removable lid.
TVR Wannabe said:
I’m new to Tuscan ownership, having recently bought a 2007 registered wavey dash Targa. Totally in love with it and is the ‘go to car’ over the 720S. The Mac is sat there looking a little neglected at the mo.
My question: Considering the late Tuscans shared a lot of the Sagaris components and engine, why does the Sag command such a price premium over the Tuscan? They had a similar list price and the Tuscan is arguably more practical with its large boot and removable lid.
Rarer, better handling, looks a bit more modernMy question: Considering the late Tuscans shared a lot of the Sagaris components and engine, why does the Sag command such a price premium over the Tuscan? They had a similar list price and the Tuscan is arguably more practical with its large boot and removable lid.
Better handling, hardtop and looks. Obvious on track.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaZnYEjBk1I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaZnYEjBk1I
Edited by Englishman on Saturday 3rd April 13:34
Englishman said:
Better handling, hardtop and looks.
Handling maybe, but I picked the Tuscan over the Sagaris because of the looks and targa top. I suppose that’s the subjective part of choosing. I think the Sagaris is pig uglyI guess I was curious as to what are the technical benefits for the large premium.
I would dispute a lot of of what's said 
.
Firstly a Tuscan wavey dash (Targa or Convertible) is far rarer than a Sagaris ... FACT !!!
I've owned both and I find a correctly setup Tuscan comparable with the Sagaris for handling (I know the track is wider but for road use not sure it makes much difference) .. and with Nitrons and Michelins on the Tuscan and a 4.5SS, I might even say superior ... But I drive like an old man unlike John S ... and I know John tried many tweaks with his convertible.
I think the price difference has always been about the "Sag presence" , it is an eye catcher... people would just stop and take photos of mine if I was stopped at traffic lights ... a Sag is an attention seeker without doubt ...
I sold my Sag rather than the convertible because :-
i) I would get more money for it and I needed the money at the time
ii) i spec'ed my convertible and the sag was never really "my own"
iii) I felt much more claustrophobic in the Sag , the low roof and fit of the car
After all the Tuscan Convertible WAS TVRs last production car and as James May referred to it "TVRs Last Swan Song"
One thing I didn't like with the Sag was over 120 leptons , I thought the bonnet would fly off , I even stopped once to check it was secure
.Firstly a Tuscan wavey dash (Targa or Convertible) is far rarer than a Sagaris ... FACT !!!
I've owned both and I find a correctly setup Tuscan comparable with the Sagaris for handling (I know the track is wider but for road use not sure it makes much difference) .. and with Nitrons and Michelins on the Tuscan and a 4.5SS, I might even say superior ... But I drive like an old man unlike John S
... and I know John tried many tweaks with his convertible.I think the price difference has always been about the "Sag presence" , it is an eye catcher... people would just stop and take photos of mine if I was stopped at traffic lights ... a Sag is an attention seeker without doubt ...
I sold my Sag rather than the convertible because :-
i) I would get more money for it and I needed the money at the time
ii) i spec'ed my convertible and the sag was never really "my own"
iii) I felt much more claustrophobic in the Sag , the low roof and fit of the car
After all the Tuscan Convertible WAS TVRs last production car and as James May referred to it "TVRs Last Swan Song"
One thing I didn't like with the Sag was over 120 leptons , I thought the bonnet would fly off , I even stopped once to check it was secure
Edited by glow worm on Saturday 3rd April 20:35
There is no objective reason that the Sag is worth significantly more than a Tuscan. They do handle better in my experience, but they are not almost twice as good, which is what the financials would break it down to.
The T350T is actually the correct choice. They handle better than any Tuscan, cost half the money of a Sag, and still offer the wind in the hair experience.
The T350T is actually the correct choice. They handle better than any Tuscan, cost half the money of a Sag, and still offer the wind in the hair experience.
robsco said:
There is no objective reason that the Sag is worth significantly more than a Tuscan. They do handle better in my experience, but they are not almost twice as good, which is what the financials would break it down to.
The T350T is actually the correct choice. They handle better than any Tuscan, cost half the money of a Sag, and still offer the wind in the hair experience.
But IMO are bland from the frontThe T350T is actually the correct choice. They handle better than any Tuscan, cost half the money of a Sag, and still offer the wind in the hair experience.
glow worm said:
I would dispute a lot of of what's said .
Firstly a Tuscan wavey dash (Targa or Convertible) is far rarer than a Sagaris ... FACT !!!
I've owned both and I find a correctly setup Tuscan comparable with the Sagaris for handling (I know the track is wider but for road use not sure it makes much difference) .. and with Nitrons and Michelins on the Tuscan and a 4.5SS, I might even say superior ... But I drive like an old man unlike John S ... and I know John tried many tweaks with his convertible.
I think the price difference has always been about the "Sag presence" , it is an eye catcher... people would just stop and take photos of mine if I was stopped at traffic lights ... a Sag is an attention seeker without doubt ...
I sold my Sag rather than the convertible because :-
i) I would get more money for it and I needed the money at the time
ii) i spec'ed my convertible and the sag was never really "my own"
iii) I felt much more claustrophobic in the Sag , the low roof and fit of the car
After all the Tuscan Convertible WAS TVRs last production car and as James May referred to it "TVRs Last Swan Song"
One thing I didn't like with the Sag was over 120 leptons , I thought the bonnet would fly off , I even stopped once to check it was secure
Tuscan rear screen departs at about 50mph with roof off. A number of times I found my self searching ditches for my rear window. .Firstly a Tuscan wavey dash (Targa or Convertible) is far rarer than a Sagaris ... FACT !!!
I've owned both and I find a correctly setup Tuscan comparable with the Sagaris for handling (I know the track is wider but for road use not sure it makes much difference) .. and with Nitrons and Michelins on the Tuscan and a 4.5SS, I might even say superior ... But I drive like an old man unlike John S
... and I know John tried many tweaks with his convertible.I think the price difference has always been about the "Sag presence" , it is an eye catcher... people would just stop and take photos of mine if I was stopped at traffic lights ... a Sag is an attention seeker without doubt ...
I sold my Sag rather than the convertible because :-
i) I would get more money for it and I needed the money at the time
ii) i spec'ed my convertible and the sag was never really "my own"
iii) I felt much more claustrophobic in the Sag , the low roof and fit of the car
After all the Tuscan Convertible WAS TVRs last production car and as James May referred to it "TVRs Last Swan Song"
One thing I didn't like with the Sag was over 120 leptons , I thought the bonnet would fly off , I even stopped once to check it was secure
Edited by glow worm on Saturday 3rd April 20:35
I think a lot of people don't differentiate between a Tuscan Mk1 and Tuscan MK2 or Convertible. The comparison of original Harvey Bailey and Eibachs/Bilsteins is a world of difference, the springs rates are very different, the work done by Ben Lang on MK2 suspension made a big difference ,and I find even stiffer fronts improved it more. The MK1 steering rack is much "faster" with different worm gear ratio , which makes I think makes it feel twitchy .IMHO of course
PS I've had no trouble loosing the rear screen of my convertible and of course a Tuscan is faster than a Sagaris
PS I've had no trouble loosing the rear screen of my convertible
and of course a Tuscan is faster than a Sagaris Edited by glow worm on Sunday 4th April 09:41
LeroyLoser said:
Our of curiosity, how quick is a well set up t350 or sag on cup2s vs a gt3 or rs?
Say a medium power circuit, something like cadwell?
You can’t really compare them. One has a massively rigid monocoque and has been developed for track driving, the other an old ladder chassis.Say a medium power circuit, something like cadwell?
Out right performance on a track isn’t really what a TVR is about. There’s tons of things now that will run rings around it. It’s more about the experience, if you’re after something very analogue, raw, and simple with a dash of comfort then there’s not much else out there.
However I think the top gear power lap list tells you everything you need to know. A 997 gt3 rs is about 5 seconds a lap quicker than a sagaris.
Quoting from Top Gear results again, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Top_Gear_tes... the Sag beats the Tuscan by 0.2 sec, both well off the pace these days!
They are both good cars, just for different occasions IMHO (I have both). On a lovely sunny day I choose the Tuscan Mk2, roof off rear window out. For track days and simply getting from a to b quickly, the Sagaris is more satisfying. It is much more rigid with the built in roll cage and together with the suspension changes, it means cornering is far more predictable/smooth. In terms of performance in a straight line, I'm not a good enough driver to notice any difference.
Yes the Sagaris bonnet does flex at high speed, but it was still attached at over 160mph on a FightingTorque airfield day. And yes, I wouldn't suggest driving a Tuscan (targa) with the roof off, but rear screen in, at high spreed as (a) there is a terrible booming in the cabin and (b) the screen has been known to come out in this configuration.
When it comes to looks everyone has on opinion. Personally I really like both, but if I had to choose one over the other it would be the Sagaris every time.
They are both good cars, just for different occasions IMHO (I have both). On a lovely sunny day I choose the Tuscan Mk2, roof off rear window out. For track days and simply getting from a to b quickly, the Sagaris is more satisfying. It is much more rigid with the built in roll cage and together with the suspension changes, it means cornering is far more predictable/smooth. In terms of performance in a straight line, I'm not a good enough driver to notice any difference.
Yes the Sagaris bonnet does flex at high speed, but it was still attached at over 160mph on a FightingTorque airfield day. And yes, I wouldn't suggest driving a Tuscan (targa) with the roof off, but rear screen in, at high spreed as (a) there is a terrible booming in the cabin and (b) the screen has been known to come out in this configuration.
When it comes to looks everyone has on opinion. Personally I really like both, but if I had to choose one over the other it would be the Sagaris every time.
Englishman said:
Quoting from Top Gear results again, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Top_Gear_tes... the Sag beats the Tuscan by 0.2 sec, both well off the pace these days.
The non-S Tuscan 2 knackered press car .. I had it on loan once 
m4tti said:
LeroyLoser said:
Our of curiosity, how quick is a well set up t350 or sag on cup2s vs a gt3 or rs?
Say a medium power circuit, something like cadwell?
You can’t really compare them. One has a massively rigid monocoque and has been developed for track driving, the other an old ladder chassis.Say a medium power circuit, something like cadwell?
Out right performance on a track isn’t really what a TVR is about. There’s tons of things now that will run rings around it. It’s more about the experience, if you’re after something very analogue, raw, and simple with a dash of comfort then there’s not much else out there.
However I think the top gear power lap list tells you everything you need to know. A 997 gt3 rs is about 5 seconds a lap quicker than a sagaris.
I wandered how quick tvrs quickest was vs todays, 5.0 secs is big, i guess todays cars have moved on big time, my AMG GTC matches GT3s quite well but ive not come across a sagaris etc yet so will be interesting, thought TVRs lack of weight might make it a yo yo battle with the straights but i guess our super sticky 325s make up for things a fair bit.
Would still love a tvr i think, for as you say, a more analogue experience inc. A gearstick, i miss that a bit...
incidentally, if you’re looking for the TVR experience in a modern car then you should take out an AMG GT, the similarities are uncanny.
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